Fancy blades are just not worth it

[Lazer]

Carbospeed.

Ovtcharov Carbospeed, Waldner Hinoki Dotec, Persson Dotec OFF and Walnder Legend Carbon.

I thought the World Champion 89 series also used Hinoki but they use spruce instead.

Thank You guys, my club is sponsored by Donic so this is worth looking into.

I know I have "spruce" blades. Soulspin is making them for Nittaku as well. Spruce I really like, hinoki as well.
I usually avoid blades with names attached, two exceptions Donic appelgren WC98 which could be the slowest outer blade on the market, one of my favorites and Waldner Gold edition (which is still waiting). Now I got another one on my radar, Waldner Legend Carbon.
Will this quest ever end?

Cheers
L-zr

 

[S-Pin]

Donic uses it quite a bit, Xiom has had quite a few, DHS has the Dippers, Sanwei and Yinhe has blade lines with Hinoki tops, Butterfly has the Gregely.

it's quite common,but some manufacturers will use other cypress wood instead.

Don't forget Nittaku Miyabi, Septear, and Hino blades, the ever popular Joola Rossi Emotion, Joola Aruna, Joola Nobilis, and the blade I would like to try - Victas Koki Niwa ZC.
But of course if you want to experience how real kiso hinoki feels, look at Darker blades

 

[SleepyMaster]

Why then most pros or even just high level players don’t using 3$ blade with 1$ rubbers boosted? If those high end blades and rubbers are “not worth it”?

Of course it does but not for everyone.

And most amateurs will benefit from cheap slow racket/rubbers combo much better while their in developing phase other than using FZD SALC with T05 or D05. But the higher you go - the better you became - your needs may change and your equipment also. I know an amateurs that never participated in rated tourney with a playing level of 2300+ they just spar with national level guys for years. Did they benefit from high-end equipment? I’m sure they does.

So the most important thing is not cost of your setup but it usability and suitability for your needs and technical level/style

 

[Lazer]

Why then most pros or even just high level players don’t using 3$ blade with 1$ rubbers boosted? If those high end blades and rubbers are “not worth it”?

Of course it does but not for everyone.

And most amateurs will benefit from cheap slow racket/rubbers combo much better while their in developing phase other than using FZD SALC with T05 or D05. But the higher you go - the better you became - your needs may change and your equipment also. I know an amateurs that never participated in rated tourney with a playing level of 2300+ they just spar with national level guys for years. Did they benefit from high-end equipment? I’m sure they does.

So the most important thing is not cost of your setup but it usability and suitability for your needs and technical level/style

They are sponsored by a brand...

Cheers
L-zr

 

[darkky65]

Why then most pros or even just high level players don’t using 3$ blade with 1$ rubbers boosted? If those high end blades and rubbers are “not worth it”?

Of course it does but not for everyone.

And most amateurs will benefit from cheap slow racket/rubbers combo much better while their in developing phase other than using FZD SALC with T05 or D05. But the higher you go - the better you became - your needs may change and your equipment also. I know an amateurs that never participated in rated tourney with a playing level of 2300+ they just spar with national level guys for years. Did they benefit from high-end equipment? I’m sure they does.

So the most important thing is not cost of your setup but it usability and suitability for your needs and technical level/style

Rubbers definitely get better the more you spend.

Blades can be cloned at a fraction of the cost (most of the time)

obviously diminishing returns is going to be true for both. just more apparent for blades.

 

[Sims]

Rubbers definitely get better the more you spend.

Blades can be cloned at a fraction of the cost (most of the time)

obviously diminishing returns is going to be true for both. just more apparent for blades.

Yes, I'd agreed with you.
I'd define 'better' as the rubbers maximum ability to impart quality onto the ball as can be determined by by pro players with flawless technique.
Otherwise better doesn't work in this context cos a €90 D09c would certainly make me a worse player.

Following from this though I would say the same is true about blades but it's harder to notice.
Pros can determine/feel what's better and extract much more from a blade than us bumbling amateurs and most (but not all) think that the blade is the more important part of the equation.
So I do think blades are often better with price too (for the most part) but it's just harder for amateurs to tell what the blade is doing V the rubber.
At least that's been my observation.

Short version, as my technique is improving and becoming more consistent I can notice more differences in blades than I could before....

 

[NDH]

Why then most pros or even just high level players don’t using 3$ blade with 1$ rubbers boosted? If those high end blades and rubbers are “not worth it”?

Sponsorship and familiarity (on the whole).

It's a vicious circle....

Junior player wants to play like hero..... So they use the same equipment (for blade, let's take the Viscaria).

Junior player turns pro, and gets a sponsorship.

Option A - Sponsored by brand they use (Butterfly) and simply use the same equipment or have their own blade made up in the same way (TB ALC for example).

Option B - Sponsored by another brand (FZD, Stiga), but still use the same Viscaria they are used to.

