Experience with some other Loki rubbers - Arthur China, GTX Pro (inc)

[mattlamperouge]

I actually had the chance to hit with the D09c at the end of last week and swapped rackets with my trainingpartner.
So yeah LAC has some characteristics that are comparable to D09c but i wouldnt say they are that similar.
- D09c has a higher throw than LAC
- Arc is nearly the same, at least really close to each other
- While LAC is bouncy for a chinese rubber it still feels way harder with low impact shots than D09c which is overall still more dynamic
- LAC does have a way stickier topsheet than D09c
- D09c surprisingly gives a better feedback and overall feel for its user, not by much but noticable.

Dont get me wrong here, because it could seem as many and huge differences, but they are not. The differences are there but not by huge margin. I even said jokingly to my mate that he could just get LAC and save a shitload money because these rubbers are somewhat close to each other.
So i see the point of Loki and they did a decent job here to present at least an alternative imo

Thats interesting to hear your experience, also the blade make an impact on how they behave, i played with D09c on a Viscaria both sides and it feel a bit bouncy compared with boosted H3N 39° and 37° on Viscaria, both feel faster than boosted H3N on Korbel. It played nice but too expensive to justify for amateur play. So what do u say, if LAC Is a good cheap alternative to D09c, would you consider using G09c? Is there any point? How do you compare them? Im guessing LAC has More top end potencial.

 

[TensorBackhand]

This really tempts me to get the LAC, but I already have enough rubbers for at least another 18 months... by then the Rxton 7 and 9 should be out. I shall wait for that...

Nah, you should just get the LAC and also the GTX. Maybe you can get them during the 11\11 sale at Aliexpress.

 

[hclnnkhg]

Nah, you should just get the LAC and also the GTX. Maybe you can get them during the 11\11 sale at Aliexpress.

The Aliexpress sale is not actually better than their coin deals where I could get 20% off some of them.

 

[Attitude]

Thats interesting to hear your experience, also the blade make an impact on how they behave, i played with D09c on a Viscaria both sides and it feel a bit bouncy compared with boosted H3N 39° and 37° on Viscaria, both feel faster than boosted H3N on Korbel. It played nice but too expensive to justify for amateur play. So what do u say, if LAC Is a good cheap alternative to D09c, would you consider using G09c? Is there any point? How do you compare them? Im guessing LAC has More top end potencial.

No i would simply not.
Partially because i despise Butterfly way too much for its distribution decisions and their disgusting prices. And also because i dont see the point for paying more for close to no improvement. Even if there is (and it most certainly should^^) it is not noticably at my level and beyond.
Even my trainingpartner couldnt get used to D09c, couldnt find a deciding advantage and went back to T05. He is more than 100 TTR above me, in case that matters for someone.

And yeah the blade most certainly matters. Although either way i think of myself being capable to find the baseline characteristics of a rubber, no matter the blade.

 

[lodro]

Can any of you knowledgable guys make a comparison between ALC and Dingtian blue sponge version ? The Dingtian was suggested to me as being similar to H3 boosted with the advantage of course that one would not have to boost.

 

[mattlamperouge]

Awesome info!

Definitely I agree that Rxton 5 is similar to H3 and GTX is similar to D09c. If Rxton 7 is upgrade to GTX, im very keen to test it. Rxton 9 being the "national" version makes sense.

Just 2 questions, what is the reason to have 2 separate D09c clones in Rxton 7 and LAC?

Also can you ask the role of N80? That also seems to be clone of H3. Seems unnecessary if they already have Rxton 5 and Rxton 9?

Sure i can ask but i doubt i will get a clear answer on that topic, my reasoning Is that there is a Lot of factors that determine the release of a product, so it isnt rare for a company to release similar rubbers.

In this case it seems GTX N80 and T3 release first then the Arthur seems like a More premium series so they aim at a sligthly different market, then they release Rxton that has a variety of rubbers that are selling well/getting good reviews so its natural they want to push that series with new products.

Based on the research and feedback then it feels logical that if they make a better version of the GTX, they release it as Rxton 7 that sounds better with a clear number, has the popularity of Rxton the marketing etc, instead of making GTX plus/top or w/e.

The N80 Is a early product aimed at the H3N market with a premium feel, Now the Rxton 5 Is a bit cheaper but similar so its More popular it seems. And the N80 doesnt have a series so its maybe harder to sell.

Something i noticed when they send me a catalog Is that there is Some rubbers i never seen listed even at their official AliExpress shop. One Is marketed with LAC, the Arthur Internal energy.

Other Is the T3 81 pro that seems like a premium More spinny version of the T3 , the rxton 3 pro AND top also with different characteristics.

