Experience with some other Loki rubbers - Arthur China, GTX Pro (inc)

[Wakkibatty]

Great! Can you share the screenshot of the other kirin rubbers description? 1 3 5

Yeah no worries 🙂🙂 Please see below.

I ordered a sample set of Kirin 1 and Kirin 3 rubbers yesterday for product testing purposes, largely out of curiosity.

I'll upload some of my thoughts on them both once I've had a chance to try them out on a few different blade types.

 

[MonkeyDLuffy]

http://www.lokisport.com/ -> Product Display last link -> catalogue -> https://flbook.com.cn/c/VubLi8CH4p

Name	Thickness	Hardness	Sponge	Speed	Control	Spin	Tacky
Kirin K1	2.1 mm	A37	Kunlun I	11.5	10	9	non-sticky
Kirin K3	2.1 mm	A37	Negh I	12	11	9	non-sticky
Kirin K5	2.1 mm	A37	Kunlun IV	13.5	10	8.5	non-sticky
Kirin MP	1.8 mm	A35	Negh I	14.5	9	6.5	medium pimples
Kirin LP	1.0 mm	A37	Loxa I	7	15	5.5	long pimples
Kirin SP	2.1 mm	A35	Loxa I	15	13	7	short pimples
Rxton 1	2.1 mm	A39	Kunlun I	11	10	9	sticky
Rxton 1 Special	2.1 mm	A39	Kunlun I	11	10	9	sticky
Rxton 3 Max	2.1 mm	A39	Negh I	10	11	10	sticky
Rxton 3 Pro	2.1 mm	A40	Negh I	11	12	11	sticky
Rxton 5 Max	2.1 mm	A41	Loxa I	11	11	11	sticky
Rxton 5 Pro	2.1 mm	A41	Loxa I	11	12	12	sticky
Rxton 7	2.1 mm	A37, A39, A40	Kunlun III	11.5	12	12	sticky
Rxton 9	2.1 mm	A39.5, A40.5	Loxa III	12	12	12	sticky
Rxton 9 Speed	2.1 mm	?	Loxa III	13	12	12	sticky
Telson 100	2.1 mm	O47.5, O45	Kunlun II	13	13	12	non-sticky
Arthur China	2.1 mm	A40	Kunlun II	11	12	12	sticky
Arthur Europe	2.1 mm	A40	Loxa II	12	11	12	sticky
Arthur Asia	2.1 mm	A41	Kunlun III	11	12	12	sticky
Arthur Europe Soft	2.1 mm	A37	Kunlun III	12	12	11	non-sticky
Rxton 3 Blue/Pink	2.1 mm	?	?	?	?	?	sticky

Does anyone know when they will release Rxton 9 in 39.5 deg? I could only see 39 and 40.5 deg on Ali so far 39.5 would be the perfect hardness for me.

 

[mattlamperouge]

Yeah no worries 🙂🙂 Please see below.

I ordered a sample set of Kirin 1 and Kirin 3 rubbers yesterday for product testing purposes, largely out of curiosity.

I'll upload some of my thoughts on them both once I've had a chance to try them out on a few different blade types.

View attachment 30907

View attachment 30908

Great! I also asked my agent for the catalogue, Kirin rubbers have promising descriptions & price...let us know how they perform. I noticed the Lack of T-3 series rubbers (kind of make sense with new non tacky rubbers coming out) but sad about the lack of color Rxton 3 (pink/blue) do you have any information about it? They removed them from production (maybe updating formula /packaging)?

 

[ttarc]

Telson 100 475, 2.1 mm, red, 92g including packaging, 69g without, 169 mm x 169 mm, 48g cut on Telson CNF (157 mm x 150 mm), 2 + 2 layers Revolution 3 normal viscosity. Feels harder than 47.5° ESN or 37° but softer than my Glayzer 09C or a H3N 39° maybe around 38°... Slightly tacky, more than my used G09C.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Great! I also asked my agent for the catalogue, Kirin rubbers have promising descriptions & price...let us know how they perform. I noticed the Lack of T-3 series rubbers (kind of make sense with new non tacky rubbers coming out) but sad about the lack of color Rxton 3 (pink/blue) do you have any information about it? They removed them from production (maybe updating formula /packaging)?

So K5 is even faster than Telson 100? So strange. But why is the spin so low?

 

[TensorBackhand]

Great! I also asked my agent for the catalogue, Kirin rubbers have promising descriptions & price...let us know how they perform. I noticed the Lack of T-3 series rubbers (kind of make sense with new non tacky rubbers coming out) but sad about the lack of color Rxton 3 (pink/blue) do you have any information about it? They removed them from production (maybe updating formula /packaging)?