New juniors see their new favourite player uses Viscaria and the cycle repeats.

Rubbers.... Slightly different, but there's a reason so many top players use Butterfly if they can't access the H3 from the CNT.

Why do I buy/use "fancy" blades (we all know I'm a Butterfly fan boy).

Honestly.... It's the design and fit/finish. I just think it's nicer and feels better than many other cheaper brands.

Is it worth a 5 X premium? Absolutely not. But considering the blade should last 10 years plus..... It's worth it to me.

Could I use a "cheaper" blade and still perform as well? Almost certainly....

My next blade will 100% be from @hipnotic - Again, because the design and fit/finish is amazing!

 

[SleepyMaster]

They are sponsored by a brand...

Cheers
L-zr

Not everyone who is sponsored is using the blade that their had contract with, the same with rubber - depends on contract details. Plus I’m talking bout top 150-200 of country for example most of them are using the blades/rubbers that they like it’s like semi pro level - so they don’t have a pro contract but still very good players. Not everyone in the world that using Viscaria is sponsored by Butterfly.

Rubbers definitely get better the more you spend.

Blades can be cloned at a fraction of the cost (most of the time)

obviously diminishing returns is going to be true for both. just more apparent for blades.

No you can’t just clone - you can clone wood, trying to copy plies but in reality you will get absolutely different feeling. Do you think Revoldia cnf and some Clonevoldia cnf for 15$ would be the same in feeling? They absolutely will not. Butterfly quality/feel racket can be assembled only in their production facilities and same with the rubbers.

I’m not saying that clones can’t be descent enough quality and maybe they are even better for some feel and needs. They just different and not the same as they quoted to be

 

[SleepyMaster]

Sponsorship and familiarity (on the whole).

It's a vicious circle....

Junior player wants to play like hero..... So they use the same equipment (for blade, let's take the Viscaria).

Junior player turns pro, and gets a sponsorship.

Option A - Sponsored by brand they use (Butterfly) and simply use the same equipment or have their own blade made up in the same way (TB ALC for example).

Option B - Sponsored by another brand (FZD, Stiga), but still use the same Viscaria they are used to.

New juniors see their new favourite player uses Viscaria and the cycle repeats.

Rubbers.... Slightly different, but there's a reason so many top players use Butterfly if they can't access the H3 from the CNT.

Why do I buy/use "fancy" blades (we all know I'm a Butterfly fan boy).

Honestly.... It's the design and fit/finish. I just think it's nicer and feels better than many other cheaper brands.

Is it worth a 5 X premium? Absolutely not. But considering the blade should last 10 years plus..... It's worth it to me.

Could I use a "cheaper" blade and still perform as well? Almost certainly....

My next blade will 100% be from @hipnotic - Again, because the design and fit/finish is amazing!

Yeah, agreed on every point.

At the end of the day everyone can pick a brand that his like and to training/play/having fun with it 😌

 

[Lazer]

Not everyone who is sponsored is using the blade that their had contract with, the same with rubber - depends on contract details. Plus I’m talking bout top 150-200 of country for example most of them are using the blades/rubbers that they like it’s like semi pro level - so they don’t have a pro contract but still very good players. Not everyone in the world that using Viscaria is sponsored by Butterfly.

No rules without exception...

Cheers
L.-zr

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Sponsorship and familiarity (on the whole).

It's a vicious circle....

Junior player wants to play like hero..... So they use the same equipment (for blade, let's take the Viscaria).

Junior player turns pro, and gets a sponsorship.

Option A - Sponsored by brand they use (Butterfly) and simply use the same equipment or have their own blade made up in the same way (TB ALC for example).

Option B - Sponsored by another brand (FZD, Stiga), but still use the same Viscaria they are used to.

New juniors see their new favourite player uses Viscaria and the cycle repeats.

Rubbers.... Slightly different, but there's a reason so many top players use Butterfly if they can't access the H3 from the CNT.

Why do I buy/use "fancy" blades (we all know I'm a Butterfly fan boy).

Honestly.... It's the design and fit/finish. I just think it's nicer and feels better than many other cheaper brands.

Is it worth a 5 X premium? Absolutely not. But considering the blade should last 10 years plus..... It's worth it to me.

Could I use a "cheaper" blade and still perform as well? Almost certainly....

My next blade will 100% be from @hipnotic - Again, because the design and fit/finish is amazing!

You can start playing in the league again, win it, and be a Hipnotic sponsored player. Heck, I bet Hipnotic will also sponsor your jersey as well...

NDH Super ZLC straight handle 5+2 @Euro 199.00 inc VAT. Buy now get a NDH signed T-shirt too.

It would be so cool to have a real life sponsored player here in TTD forum whom we all can chill out with.

