Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[NextLevel]

I did it! I bought an Innerforce Layer ALC! Last blade I ever buy, beg, borrow or steal!

Ever heard the story of the scorpion and the frog....

 

[banbekas]

Participated in a tournament over the past two days and reached Quarterfinal with my trusted ITC Premier XR.

Right before the quarterfinal game, I didn't know what came over me, but I decided to change my blade with a brand new in box Loki K5.

Took off the rubbers from XR, only to realize that the dimensions were didifferent. I had no choice but to press the rubbers to cover up the whole blade's face.

How was the result? It was a complete disaster. Loops, pushes, serves, blocks all went long. I thought I could handle it easily, but I was over my head this time.

 

[NextLevel]

Participated in a tournament over the past two days and reaches Quarterfinal with my trusted ITC Premier XR.

Right before the quarterfinal game, I didn't know what came over me, but I decided to change my blade with a brand new in box Loki K5.

Took off the rubbers from XR, only to realize that the dimensions were didifferent. I had no choice but to press the rubbers to cover up the whole blade's face.

How was the result? It was a complete disaster. Loops, pushes, serves, blocks all went long. I thought I could handle it easily, but I was over my head this time.

You went full tournament EJ during a single elimination. Never go full tournament EJ during a single elimination unless your prior blade has you playing like you just feel lucky - then you can be sure you would have lost no matter what you used lol.

 

[banbekas]

You went full tournament EJ during a single elimination. Never go full tournament EJ during a single elimination unless your prior blade has you playing like you just feel lucky - then you can be sure you would have lost no matter what you used lol.

My thought process at that time was that since I had used a 5-ply blade before, this one wouldn’t be difficult to adjust to. Everything was fine in the warm-up. Loops were easy to execute, and counterloops were a breeze.

It wasn’t until the first loop kill that everything went downhill. It was a third-ball attack to the backhand where I pivoted and tried to end the point. You can say it’s the bread and butter of my game. The keyword here is tried. The XR never failed me there. With the K5, it went long. Like, very long.

I was like, okay, it was flexier than the XR. I just needed to control the power a little bit and close the blade angle. The second one went into the net. That was when doubts crept into my mind.

I was so full of doubt that I went full safety first. No attacks, just pushes and blocks. Well, the pushes also went long and were easy to attack. The blocks were also dodgy. Even my friend was flabbergasted by how messed up my game was. I think mentally, I gave up when I lost the first set. The only consolation for me was that my opponent went on to get second place.

Personally, I'd have defeated him if I hadn't change my blade. I got the idea on how to play him, but couldn't implement it in the game because I had given up already. Spoken like a sore loser, I know lol.

Btw, I was so furious of losing that game I threw and broke Loki Telson Speed. That 60% discount blade became the outlet for my outburst, lol.

 

[NextLevel]

My thought process at that time was that since I had used a 5-ply blade before, this one wouldn’t be difficult to adjust to. Everything was fine in the warm-up. Loops were easy to execute, and counterloops were a breeze.

It wasn’t until the first loop kill that everything went downhill. It was a third-ball attack to the backhand where I pivoted and tried to end the point. You can say it’s the bread and butter of my game. The keyword here is tried. The XR never failed me there. With the K5, it went long. Like, very long.

I was like, okay, it was flexier than the XR. I just needed to control the power a little bit and close the blade angle. The second one went into the net. That was when doubts crept into my mind.

I was so full of doubt that I went full safety first. No attacks, just pushes and blocks. Well, the pushes also went long and were easy to attack. The blocks were also dodgy. Even my friend was flabbergasted by how messed up my game was. I think mentally, I gave up when I lost the first set. The only consolation for me was that my opponent went on to get second place.

Personally, I'd have defeated him if I hadn't change my blade. I got the idea on how to play him, but couldn't implement it in the game because I had given up already. Spoken like a sore loser, I know lol.

Btw, I was so furious of losing that game I threw and broke Loki Telson Speed. That 60% discount blade became the outlet for my outburst, lol.

You tried to fix what wasn't broken. So you broke what wasn't fixing.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Participated in a tournament over the past two days and reaches Quarterfinal with my trusted ITC Premier XR.

Right before the quarterfinal game, I didn't know what came over me, but I decided to change my blade with a brand new in box Loki K5.