Maybe the K series uses the same topsheet as the old T3? That would explain the low spin.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Telson 100 475, 2.1 mm, red, 92g including packaging, 69g without, 169 mm x 169 mm, 48g cut on Telson CNF (157 mm x 150 mm), 2 + 2 layers Revolution 3 normal viscosity. Feels harder than 47.5° ESN or 37° but softer than my Glayzer 09C or a H3N 39° maybe around 38°... Slightly tacky, more than my used G09C.

View attachment 30916

How is the rebound or catapult?

 

[mattlamperouge]

So K5 is even faster than Telson 100? So strange. But why is the spin so low?

I can't say, but the price I got on the brochure it's just a bit lower than Telson 100. It says to use a new Kunlun sponge IV. Interesting to know they plan to make Rxton 7 on 37/ 39 & 40 degrees.

Maybe the K series uses the same topsheet as the old T3? That would explain the low spin.

Maybe, I don't know. I learned to make my own judgments and kind of ignore brand ratings...T3 carbon rates 10 spin...maybe on topspin drive 🤷but I didn't find it that spinny on serves for example.

 

[TensorBackhand]

I can't say, but the price I got on the brochure it's just a bit lower than Telson 100. It says to use a new Kunlun sponge IV. Interesting to know they plan to make Rxton 7 on 37/ 39 & 40 degrees.

Maybe, I don't know. I learned to make my own judgments and kind of ignore brand ratings...T3 carbon rates 10 spin...maybe on topspin drive 🤷but I didn't find it that spinny on serves for example.

Loki is getting a bit crowded with their rubbers now. I don't know what to try anymore.

 

[mattlamperouge]

Loki is getting a bit crowded with their rubbers now. I don't know what to try anymore.

I don't think it's too crowded really, they have clear series & seem to be reorganizing a bit, i would focus first on telson then on the new Kirin rubbers since Rxton line it's pretty stablished already. My guess it's they will completely "remove" T3 like they did GTX & N80. maybe later the Arthur series (a bit sad)

I think that could make things more clear, For example they could have
Rxton Series: Tacky/hybrids (with different characteristics & price, from beginners to advanced/pro line)
Kirin series: Non tacky + pimple out (more BH oriented rubbers) & Telson series the more advanced grippy rubbers. I think That's what I would do if I was their marketing department.

 

[TensorBackhand]

I don't think it's too crowded really, they have clear series & seem to be reorganizing a bit, i would focus first on telson then on the new Kirin rubbers since Rxton line it's pretty stablished already. My guess it's they will completely "remove" T3 like they did GTX & N80. maybe later the Arthur series (a bit sad)

I think that could make things more clear, For example they could have
Rxton Series: Tacky/hybrids (with different characteristics & price, from beginners to advanced/pro line)
Kirin series: Non tacky + pimple out (more BH oriented rubbers) & Telson series the more advanced grippy rubbers. I think That's what I would do if I was their marketing department.

I want Loki to make things clear and easy to understand.

H3 clone - Rxton 9 is the premium one? Rxton 5 is value one. Ok, but they need to make clear the Rxton 5 hardness, it is never accurate.

Tension bh rubber - Telson 100 is the premium one? Is Kirin 5 the value one? why is the spin so low?

Hybrid D09c role - A bit crowded here. LAC, LAA, Rxon 7? Rxton 3 Pink/Blue? Rxton 3 Pro?

 

[mattlamperouge]

I want Loki to make things clear and easy to understand.

H3 clone - Rxton 9 is the premium one? Rxton 5 is value one. Ok, but they need to make clear the Rxton 5 hardness, it is never accurate.

Tension bh rubber - Telson 100 is the premium one? Is Kirin 5 the value one? why is the spin so low?

Hybrid D09c role - A bit crowded here. LAC, LAA, Rxon 7? Rxton 3 Pink/Blue? Rxton 3 Pro?

I don't want to think exactly like that just general characteristics.
Rxton Tacky series for all levels different characteristics preferences etc, Kirin Value BH oriented rubbers Non tacky + Pimples
Telson advanced Grippy non tacky rubbers.
With that logic I think Arthur line sadly it's a bit redundant(it was their first advanced series) they should somehow absorb/reduce/rebrand the tacky ones on the Rxton series & the Arthur Europe diamond on the Telson series (they were working on the Telson 100 zz that it was supposed to be more German/ESN style instead of Jap like the new Telson 100) but i suppose its a challenge registering new larc numbers & molds, new packaging etc. but to declutter that would be the move, for example the new Rxton 7 with 3 hardness could cover the market for Arthur china, Asia & europe...just brainstorming a bit🤷🤣

 

[hclnnkhg]

I want Loki to make things clear and easy to understand.

