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Double Fish samples has arrived - what is your opinions?
- Thread starter Tony's Table Tennis
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indeed a very beatutiful box.I like the beautiful packaging of that Dragon Blade, I have to get one
it is for Dragon blade only (not a generic box that many brands use for many blades)
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The V40+ Volant balls got some good reviews in Germany at least on par with Nittaku Premium.
Imo DHS D(J)40+ (andro ZeroT) and DF V40+ are the best balls currently on the market. Maybe the Nittaku Premiums (NP) are slightly better selected regarding roundness compared to the standard D(J)40+ and V40+ balls but the NPs lack spin especially in humid conditions.
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At our club sits a donation pile free for anybody to use should we get some new people at club. One of these items is a blade with DoubleFish 8484 on it. It just sits in an open dusty box. Not cared for one bit. That topsheet is still just as tacky as any H3 the day it's fresh out of the package. It can pick a ball off the table easily.
I've searched for this rubber and it looks like it's just put on some of their premade paddles. Shame. Now the sponge I can tell is soft premade paddle trash but my goodness. That is the best topsheet ever.
I'd buy it all if they simply sold it on a normal run of the mill Chinese tacky firm sponge.
I've searched for this rubber and it looks like it's just put on some of their premade paddles. Shame. Now the sponge I can tell is soft premade paddle trash but my goodness. That is the best topsheet ever.
I'd buy it all if they simply sold it on a normal run of the mill Chinese tacky firm sponge.
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I have only used DF balls so far. I like the V40+ WTT.
I don't know anyone that uses DF rubbers or blade. It is odd to me that they don't really push for the blades until despite having Chen Qi, Liu Shiwen and Lin Gaoyuan, which are all quite popular athletes.
In terms of rubbers I was quite interested in the Polestar P as a H3 provincial alternative, but its price is a bit high. Also, do they have any colour rubbers?
I don't know anyone that uses DF rubbers or blade. It is odd to me that they don't really push for the blades until despite having Chen Qi, Liu Shiwen and Lin Gaoyuan, which are all quite popular athletes.
In terms of rubbers I was quite interested in the Polestar P as a H3 provincial alternative, but its price is a bit high. Also, do they have any colour rubbers?
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We've had this discussion. There's almost zero chance tung is being used in mass produced Chinese table tennis blades. That website is probably making the same translation error.
Tung tree is toxic to work with and you can't actually buy the lumber anywhere at scale. Google images of the tree itself, the trunk of the tree is too thin to be used as lumber. The commercial use of it is for its oil. Why cut down a skinny oil producing tree for crappy lumber that's toxic to work with?
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Colour rubbers - not at the moment
The Polestar P is really interesting, it is a super large sheet and would be ideal and super easy for oversized blade.
I didn’t measure it, but it was the largest block sheet I have ever come acrossed, and I’m pretty sure I have seem over hundreds of different rubbers.
I also noticed all the DF rubber topsheet is pretty difficult to cut with a blade
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I actually saw yesterday some NP balls with seam visible and feelable.
It was shocking to say the least. I thought maybe it was fakes or a qc failed batch that made the market.
It was shown to me by an umpire and that tournament had a lot of complaints for the NP being eggs…. First ever bad review I have heard of NP.
Otherwise, NP indeed are still the best balls
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In this thread: https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...s-red-arylate-carbon-what-do-you-think.32805/
Also, I forget that you are not a native English speaker. The use of "we" is colloquial here, so you specifically weren't a part of the discussion but the forum in general.
In any case, tung tree wood is not used in table tennis based on all available evidence.
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I knew that we is colloquial here, but since you said it twice.... I wanted to remind you, I never had that discussion with you, as you assume I have forgotten about the discussion lol.
I shared pictures from a blade expert who causes it different.
What did the other blade experts on this forum say about this? (include the Sanwei staff - I assume you pm her and asked?)
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As far as I know, all of the blade makers on this forum agree that tung isn't used in table tennis blades. I think it was hipnotic or Waki that first pointed out that the Acoustic had a kiri core and was mistakenly listed as "tung."
But why do you feel the need to appeal to authority? I think there's evidence enough already to determine for yourself. Do a google search for whether tung tree is used for lumber at all. The answer is pretty obvious if you consider a bit about how the lumber industry works.
Also, why are you so certain a guy on the internet with a page is a 'wood expert.' They can just be compiling facts found online. I've seen that page and that was my first impression. Compiling facts online doesnt make you an expert, or else we would have no problems with EmRatThich or zeio. I would think you'd be the first person to agree with that.