Took off the rubbers from XR, only to realize that the dimensions were didifferent. I had no choice but to press the rubbers to cover up the whole blade's face.

How was the result? It was a complete disaster. Loops, pushes, serves, blocks all went long. I thought I could handle it easily, but I was over my head this time.

the gods of TT tried to give you a lesson but you won't learn from it and will be EJ'ing again

 

[banbekas]

the gods of TT tried to give you a lesson but you won't learn from it and will be EJ'ing again

The temptation is just too much. For now I'm gonna lay low with the equipment due to the equipment ban. First lady's order.

 

[dingyibvs]

Had a long club session Monday, started off with a coaching session. I haven't been training my FH basically at all since the start of the year, and unfortunately starting to fall back to some old habits. Timing was off, I was hooking with my racket, and I was raising the shoulder. Ugh. Took me like 15 minutes just to get back to good form. Guess I need to include some more FH training in my regimen.

A few minutes into my BH training I started attempting to incorporate my most recent revelation, which is having the racket come back with the ball instead of waiting for the ball. The coach immediately noticed the change and praised how good it looked, but he couldn't tell what exactly changed. Reviewing the video, I can't either lol. It just looks...different. I guess that's why it's so hard to copy pros' motion on YouTube videos.

After that I played some singles matches, with the goal of applying this new technique. Usually when I try to apply new technique (just developed over the past week or so!) in matches it's disastrous, but it actually went fairly well this time. I think it's because most of the application was in opening loops, where I have more time to think since pushes are a bit slower. It did fall apart during rallies, but somewhat unfortunately I didn't get to do a lot of BH rallies because the BH opening loop was so damn effective that it resulted in a lot of direct points. The FH was rather weak most of the day relatively speaking, partly because my lack of practice but I think probably partly also because my mind was focused on the BH.

Tuesday I had a practice session with my training partner in my garage. I did a lot more FH this time around, and by the end I'm fully recovered. By the end of the BH training I was also fully capable of utilizing my new form along with footwork as well! Gonna take a while before it's applicable to game situation, but it typically doesn't take long on the BH side. I feel like I only need to get more hitting into my BH now to be complete with my BH training.

 

[dingyibvs]

Over the past week I've been mostly focused on the basics of BH and FH loop. I realized that I can't just stop practicing FH and expect the new form to stick, so I did a good amount of FH practice this week with my training partner. I basically did a condensed version of my entire learning process, focusing on one portion of the body at a time from the ground up: legs/hips, core, arm, then wrist/racket angle, hitting first, then looping, and lastly focusing more on footwork.

For the BH, I was stuck a bit in how to hit into the racket more. I mean, I can hit it, but unlike the FH side I couldn't easily add brushing to the hit and more importantly, I didn't get the feeling of holding and slinging the ball. Whether hitting or brushing, contact always felt short. I think by the end I was able to do better. I think the issue was I was too focused on keeping the elbow stable and using external rotation to generate power that I forgot the forearm extension and supination part of the stroke. Without the extension my stroke was very left-to-right and not enough forward, and without supination I couldn't effectively hit into the rubber/blade. By the end of the training it felt good, but I'll need to be able to replicate it for an entire session before I can call it a success.

I also did some limit testing re: my newly added technique of bringing the racket back along with the ball. I wanted to see just how little of it I can do while still ensuring good synergy and relaxation before hitting the ball. Turns out I can use very little of it, I just need to do it right before the ball arrives at me. Essentially I'd think of the BH stroke not as starting with the forward movement, but starting with a bit of backward movement before snapping forward. It can be pretty subtle, which is probably why it's very hard to tell on video.

I also tried out my Viscaria with T05FX on the BH side. It was sooooo much easier to hit into the rubber, with whatever crap technique I could do it. Every shot generated the characteristic Tenergy pop and sound, every shot felt good, and they had fantastic land rate. Q968 with D09c generated better quality, but it was much, much more unforgiving. That's really one of my issues re: people suggesting using easier to use equipment. If you're someone like me who doesn't really care about missing shots and care far more about improving, something like the Vis/T05FX can really do you a great disservice because it just doesn't let you know when you're using the wrong technique. My BH technique is now good enough that even my coach thinks it looks fine, but I know something is still off because my equipment tells me so.