H3 clone - Rxton 9 is the premium one? Rxton 5 is value one. Ok, but they need to make clear the Rxton 5 hardness, it is never accurate.

Tension bh rubber - Telson 100 is the premium one? Is Kirin 5 the value one? why is the spin so low?

Hybrid D09c role - A bit crowded here. LAC, LAA, Rxon 7? Rxton 3 Pink/Blue? Rxton 3 Pro?

I agree that Loki's rubbers series are a bit crowded and overlapping. I think Tibhar and Stiga are doing relatively well in this department; they have a top-performance grippy rubber line (Evolution, DNA Platinum), a hybrid rubber line (Hybrid K1/K3 [could we count MK?], DNA Hybrid + Dragongrip), a grippy rubber line that is more on control/spin (Quantum X Pro, Mantra). Right now Loki's lines are like this:
Rxton: spanning from entry-level tacky rubber (1/3/5), colour rubber (3 blue/pink), to top-tier tacky rubber (9), and supposedly a top-tier tacky rubber for backhand (7)
Arthur: the "hybrid" line with various hardness (Europe -> China -> Asia), with an extra non-tacky rubber (Europe Diamond)
Kirin: non-tacky rubber (1/3/5) + pips
Telson: top-tier non-tacky rubber
T3: fast, not spinny non-tacky rubber that keeps staying on the catalogue...

Then they keep having variants like Rxton 1 Pro, Rxton 1 Plus, Rxton 3/5 Pro, Arthur China 37 deg, Arthur China with green packages...

On top of these, they have three sponge types (Kunlun "the small-pore cake sponge", NEGH "the carbo cake sponge", and a classic Chinese high-density sponge) that is used in every rubber lines...

 

[hclnnkhg]

I don't want to think exactly like that just general characteristics.
Rxton Tacky series for all levels different characteristics preferences etc, Kirin Value BH oriented rubbers Non tacky + Pimples
Telson advanced Grippy non tacky rubbers.
With that logic I think Arthur line sadly it's a bit redundant(it was their first advanced series) they should somehow absorb/reduce/rebrand the tacky ones on the Rxton series & the Arthur Europe diamond on the Telson series (they were working on the Telson 100 zz that it was supposed to be more German/ESN style instead of Jap like the new Telson 100) but i suppose its a challenge registering new larc numbers & molds, new packaging etc. but to declutter that would be the move, for example the new Rxton 7 with 3 hardness could cover the market for Arthur china, Asia & europe...just brainstorming a bit🤷🤣

I think the Arthur line can stay but it should be more distinctive from Rxton 9/7. Rxton can be the classic Chinese rubber and Arthur can be the hybrid line (but it better be REAL hybrid sponge, not just slightly more boosted).

 

[lodro]

I think the Arthur line can stay but it should be more distinctive from Rxton 9/7. Rxton can be the classic Chinese rubber and Arthur can be the hybrid line (but it better be REAL hybrid sponge, not just slightly more boosted).

Now don't you go and put more funny ideas in Lokis head. If they keep on flooding the market with their "experimental products" they otherwise end up with a perfect dignics or Hurricane3 -National copy for half the price.
And nobody wants that , right ? 🤣
🤣 🤣

 

[mattlamperouge]

I think the Arthur line can stay but it should be more distinctive from Rxton 9/7. Rxton can be the classic Chinese rubber and Arthur can be the hybrid line (but it better be REAL hybrid sponge, not just slightly more boosted).

Latest catalogue already don't show T3 line 😵‍💫 and have the new kirin non tacky with similar characteristics and price (Kirin 3 carbon sponge), I have a feeling based on what they said in a few alibaba Livestreams that Arthur series will go next (Maybe some things I misunderstood since they don't speak English that well)
Rxton 7 is now listed with 3 hardness (previously was only listed 38°) that could cover the tacky Arthur rubbers🤷😅
What you mean by real Hybrid Sponge? For example Cake sponge with tacky rubber such as Rxton 3 Pro, isn't that kind of typical old hybrid? I feel clear difference between high density loxa sponge with Kunlun and Negh...

 

[hclnnkhg]

Latest catalogue already don't show T3 line 😵‍💫 and have the new kirin non tacky with similar characteristics and price (Kirin 3 carbon sponge), I have a feeling based on what they said in a few alibaba Livestreams that Arthur series will go next (Maybe some things I misunderstood since they don't speak English that well)
Rxton 7 is now listed with 3 hardness (previously was only listed 38°) that could cover the tacky Arthur rubbers🤷😅
What you mean by real Hybrid Sponge? For example Cake sponge with tacky rubber such as Rxton 3 Pro, isn't that kind of typical old hybrid? I feel clear difference between high density loxa sponge with Kunlun and Negh...