I think based on the spec sheets they send me that These rubbers have the problem that to order them as a seller you need a minimum order quantity of 300 / 500units so Is harder to access just a few to test, since there isnt stock ready. The N80 has the same MOQ. Its also clear in the catalog what products are they pushing as flagships, with the blades Is the same.

Look how the N80 GTX and T3 share space with some premade bats. and in comparison how they push Arthur and Rxton

 

[hclnnkhg]

Sure i can ask but i doubt i will get a clear answer on that topic, my reasoning Is that there is a Lot of factors that determine the release of a product, so it isnt rare for a company to release similar rubbers.

In this case it seems GTX N80 and T3 release first then the Arthur seems like a More premium series so they aim at a sligthly different market, then they release Rxton that has a variety of rubbers that are selling well/getting good reviews so its natural they want to push that series with new products.

Based on the research and feedback then it feels logical that if they make a better version of the GTX, they release it as Rxton 7 that sounds better with a clear number, has the popularity of Rxton the marketing etc, instead of making GTX plus/top or w/e.

The N80 Is a early product aimed at the H3N market with a premium feel, Now the Rxton 5 Is a bit cheaper but similar so its More popular it seems. And the N80 doesnt have a series so its maybe harder to sell.

Something i noticed when they send me a catalog Is that there is Some rubbers i never seen listed even at their official AliExpress shop. One Is marketed with LAC, the Arthur Internal energy. View attachment 25651
Other Is the T3 81 pro that seems like a premium More spinny version of the T3 , the rxton 3 pro AND top also with different characteristics.
View attachment 25652
I think based on the spec sheets they send me that These rubbers have the problem that to order them as a seller you need a minimum order quantity of 300 / 500units so Is harder to access just a few to test, since there isnt stock ready. The N80 has the same MOQ. Its also clear in the catalog what products are they pushing as flagships, with the blades Is the same.
View attachment 25653
Look how the N80 GTX and T3 share space with some premade bats. and in comparison how they push Arthur and Rxton
View attachment 25655View attachment 25656

Very nice to see their catalogue, pity they don't have their own website (quite common with Chinese brands, and even if they do the websites are usually crap). Although I am not sure how many customers would actually care about the amount of VOC and gloss meter reading of a rubber. Also all sponges seem to have large pores and medium densities. Is it always the same sponge?

 

[TensorBackhand]

Sure i can ask but i doubt i will get a clear answer on that topic, my reasoning Is that there is a Lot of factors that determine the release of a product, so it isnt rare for a company to release similar rubbers.

In this case it seems GTX N80 and T3 release first then the Arthur seems like a More premium series so they aim at a sligthly different market, then they release Rxton that has a variety of rubbers that are selling well/getting good reviews so its natural they want to push that series with new products.

Based on the research and feedback then it feels logical that if they make a better version of the GTX, they release it as Rxton 7 that sounds better with a clear number, has the popularity of Rxton the marketing etc, instead of making GTX plus/top or w/e.

The N80 Is a early product aimed at the H3N market with a premium feel, Now the Rxton 5 Is a bit cheaper but similar so its More popular it seems. And the N80 doesnt have a series so its maybe harder to sell.

Something i noticed when they send me a catalog Is that there is Some rubbers i never seen listed even at their official AliExpress shop. One Is marketed with LAC, the Arthur Internal energy. View attachment 25651
Other Is the T3 81 pro that seems like a premium More spinny version of the T3 , the rxton 3 pro AND top also with different characteristics.
View attachment 25652
I think based on the spec sheets they send me that These rubbers have the problem that to order them as a seller you need a minimum order quantity of 300 / 500units so Is harder to access just a few to test, since there isnt stock ready. The N80 has the same MOQ. Its also clear in the catalog what products are they pushing as flagships, with the blades Is the same.
View attachment 25653
Look how the N80 GTX and T3 share space with some premade bats. and in comparison how they push Arthur and Rxton
View attachment 25655View attachment 25656

whoa, that Internal Energy rubber and T3 81 Pro look pretty cool. Would love to get hands on those.

 

[Attitude]

Sure i can ask but i doubt i will get a clear answer on that topic, my reasoning Is that there is a Lot of factors that determine the release of a product, so it isnt rare for a company to release similar rubbers.

In this case it seems GTX N80 and T3 release first then the Arthur seems like a More premium series so they aim at a sligthly different market, then they release Rxton that has a variety of rubbers that are selling well/getting good reviews so its natural they want to push that series with new products.

Based on the research and feedback then it feels logical that if they make a better version of the GTX, they release it as Rxton 7 that sounds better with a clear number, has the popularity of Rxton the marketing etc, instead of making GTX plus/top or w/e.

The N80 Is a early product aimed at the H3N market with a premium feel, Now the Rxton 5 Is a bit cheaper but similar so its More popular it seems. And the N80 doesnt have a series so its maybe harder to sell.