 

[latej]

I also did some limit testing re: my newly added technique of bringing the racket back along with the ball. I wanted to see just how little of it I can do while still ensuring good synergy and relaxation before hitting the ball. Turns out I can use very little of it, I just need to do it right before the ball arrives at me. Essentially I'd think of the BH stroke not as starting with the forward movement, but starting with a bit of backward movement before snapping forward. It can be pretty subtle, which is probably why it's very hard to tell on video.

I think you can also see that on some players, e.g. Cotton, Sora. It's like the hand is more up also, reducing danger of edge-hit...

 

[dingyibvs]

I think you can also see that on some players, e.g. Cotton, Sora. It's like the hand is more up also, reducing danger of edge-hit...

Yea, yesterday at practice a higher level player was advising me to do that. He said what I think is a forward stroke is actually fairly upward. I'm tinkering a lot with my BH to try to find the optimal form. It took me a long time on the FH side but I finally managed it, wonder if it's gonna take just as long on the BH side?

Right now I'm also trying to find the best way to hit more and brush less. Obviously that would involve a more open racket, but yesterday I think I found a trick that I might have missed before. I was trying to open the racket more by pronating my forearm, but I think a better way is to internally rotate my shoulder a bit more instead.

My practice partner yesterday brought a TB ALC special edition with Zyre 2.7 on both sides. This was the 2nd time I tried out Zyre. Both as an user and on the other end. With Zyre it seems to work really well with smaller motions, fast and spinny. The stroke needs to be a bit more brushing compared to H3 or else the ball will just fly away. OTOH it also doesn't reward bigger strokes, using one doesn't seem to offer any advantage as the ball flies off the racket too quickly. When looping against blocks from the Zyre, the ball coming back has significantly more spin than I expect, forcing me to raise my elbow often to get over the ball as it jumps at me. When blocking against loops from the Zyre it seems to be significantly more powerful than my opponent's usual setup which is Golden Vis + boosted Donic J1. It's harder to block, but not as hard as when he looped with my blade (Q968 + boosted H3) which has similar power but a lower trajectory.

 

[dingyibvs]

The higher level player gave me quite a few advice on Friday, and I'm still digesting them. I've been too busy at work this weekend to go play at the club this weekend, which is just as well, as I got to test out some of his other advice at home against the robot. One thing I think is helping me address a longstanding question re: my BH. My coach has told me quite a few times that I need to keep the racket higher against topspins, but I've always found it very uncomfortable. My practice partner helped me figure it out. It turns out that I've been holding the racket higher only in the ready position, but then drop it on the backswing. He told me that I need to backswing higher, more toward the bottom of my chest rather than toward my lower abs. Testing it out at home it really helped my contact with the ball!

Is this the missing piece to my BH? I really don't know. I felt that way many times on the FH side, but time and again I found that I was still missing something, until I finally got it many months later. So who knows? It did work extremely well against the robot. Combining the new way to keep loose, keeping the racket more open, and now this higher backswing, I was finally able to get the feeling of hitting into the blade yet still retaining that holding the ball and slinging it forward feeling. Before I could only have one of the two, either hitting into the blade but feeling like a slap with short contact, or a overly brushy loop that holds and slings the ball but doesn't feel like I hit into the blade.

 

[NextLevel]

So I detoured for a while into the land of EJ and concluded I should just use the setup in my profile and try to get better with it once I get coaching again. Now I am back to playing somewhat. I seem to have lost something on my balls and not sure what is driving the lost quality as I am struggling more with players I used to beat easily. But it could just as well be that my issues defending my middle are being exploited more.

One of the things I believe is a bit underestimated for developing faster movement is raw leg strength and flexibility. I think just playing table tennis doesn't help this even if you train footwork. So anything that has your each of your legs getting strong enough to lift your body easily is helpful, and if you already have this strength, it has good gains for your quickness and explosiveness. So things that get into single leg squats and lunges tend to have some benefit.

A lot of footwork that requires you to move and cover wide shots or even get out of the way of a ball to defend the middle require strength in each leg that allows it to push off and move the body repeatedly without fatigue. So practicing moving in squats and horse stances, even at whatever level you feel comfortable if not absolutely proper form, helps a ton. I think it has unlocked something that will help my table tennis significantly if I don't get injured.

