Feedback on my League games

[NetProphet]

The thing is I know them for a long time. They are quite older than me ~55-75+ and the ones on my team are around ~57(the one I talked to and like the most on the team. You can hear him in the videos vs Günter for example how he is supporting me from the side ~1200RC)

the other member who I like also (who gave me Harimoto SZLC + D09c ~2weeks played for FREE + he has ) and also supports me in my games and picks me up to drive me to our league games (he is my neighbour too but still doesn't bother to pick the others up who live further away ~15min) ~1200RC

The 3rd Member is a couple years older than me but he seems to care more about his trainingsessions with the kids more than his own training (we probably trained like twice or so in the last 4-5months) he has around 1470RC
He is ok to talk to but we are not so close and he is a bit distant.

When I switch the teams I already know they won't be that supportive as much as my current team. I will have to drive on my own. I am also not sure if they train much.

And as you said I was frustrated when the other youth player left(sure the club got like 700€ for the loan year so it was worth for them but they didn't talk with me about that decision or what my goals were. Because I really wanted to play for promotion again which would have been easy with him) (we had 2 youth player and rotated as 4 man in the Landesliga since only 3 can play) and after that season we got demoted due to new rules (league being seized down from 12 Teams to 10) and we were 3rd last place.. One left to study to vienna the other wanted to play one more season in the Landesliga in a different club before he goes studying himself but its april and he is still unsure what he wants to do.. Anyway because he didn't come to train with us except once we also lost a good player to train with.

There are technically 2 Teams I could ask to join. Maybe more but I don't favor them so much. I don't know it seems hard to go from a supportive team to an unknown team that are more individuals than a "team" atleast from an outside perspective.

Sorry I wrote it a bit messy this time. Just puked my thoughts straight out of the brain.

I will just talk with my current team and then start talking with other clubs. I think thats better than the other way around. Because I really feel like I can reach higher. And for that I need better opponents and better trainingspartner.

TLDR: Talking with my own club first and then will go and contact the other player from the other club to train a session with me and then talk about joining his club if I enjoyed practising with him otherwise there is another club I will go and ask if I can play in their 2nd team (they have 2 teams in the Landesliga - only downside they are 30min further away but their hall will get destroyed so they might need to play away always not sure where they would train then.. thats why I am shifting towards the other club which is also a bit closer)

Nice. You describe a nice environment at a friendly club.
Play league for the club that will improve you and still train with your current club sometimes?

I remember on our football team (over 20 yrs ago) we had a very good player.
He left us to play for a team in a higher division, to test himself at that level and see how far he could go. I wished him well and used to contact him occasionally to see how it was going but I remember being surprised by players on our team who sneerered and sniped behind his back, oh he thinks he's too good for us bla bla bla etc etc.
It was unexpected but also taught me immediately that I didn't really know these players and they weren't worth my time, outside of the team.
Other players had my view and that was great because I knew then who was jealous and bitter and who was happy to see a good guy have a go at something he wanted to do for himself.
Bottom line in all of this story is, anyone who doesn't wish you well isn't really a friend.

On the other side there is of course deciding what you prefer.
But in choosing to stay you might need to reconcile yourself with probable stagnation because if not you will be complaining again about not improving and risk resenting your current club in some ways, but it won't be their fault.

That player returned to play with us the following season cos the bigger club wanted him to train 3 nights a week and be available for 2 matches at the wknd etc etc but which was too much.
So back he came and all was forgiven, even those who had been 2 faced knobs were happy to be playing with him agaim as he improved our team.

End result, he was happy he tried, nothing ventured nothing gained so to speak. He had scratched the itch and now knew what was best for him.

And around him, what he was oblivious to was that I and others learned a shitload about our supposed "teammates", how selfish and uncaring they were, was good to know who to keep at arms length.
No harm was done anywhere and that was that 🤷‍♂️

 

[Zezima]

Nice. You describe a nice environment at a friendly club.
Play league for the club that will improve you and still train with your current club sometimes?

I remember on our football team (over 20 yrs ago) we had a very good player.
He left us to play for a team in a higher division, to test himself at that level and see how far he could go. I wished him well and used to contact him occasionally to see how it was going but I remember being surprised by players on our team who sneerered and sniped behind his back, oh he thinks he's too good for us bla bla bla etc etc.
It was unexpected but also taught me immediately that I didn't really know these players and they weren't worth my time, outside of the team.
Other players had my view and that was great because I knew then who was jealous and bitter and who was happy to see a good guy have a go at something he wanted to do for himself.
Bottom line in all of this story is, anyone who doesn't wish you well isn't really a friend.

On the other side there is of course deciding what you prefer.
But in choosing to stay you might need to reconcile yourself with probable stagnation because if not you will be complaining again about not improving and risk resenting your current club in some ways, but it won't be their fault.

That player returned to play with us the following season cos the bigger club wanted him to train 3 nights a week and be available for 2 matches at the wknd etc etc but which was too much.
So back he came and all was forgiven, even those who had been 2 faced knobs were happy to be playing with him agaim as he improved our team.

End result, he was happy he tried, nothing ventured nothing gained so to speak. He had scratched the itch and now knew what was best for him.