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well, since you have done your evidence collecting, and since that thread you posted is of Jan 2024, it would be common sense me to get clarity from a very helpful staff on Sanwei that is on the TTD forum very regularly.
why bother doing google search or guess work, when 1 click away, you can have some answer from the makers of the blade that you had spent some time to figure out about?
You could easily get confirmation to back your research, or maybe could get proven wrong. No matter what, there could be a strong answer right? and then add so much for blade lumber for the future of table tennis
That is why I think it is a good idea. Why not speak to someone with authority than to remain among few forum members only?
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Now you're being silly. This is literally an issue you weren't even aware of until 5 minutes ago and you're doggedly fighting against it to prove me wrong for what gain?well, since you have done your evidence collecting, and since that thread you posted is of Jan 2024, it would be common sense me to get clarity from a very helpful staff on Sanwei that is on the TTD forum very regularly.
why bother doing google search or guess work, when 1 click away, you can have some answer from the makers of the blade that you had spent some time to figure out about?
You could easily get confirmation to back your research, or maybe could get proven wrong. No matter what, there could be a strong answer right? and then add so much for blade lumber for the future of table tennis
That is why I think it is a good idea. Why not speak to someone with authority and to remain among few forum members only?
I didn't know you a lumber industry expert. I am sure not.
However, to say tung is poisonous, and shouldn't be used etc, then why is people working on the seed (the seed is poisonous, not the lumber)? care to help explain my quick question from a short google? (assuming you the expert)
Also why would you assume that Andrea knows anything about this blade. She is unable to talk about the products from the Chinese arm of Sanwei. The entire 75 series doesn't even exist from her POV because she's only representing Sanwei Sport (the outward facing international company), and that blade isn't listed in their line up.
Okay, instead of you not addressing any of the actual points I've been making and appealing to authority let's see how confident you are in your arguments and let's just bet on it. $100 that I'm correct that the wood used is a form of Paulownia. If it turns out to be vernicia fordii (tung) than you win $100. If it's neither nobody wins.
We can send a blade to hipnotic or waki to take a look. I'll even sweeten the odds. You only lose $75 to my $100 if I win. The less likely I am an expert, the better off for you right? I'll even let you up the stake to $750 to my $1000. How about it?
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i think you being silly now.
i already sent a message to DF for clarity.
That is how I work.
Take it as a professional approach or not, that is up to you.
so I assume you didn't try Andrea?
There is no other blades from them that have "tung" that you can quote?
Like you said, I had 5 mins knowledge of this issue and I have acted professionally already, you had how many mins and you haven't even tried proper channels?
It isn't about money or who is right, it is about using resources and not guessing or keyboard warrior research worker.
there is resources on TTD and I am a bit amazed on why you don't try Andrea?
It is like if Aruna is on TTD, I would then ask him about his issues, than guess around. I guess that is just me. I don't expect you to do the same, but I really don't understand why not ask Andrea. Should I go ask?
PS. that is also why I get closed to Pros - I start dialogues with them, including that of Aruna. They are also humans and most times, would answer
PS, I'm not arguing against you on Tung, just don't understand the logic on how you work with resources so near by, but you willing to spend money to send things to blade makers around the world? beats me... lol
my objective is simple - get clarity and if you are a dead end, then I will try other channels I have.
I have already read in that same thread you posted, that a user said tung is not related to kiri and you even liked the comment. So is it different, or the same? I really don't know.
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i think you being silly now.
i already sent a message to DF for clarity.
That is how I work.
Take it as a professional approach or not, that is up to you.
so I assume you didn't try Andrea?
There is no other blades from them that have "tung" that you can quote?
Like you said, I had 5 mins knowledge of this issue and I have acted professionally already, you had how many mins and you haven't even tried proper channels?
It isn't about money or who is right, it is about using resources and not guessing or keyboard warrior research worker.
there is resources on TTD and I am a bit amazed on why you don't try Andrea?
It is like if Aruna is on TTD, I would then ask him about his issues, than guess around. I guess that is just me. I don't expect you to do the same, but I really don't understand why not ask Andrea. Should I go ask?
PS. that is also why I get closed to Pros - I start dialogues with them, including that of Aruna. They are also humans and most times, would answer
PS, I'm not arguing against you on Tung, just don't understand the logic on how you work with resources so near by, but you willing to spend money to send things to blade makers around the world? beats me... lol
My first blade was a Nittaku Acoustic. I liked the feel of it a lot so that I ended up researching the "tung" wood at some point. I was even going to ask a blademaker at some point to copy it using "tung" as the core.