The other thing I will continue to work on is getting my forehand as explosive as my backhand. A lot of it will come down to being able to use my fingers properly, I am switching to a thumb and finger focus and reducing the use of the lower three fingers not because it helps quality but because the lower three fingers promote tightness in the arm and I think the thumb and finger can get strong enough. I think playing with more speed will actually cost me some ratings points because speed is not my game. But I think with extra mobility, being able to hit fast topspins away from the table with more room for placement might offset this. Maybe when a guy with a table at home gets back from vacation and I can practice with spinsight, I will learn a thing or two.

Keep ponging everyone.

 

[NextLevel]

The higher level player gave me quite a few advice on Friday, and I'm still digesting them. I've been too busy at work this weekend to go play at the club this weekend, which is just as well, as I got to test out some of his other advice at home against the robot. One thing I think is helping me address a longstanding question re: my BH. My coach has told me quite a few times that I need to keep the racket higher against topspins, but I've always found it very uncomfortable. My practice partner helped me figure it out. It turns out that I've been holding the racket higher only in the ready position, but then drop it on the backswing. He told me that I need to backswing higher, more toward the bottom of my chest rather than toward my lower abs. Testing it out at home it really helped my contact with the ball!

Is this the missing piece to my BH? I really don't know. I felt that way many times on the FH side, but time and again I found that I was still missing something, until I finally got it many months later. So who knows? It did work extremely well against the robot. Combining the new way to keep loose, keeping the racket more open, and now this higher backswing, I was finally able to get the feeling of hitting into the blade yet still retaining that holding the ball and slinging it forward feeling. Before I could only have one of the two, either hitting into the blade but feeling like a slap with short contact, or a overly brushy loop that holds and slings the ball but doesn't feel like I hit into the blade.

Since you are fit. a lot of the backhand work comes from pronation/supination and you can always raise and lower your chest/elbow.

Oh, there is always something missing. Because a stroke is a mental model. And when you play a better player, something they do may intrigue you enough to make more changes.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

So I detoured for a while into the land of EJ and concluded I should just use the setup in my profile and try to get better with it once I get coaching again. Now I am back to playing somewhat. I seem to have lost something on my balls and not sure what is driving the lost quality as I am struggling more with players I used to beat easily. But it could just as well be that my issues defending my middle are being exploited more.

One of the things I believe is a bit underestimated for developing faster movement is raw leg strength and flexibility. I think just playing table tennis doesn't help this even if you train footwork. So anything that has your each of your legs getting strong enough to lift your body easily is helpful, and if you already have this strength, it has good gains for your quickness and explosiveness. So things that get into single leg squats and lunges tend to have some benefit.

A lot of footwork that requires you to move and cover wide shots or even get out of the way of a ball to defend the middle require strength in each leg that allows it to push off and move the body repeatedly without fatigue. So practicing moving in squats and horse stances, even at whatever level you feel comfortable if not absolutely proper form, helps a ton. I think it has unlocked something that will help my table tennis significantly if I don't get injured.

The other thing I will continue to work on is getting my forehand as explosive as my backhand. A lot of it will come down to being able to use my fingers properly, I am switching to a thumb and finger focus and reducing the use of the lower three fingers not because it helps quality but because the lower three fingers promote tightness in the arm and I think the thumb and finger can get strong enough. I think playing with more speed will actually cost me some ratings points because speed is not my game. But I think with extra mobility, being able to hit fast topspins away from the table with more room for placement might offset this. Maybe when a guy with a table at home gets back from vacation and I can practice with spinsight, I will learn a thing or two.

Keep ponging everyone.

- Andreas Levenko has a recent video about exercises to have a stronger body for TT, and yes it does include squats, lunges among others. check it

- it reminds me something very important that coach Xiao Han said in one of her videos i saw recently about receiving. She said our receiving problem is not (always) about not being able to read serves. Its about being too slow to react once we read the serve. and that we need strong ankle muscles. and shows some exercises to fix that. I'm personally reflecting on that.

- Zyre is very expensive ! as a Butterfly fan, im very tempted to use it, but i'm already playing so well with my Dignics i don't want to disrupt anything, especially with this price tag.

 

[Der_Echte]

So I detoured for a while into the land of EJ and concluded I should just use the setup in my profile and try to get better with it once I get coaching again. Now I am back to playing somewhat. I seem to have lost something on my balls and not sure what is driving the lost quality as I am struggling more with players I used to beat easily. But it could just as well be that my issues defending my middle are being exploited more.