Something i noticed when they send me a catalog Is that there is Some rubbers i never seen listed even at their official AliExpress shop. One Is marketed with LAC, the Arthur Internal energy. View attachment 25651
Other Is the T3 81 pro that seems like a premium More spinny version of the T3 , the rxton 3 pro AND top also with different characteristics.
View attachment 25652
I think based on the spec sheets they send me that These rubbers have the problem that to order them as a seller you need a minimum order quantity of 300 / 500units so Is harder to access just a few to test, since there isnt stock ready. The N80 has the same MOQ. Its also clear in the catalog what products are they pushing as flagships, with the blades Is the same.
View attachment 25653
Look how the N80 GTX and T3 share space with some premade bats. and in comparison how they push Arthur and Rxton
View attachment 25655View attachment 25656

Ok that would probably mean that the TIII 81 is probably the Loki Pro rubber with the 010 number. Because that is the only rubber that is missing from the ITTF-List.

 

[hclnnkhg]

Ok that would probably mean that the TIII 81 is probably the Loki Pro rubber with the 010 number. Because that is the only rubber that is missing from the ITTF-List.

From what I've found on Chinese website, T3 81 is 158-003 (same as normal T3). Arthur Pro is 158-010.

 

[TensorBackhand]

From what I've found on Chinese website, T3 81 is 158-003 (same as normal T3). Arthur Pro is 158-010.

Did the Chinese website say what the difference between T3 and T3 81 is?

 

[Attitude]

From what I've found on Chinese website, T3 81 is 158-003 (same as normal T3). Arthur Pro is 158-010.

Ehm weird, because ive never seen Arthur Pro. Do you have a link or any information about that one?

 

[mattlamperouge]

No i would simply not.
Partially because i despise Butterfly way too much for its distribution decisions and their disgusting prices. And also because i dont see the point for paying more for close to no improvement. Even if there is (and it most certainly should^^) it is not noticably at my level and beyond.
Even my trainingpartner couldnt get used to D09c, couldnt find a deciding advantage and went back to T05. He is more than 100 TTR above me, in case that matters for someone.

And yeah the blade most certainly matters. Although either way i think of myself being capable to find the baseline characteristics of a rubber, no matter the blade.

I understand, i feel similar about butterfly and other brands, i know the quality is usually great and of course they have Pro equipment but its too expensive to justify, and the differences maybe matter at the top 1% of players haha, im not at that level so i dont really feel the need. Like i said earlier im regularly winning against viscaria/etc and dignics/tenergy with some cheap reactor rubbers (boosted with seamoon) and recently i even had a really close tournament QF match that i lose 3-2 with a National U15 representative playing Timo boll Alc and T05. I didnt feel that i lost because of lack of speed or spin due to equipment, just consistency in the last set (and the kid stopped being lax since it was clear he didnt see me as a threat until the last set hahaha)

 

[hclnnkhg]

Ehm weird, because ive never seen Arthur Pro. Do you have a link or any information about that one?

Look closely to the catalouge shared by @mattlamperouge , Arthur Pro = Arthur internal energy. The Arthur series is suspiciously similar to the Xiom Omegas...if Arthur Pro follows this pattern then it is likely to be a slightly tacky rubber that is harder than Arthur Europe but softer than Arthur China, but this is just my guess.

 

[hclnnkhg]

Did the Chinese website say what the difference between T3 and T3 81 is?

穩定快攻,掌控全場
T系列新型蛋糕海綿,提升整體硬度,支撐力十足,同時優化小力量下受力曲綫,降低發力門檻,全面增大發力甜區,極致穩定,彈而不虛,手感清晰易打透,優化膠面可輕鬆制造旋轉.整體容錯率高,尤其在中近台借力發力可輕鬆駕馭,連續進攻亦能給使用者帶來極大信心,展現出色掌控力.
My translation:
- New sponge for T series, it is now harder, offers "good support"
- At the same time, optimise its response to low power shot, so you don't have to hit as hard to get speed
- bigger sweetspot (I call BS...)
- very stable and controllable, good feeling (usual marketing)
- Improved surface grip (This would be big because I think T3 is not very spinny)
- Very good for playing close to mid-table, passive play or active play, continuously (I'd imagine it's for people playing like Chen Xingtong, for example)
Here is the description of original T3:

 

[TensorBackhand]