Didn't T3 just get new packaging at the beginning of this year? They are changing fast...

Axing the Arthur series makes sense, I think only the Arthur China is popular and Rxton 9 is sort of replacing it to be THE forehand LOKI rubber anyway.
I tried Arthur China and Europe, they are not as hard to use as those with LOXA sponge (old Rxton 5?), but they need to be faster to be consider ESN-like hybrid.
Although I think with Pre-boosted Rxton 9 and the Loki oil they have given up on further developing their cake sponge. It would be hard to compete with Hybrid K1 and 2.1mm Dragongrip domestically for them - you could get either of these for around 150 CNY in China.

 

[Wakkibatty]

Great! I also asked my agent for the catalogue, Kirin rubbers have promising descriptions & price...let us know how they perform. I noticed the Lack of T-3 series rubbers (kind of make sense with new non tacky rubbers coming out) but sad about the lack of color Rxton 3 (pink/blue) do you have any information about it? They removed them from production (maybe updating formula /packaging)?

The vibe I get from Loki over the R3 blue and pink is they're not certain if they will continue with them or not. The blue seems more solid in their thinking but I think they're torn over the pink. This is probably due to early production problems (separation) The latest batch of pinks I bought were rock solid, with no separation problems at all, and I told them this in my latest emails to them. I encouraged them to stick with the blue and pink and reminded them they may take a while to take off due to the early QA problems they had with them. Both these rubbers are still my own FH personal preference with my own competition equipment. Currently I'm rocking a pinkie on the FH side of both my comp blade and back-up blade, and just loving it frankly 😎😎 Surprisingly powerful rubber the pinkie, even though the blue is marginally faster -- anyone who says they need boosting IMO is severely mistaken, (possibly they just like to boost stuff 🤷🏻) ...but then again I can hit like a truck on my FH so I dont mind the lower speed.

Probably it's the idea of coloured rubbers they're shaky on more than anything else, as they only make the two of them. Clearly their focus is in making more rubbers and better rubbers not more colourful ones, and frankly I think that's the right approach for them right now. Personally I believe changing the rubber colours is not the sales & marketing master stroke all the world's larger brands thought or wished it would be.

For the most part I find their rubbers are actually very high quality now across the range, and represent very good value for money really, with rubbers like the T100 arguably being the best value proposition the have (albeit being a fiddly rubber initially for me to find a blade for).

What they still clearly lack lack is brand awareness, a successful market niche, and a few really popular killer rubbers to hang their hat on. The LAC is still probably their best known rubber but I think the T100 may be the better product by a hair. They're adding lots new product lines and refining / altering others, so there's clearly a fresh investment push going on.

It will be hard for them to shift the sales needle in a major way though for a little while yet I think. They're still a smaller brand in China, and their footprint in Europe and here in Australia is still tiny, but growing. It will also take a while for word of their products to filter out -- right now their lower price point is entrenched, so they can't back away from their value for money proposition as it's the most useful selling tool they have. This means that sooner or later their margins will come under pressure, as you can't maintain low margins and rising product quality across the board forever. Sooner or later one of those has got to give, otherwise their investors will start to become nervous. So long as they continue to put quality first though they should be okay. You can't hide diamonds forever. Sooner or later the wider market will catch on and they'll become a higher profile brand internationally.

 

[ttarc]

How is the rebound or catapult?

Yes... had just one session so far. No drills, just some matches with players I know. Different blade than usual 1), H3 on FH and BH worked well but BH with Telson 100 was way to inconsistent. Playing against unknown opponents would have been a disaster.

Agree with @Wakkibatty https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...rs-arthur-china-gtx-pro-inc.26965/post-460916 on this one..

High quality rubber. Sponge is not brittle as DHS #80, topsheet is very grippy, slightly tacky, and a bit sensitive to humidity.
Short game and serves: good, not that hard to keep balls short or push long with good placement or to keep serves short and spinny. Blocks: also good (when using soft hands), not very spin sensitive. Drives and especially smashes are very good and fast.
But this thing has definitely two gears: fast enough and good to control and nuts with lots of spin and a borderline low trajectory when looping. I definitely need more time to figure out how to loop consistently with this rubber.

It might eventually work better when boosted/softened a bit to get more contact time but I'm a bit hesitant to try that at the moment...

1) Telson CNF: Nice blade, woody feeling, not overly fast when not needed, flexes and vibrates more than e.g. V14Pro or 729 Blue Arylate.

 

[lodro]

You can't hide diamonds forever. Sooner or later the wider market will catch on and they'll become a higher profile brand internationally.

the sooner the better, I will then have a chance to sell my sticky R5 s and empty my cupboard