 

[Migzkulit]

Don't forget Nittaku Miyabi, Septear, and Hino blades, the ever popular Joola Rossi Emotion, Joola Aruna, Joola Nobilis, and the blade I would like to try - Victas Koki Niwa ZC.
But of course if you want to experience how real kiso hinoki feels, look at Darker blades

My Mizuno Fortius Ft Ver.d (handful of a name), uses Hinoki as a intermediate ply.
Limba - Dual web(polyester) - ayous - hinoki - ayous.

Hinoki is famous for it's ability to do fake loops because of it being soft. The blade still feels very soft compared to innerforce blades.
I've even thought of going to Dignics 09c or T05H just because of how soft it is. My 40 deg H3 isn't enough speed.

I've also waited forever to see a Koki Niwa ZC review

 

[S-Pin]

Blades can be cloned at a fraction of the cost (most of the time)

In the meantime I bought this, just to add to my small hinoki collection. It won't replace my H2 as a prime blade of course, but it's such a great fun to play with.

Could it be cloned at a fraction of its cost? I seriously doubt it . If anything, it will be more expensive in the future.

 

[Lazer]

In the meantime I bought this, just to add to my small hinoki collection. It won't replace my H2 as a prime blade of course, but it's such a great fun to play with.

Could it be cloned at a fraction of its cost? I seriously doubt it . If anything, it will be more expensive in the future.

View attachment 31128

Exactly, I got myself a 7P-2A while TT11 still had them available…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[TensorBackhand]

Today I played with a friend who has provincial W968. Another expensive fancy blade.

It's been a while since I have touched this kind of blade, but I just wasn't impressed at all. It was much softer than the blades I often use, it was kinda slow and unremarkable. Did it have more dwell time? Yes kinda.

But if anything it's overly dwelly and sluggish.

Is Ma Long's blade also like this?? I can't imagine he would want to play with this.

 

[netdriver]

i dont think that my yasaka blades were expensive but they are pretty fancy to me

i wouldve gotten more chinese-brand blades if only their blades had a better visual design to them. butterfly makes the most visually appealing blades imo, followed by stiga (the CR blades dont count).

 

[_ak]

I don't care about design much. It seems that Chinese blades are made with greater weight range initially, it's very common when first reviewers get 86-88g and after some time such weight is nowhere to find, only 90+ remain in stock.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Today I tried a mate's Harimoto Szlc. This blade is actually good. I like it. Its somewhat flexy but still crisp and snappy. Its good to hit punchy shots and hard loops.

To be honest, its really quite similar to my Stuor Harimoto. I stil like my Stuor better if they were in a blind test. The Bty has a denser feel, while the Stuor feels a bit more springy, airy, snappy.

 

[dingyibvs]

Today I played with a guy who let me try his Nittaku So-Ten. $150 on Paddle Palace, so should be really good blade, right?

Honestly it didn't feel very much different from my $30 Sanwei F3 Pro. Seriously they felt very similar. Both have a soft feel with flex. I honestly don't think either one is better than they other, just very similar. Maybe the high price is to guarantee the high quality soft wood or something...but yeah it ended up just feeling not so special. I think my Stuor Harimoto is much much better.

Also he let me try a blade I haven't seen before. He said Fang Bo started his own company and it was a clone of the Long 5. This blade was quite good...but I still think the DHS Fang Bo was better. Anybody know the name of this brand and blade?

Worth it? That depends. For one, I'm sure you don't try out all the equipment because you think they'd make you better, but because it's fun, right? I bought a bunch of ML blades because I like Ma Long, not because I think I'd play better with it.

The second thing and that might be more relevant for playing, which is that cheap blades are replaced by newer versions all the time, while the "classics" stay relatively constant. I actually have a Sanwei F3 from ~15 years ago, it's one of my favorite blades. It's got good touch, and is crisp with just enough flex and solid speed. Despite its inner carbon construction it feels very similar to my Viscaria, it's really like a lighter version of it. The problem? I can't find it anymore. The new Sanwei F3's use a different fiber and weigh more (mine is ~80 grams).

With the Viscaria, I can probably find a similar Viscaria to what I'm used to. I have a CS Viscaria and a TB ALC and they play nothing like my current main blade, so it might take a few tries, but it's gonna be possible.

 

[Grumms]

This thread made me want to test Sanwei HC-1S, so I ordered it. What's its composition ? Honoki - ?? - ALC - Ayous. And what's the difference with the HC-5S ?

I had trouble finding the 1S on AliExpress, why is that ?

To be more consistent with the topic, I never had what you might call a fancy blade. Mines have always been mid range in term of pricing (Waldner Dicon for 10 years, and now Yinhe/Loki/Stuor blades). But what defines fancy ? Is a Yinhe Pro 05 at 55$ fancy ? Kind of, I would say.

In my little club, nobody has the fanciest blades, except a very few low ranked players (one has Viscaria, the other one a FZD ZLC, they both lose to me 11-0 regularly). Most players play with very mid range blade.