It turns out as hipnotic said that the core was kiri. This took me by surprise because I saw on countless threads online "tung wood" being thrown about like it was a real thing. Apparently, a falsehood or mistake can propagate over the internet and take on a life of it's own.
DF itself has listed the wood as "tung" and that's why you thought it was tung wood. In the thread I linked about the Sanwei Red ALC, they also listed it as "tung" and that's what spurred the conversation. Like I said, this is probably a translation error since Paulownia is called 'tong' over there. So if you're asking them if 'tong is tong' over there of course they'd say yes.
The question is whether it's paulownia or vernicia fordii (tung). And the only way to figure that out is to send it to someone who knows what paulownia looks like. It'll be hard to find to find someone that knows what tung wood actually looks like because nobody really cuts the tree down for lumber. Another reason you ask why if it's poisonous people use the oil. Well, it's easier to keep the tree intact and harvest the seeds and be careful with them rather than cutting and processing the lumber and having poisonous tree bits and sawdust go flying all about.
But no, let's focus on you being silly. The reason why I posted about the 'tung' thing is because I was personally fooled by something wrong on the internet. So I just dropped some info I researched since it might help counter some misinformation. It's what we do on the forums, share information we know about stuff we've learned. We don't have to be an expert on it, similar to how a table tennis sales rep isn't an expert on lumber either.
Instead of you just saying "interesting, I never heard of that" you go on a little rant about how the site was from a "wood expert" when there's nothing to suggest that. And then you heavily lean into the appeal to authority angle. "Who did you ask? Are you an expert?" This is bizarre behavior on a forum. It's akin to brokenball going off about his physics chops because someone dares give an impression about dwell time.
Honestly, I think you just hate to be corrected on something (even if it wasn't your fault you were just listing what wood it was) and so you decided to become super combative and lean into argumentative fallacies, now digging in your heels for some odd reason. Maybe you're position of an authority as a coach makes it hard for you to be corrected? It was a bizarre response so I urge you to look into why you reacted that way.
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I already explained my self and here it is again:
sanwei is on TTD, if it wasn't a sanwei blade, I wouldn't ask if you did some effort in finding out with Sanwei
my style is, if i have the resources, I will check with them.
there is nothing to hide and nothing to correct, as I didn't claim tung is correct or incorrect. Where did I say tung and kiri is different or debate against you?? that I am incorrect? you sure love fights and can't sit with common discussion or research work with experts?
PS, I did have 20 page data from blade experts and it listed both the woods in there.
I just copy and paste DF content to this thread. I didnt' bother go do any research on the blades, since I have no time to do so yet. There is over 20 blades I need to look at, other than the 2 samples in the photo.
I now also notice (while checking this tung issue) in one of my discussion with DF phoneix was 3k carbon, but on another file they sent to me (that I copy and past from), it has imitiation carbon. I still have a lot of questions to check with them and I will do so in due course.
so just think about it for a sec and talk about the matter than going personal insult? On the personal insult side - just so I can have one at you too.
I do think you are lazy for not asking Andrea to be honest. what is the worse answer you can get? a rejection or no reply? I get rejected by many too - ie Nittaku vice general manager rejected me few times.
do you fear asking "authority" as you put it?
so are you happy that DF now has confirmed with me? and the approach I did is constructive and good?
or should I kept the answer a secret and continue to have uncertainty around?
just think about it, on how many minutes I was involved with this issue, and what my goal was? and I actually got somewhere
my response was never about tung, but about how you think google with limited information supersedes asking "authority". but you stuck with tung and your years of misinformation,
but I am talking about resource usage for correct information.
maybe now you know for the future, you can always PM people (including me and Andrea) to check on technical information. like I said, what is the worse that can happen? there shouldn't be any fear or embarrassment for asking questions.
You can't my method of asking authority is silly - of which to me, not asking is silly!
so sorry if you think i'm fighting you on tung lol, but i'm not fighting you, but you sound like you loving and wishing for a fight and a bet, lol
I hope you delete your insults and remarks from this supposedly useful thread and I shall too.
PS. Other professionals on TTD that have access to product technical information includes Yogibear and Matt. There are so many you could of spoken to....
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Amongst my club-mates, Double Fish WTT balls are viewed favorably.