View attachment 25657
穩定快攻,掌控全場
T系列新型蛋糕海綿,提升整體硬度,支撐力十足,同時優化小力量下受力曲綫,降低發力門檻,全面增大發力甜區,極致穩定,彈而不虛,手感清晰易打透,優化膠面可輕鬆制造旋轉.整體容錯率高,尤其在中近台借力發力可輕鬆駕馭,連續進攻亦能給使用者帶來極大信心,展現出色掌控力.
My translation:
- New sponge for T series, it is now harder, offers "good support"
- At the same time, optimise its response to low power shot, so you don't have to hit as hard to get speed
- bigger sweetspot (I call BS...)
- very stable and controllable, good feeling (usual marketing)
- Improved surface grip (This would be big because I think T3 is not very spinny)
- Very good for playing close to mid-table, passive play or active play, continuously (I'd imagine it's for people playing like Chen Xingtong, for example)
Here is the description of original T3:

View attachment 25658

I used to have the original T3, and it's impressive and disappointing at the same time. The rubber is fast like a ESN rubber, and the throw angle is very comfortable. But the big big downside is that the surface is oddly smooth and lacks grip. So if the new T3 81 offers more grip, that would be a huge plus.

On the flip side...I don't really get how they can make the sponge harder and get more catapult? It seems like any harder sponge tends to result in more dead feeling.

 

[mattlamperouge]

Very nice to see their catalogue, pity they don't have their own website (quite common with Chinese brands, and even if they do the websites are usually crap). Although I am not sure how many customers would actually care about the amount of VOC and gloss meter reading of a rubber. Also all sponges seem to have large pores and medium densities. Is it always the same sponge?

Based on the spec sheet Some sponges are the same, Like the Rxton5 and N80, Some have changed colors, and there is also the treatment i guess "Energy" that i suppose changes the propierties of the rubbers.
Here is a Chart:

 

[TensorBackhand]

Based on the spec sheet Some sponges are the same, Like the Rxton5 and N80, Some have changed colors, and there is also the treatment i guess "Energy" that i suppose changes the propierties of the rubbers.
Here is a Chart:
View attachment 25659

Wow did Loki send you this spec sheet?

But I don't understand what this means. What is the 3rd column mean?
And according to this, does this mean Rxton 5 and N80 have the exact same topsheet and sponge? And GTX also shares the exact same topsheet but different sponge?

 

[mattlamperouge]

I used to have the original T3, and it's impressive and disappointing at the same time. The rubber is fast like a ESN rubber, and the throw angle is very comfortable. But the big big downside is that the surface is oddly smooth and lacks grip. So if the new T3 81 offers more grip, that would be a huge plus.

On the flip side...I don't really get how they can make the sponge harder and get more catapult? It seems like any harder sponge tends to result in more dead feeling.

On the spec sheet they list it as the same N01 Sponge but in 40° and red color, The manufacturer specs are the same except for Spin T3:9 T3 81:11 of course it dosnt say much on how they really play but thats what the brand says about them.

Also its interesting that for sellers T3 81 Special is just 1 dollar more than T3 but with a MOQ of 300, So its still cheaper than Loki arthur China for example.

View attachment 25657
穩定快攻,掌控全場
T系列新型蛋糕海綿,提升整體硬度,支撐力十足,同時優化小力量下受力曲綫,降低發力門檻,全面增大發力甜區,極致穩定,彈而不虛,手感清晰易打透,優化膠面可輕鬆制造旋轉.整體容錯率高,尤其在中近台借力發力可輕鬆駕馭,連續進攻亦能給使用者帶來極大信心,展現出色掌控力.
My translation:
- New sponge for T series, it is now harder, offers "good support"
- At the same time, optimise its response to low power shot, so you don't have to hit as hard to get speed
- bigger sweetspot (I call BS...)
- very stable and controllable, good feeling (usual marketing)
- Improved surface grip (This would be big because I think T3 is not very spinny)
- Very good for playing close to mid-table, passive play or active play, continuously (I'd imagine it's for people playing like Chen Xingtong, for example)
Here is the description of original T3:

View attachment 25658

i think is correct, it seems like a grippier harder T3, probably hard to find a seller, they even dont have it listed on their official store. Also Arthur Pro (Internal energy) isnt on the spec list they send me, interesting i guess.

 

[mattlamperouge]

Wow did Loki send you this spec sheet?

But I don't understand what this means. What is the 3rd column mean?
And according to this, does this mean Rxton 5 and N80 have the exact same topsheet and sponge? And GTX also shares the exact same topsheet but different sponge?

Yes they send me a spec sheet for rubbers and other for blades to have as a reference. I dont quite get the "energy" column either but i guess is the "technology"(like tensor/ yinhe maxtense) or sponge treatment.
Maybe @Tony's Table Tennis knows a bit more and can clarify since he talks with chinese agents too.
I dont know if its the same topsheet, i dont think so because Rxton 3 and 5 doesnt have the same, i guess is the level of tackiness, based on the chart LAC is the tackiest of the series, then T3 and arthur Europe Diamond are Non-Sticky, just grippy (they translate it as Astringent for some reason)