One of the things I believe is a bit underestimated for developing faster movement is raw leg strength and flexibility. I think just playing table tennis doesn't help this even if you train footwork. So anything that has your each of your legs getting strong enough to lift your body easily is helpful, and if you already have this strength, it has good gains for your quickness and explosiveness. So things that get into single leg squats and lunges tend to have some benefit.

A lot of footwork that requires you to move and cover wide shots or even get out of the way of a ball to defend the middle require strength in each leg that allows it to push off and move the body repeatedly without fatigue. So practicing moving in squats and horse stances, even at whatever level you feel comfortable if not absolutely proper form, helps a ton. I think it has unlocked something that will help my table tennis significantly if I don't get injured.

The other thing I will continue to work on is getting my forehand as explosive as my backhand. A lot of it will come down to being able to use my fingers properly, I am switching to a thumb and finger focus and reducing the use of the lower three fingers not because it helps quality but because the lower three fingers promote tightness in the arm and I think the thumb and finger can get strong enough. I think playing with more speed will actually cost me some ratings points because speed is not my game. But I think with extra mobility, being able to hit fast topspins away from the table with more room for placement might offset this. Maybe when a guy with a table at home gets back from vacation and I can practice with spinsight, I will learn a thing or two.

Keep ponging everyone.

@NextLevel I may have to make a small trip to see you and convince you that your FH AND the BH can be deadly fast with some short stroke magic, timing, and impact, given you see what happened with opponent's impact.

 

[Der_Echte]

NL could be seriously deadly with 98% of the equipment he falls in love with.

 

[banbekas]

I also tried out my Viscaria with T05FX on the BH side. It was sooooo much easier to hit into the rubber, with whatever crap technique I could do it. Every shot generated the characteristic Tenergy pop and sound, every shot felt good, and they had fantastic land rate. Q968 with D09c generated better quality, but it was much, much more unforgiving. That's really one of my issues re: people suggesting using easier to use equipment. If you're someone like me who doesn't really care about missing shots and care far more about improving, something like the Vis/T05FX can really do you a great disservice because it just doesn't let you know when you're using the wrong technique. My BH technique is now good enough that even my coach thinks it looks fine, but I know something is still off because my equipment tells me so.

As someone who always advocates amateurs to use forgiving rubbers, I'd like to hear your opinion,as someone who is very big on improving, on what is the wrong technique and what is the best technique?

 

[dingyibvs]

As someone who always advocates amateurs to use forgiving rubbers, I'd like to hear your opinion,as someone who is very big on improving, on what is the wrong technique and what is the best technique?

An easy way to tell is actually just try using your same technique on a more difficult equipment. Does it still work, but just requires more power, or does it not work at all?

Note that very importantly, by working vs not working I don't mean whether the shot lands, but whether you can get that feeling of the ball digging into the blade and rubber and you slinging the ball forward. If you can still get it using your same technique, even if it requires so much power that you can't control it and/or you can't realistically get into position to use it in real game situations, then your technique is fine but the equipment is too hard for you to use. If you can't get that feeling no matter how hard you try, then your technique is lacking and the easier equipment is simply letting you get away with it.

 

[banbekas]

An easy way to tell is actually just try using your same technique on a more difficult equipment. Does it still work, but just requires more power, or does it not work at all?

Note that very importantly, by working vs not working I don't mean whether the shot lands, but whether you can get that feeling of the ball digging into the blade and rubber and you slinging the ball forward. If you can still get it using your same technique, even if it requires so much power that you can't control it and/or you can't realistically get into position to use it in real game situations, then your technique is fine but the equipment is too hard for you to use. If you can't get that feeling no matter how hard you try, then your technique is lacking and the easier equipment is simply letting you get away with it.

How do you define a more difficult equipment?

I have two blades left as of now. One is Premier XR, 5+2 with White Ash outer ply. The other is Loki K5, a 5 ply all-wood blade. In your opinion which one is more difficult blade between these two?

Loki K5 with STN and G1. Premier XR with G1 on both sides.

Say, blade. Which one is more difficult between outer-carbon or inner-carbon? Or stiff blade like Mazunov? Which one is more difficult between flexy blade or a stiff one?

Rubber, top line rubbers are they easy or difficult? Which one is easier to use Dignics family or Yinhe Mercury or H3?

I don't even want to jump to the last few sentences.