And around him, what he was oblivious to was that I and others learned a shitload about our supposed "teammates", how selfish and uncaring they were, was good to know who to keep at arms length.
No harm was done anywhere and that was that 🤷‍♂️

Yeah sounds like something I would like to do with my current motivation but it's the opposite here. 6Months nothing hard to find good trainingspartner and clubs to train etc. Just the environment is not the best for me.

If I can make it work with my gf I plan to go somewhere else 2-3years from now on maybe not sure. But she is a bit problematic so I want to be here in the first year with her in case we marry and then see how it goes and then go somewhere else idk. But by then I will be around 32 or something. Time is running away...

 

[jk1980]

there are too many "if"s and "when"s with the new club. If you dont even know if they train properly i would not project my own wishes on the other clubs probable environment.

perhaps they are all lazy and dont train properly. What then ? So you can probably still stay member of the old club and join the new one. You need to be open with both clubs that you are still undecided where you want to play and ask the old club not to register you yet for the competition.

It might be a mode of operation that you continue to train with your old club and play matches with the new one (if they dont train properly). perhaps you even have different training days and train at both clubs.

 

[Zezima]

there are too many "if"s and "when"s with the new club. If you dont even know if they train properly i would not project my own wishes on the other clubs probable environment.

perhaps they are all lazy and dont train properly. What then ? So you can probably still stay member of the old club and join the new one. You need to be open with both clubs that you are still undecided where you want to play and ask the old club not to register you yet for the competition.

It might be a mode of operation that you continue to train with your old club and play matches with the new one (if they dont train properly). perhaps you even have different training days and train at both clubs.

Either way I will figure a way to find and train in other clubs. That's less of an issue (only finding good ones that practise frequently is rare)
And yes I want to be open thats why I will talk with my own club first before I talk with others.

 

[Zezima]

Turns out he has the same backstroke as me in a match. Never seen this stroke before I have to admit. He goes from very closed to open and then after hitting the ball close again. But he loads his wrist and follows through (atleast it looks like that)

 

[dingyibvs]

Turns out he has the same backstroke as me in a match. Never seen this stroke before I have to admit. He goes from very closed to open and then after hitting the ball close again. But he loads his wrist and follows through (atleast it looks like that)

You're paying attention to the wrong thing. Racket angle is not very important, it's something people dynamically adjust according to the ball. The goal is always to have a constant racket angle, but when the timing isn't right, and it'll be wrong pretty often, you'll just adjust it. The important thing is that he took a small step to get into a better position to cover his FH immediately after his BH stroke, then took another to get into the best position to play a shot after the ball is actually hit by his opponent, with plenty of time to backswing and with good activation sequence on his forward stroke.

His racket angle adjustments is simply based on his dynamic assessment of the ball. First the ball came slower/shorter than he was preparing for, so he opened up the angle a bit to meet it, then he found the ball to bounce higher than he was preparing for, so he closed the angle to go over it.

 

[StreamOfWater]

You're paying attention to the wrong thing. Racket angle is not very important, it's something people dynamically adjust according to the ball. The goal is always to have a constant racket angle, but when the timing isn't right, and it'll be wrong pretty often, you'll just adjust it. The important thing is that he took a small step to get into a better position to cover his FH immediately after his BH stroke, then took another to get into the best position to play a shot after the ball is actually hit by his opponent, with plenty of time to backswing and with good activation sequence on his forward stroke.

His racket angle adjustments is simply based on his dynamic assessment of the ball. First the ball came slower/shorter than he was preparing for, so he opened up the angle a bit to meet it, then he found the ball to bounce higher than he was preparing for, so he closed the angle to go over it.

Right, that's something I learned myself not long ago. The angle of the racket doesn't matter much... If you want to attack, it must be closed, otherwise it goes out. What I mean is basically that it's wrong to think that if a topspin ball is coming, you must close the racket... If an empty ball comes, you must close even more... If a backspin ball comes, then you must open. If you want to attack, the racket angle must be closed a little for all these options, what matters is direction of force - if it's heavy backspin, you just need to go lower and concentrate the force on the contact. If a player will start playing with angles, consistency is going to get absolutely obliterated...

 

[Zezima]

I think what you mean is starting racket angle doesn't matter because on contact the racket angle does matter and decides how much forwards and upwards motion you can apply on the ball.

Maybe we can get a pros insight on this.

 

[StreamOfWater]

I think what you mean is starting racket angle doesn't matter because on contact the racket angle does matter and decides how much forwards and upwards motion you can apply on the ball.

Maybe we can get a pros insight on this.

It's an amateur mistake, overcomplicating the sport... If you are attacking a topspin ball or a backspin ball, the angle should be the same, closed. What matters is the direction of a force, for backspin ball you would go down more, and up, instead of forward. The moment you begin playing a lot with angles is the moment you start losing a lot of consistency, it's basically a fault in technique. The fault implies that your force (acceleration into the ball) isn't concentrated, meaning your kinetic chain is weak and you cannot produce a lot of your own spin, you cannot dig into the rubber enough and sink the ball... Which is likely the case because on forehand side you mostly brush and hit with your arm, there's barely any to none of legs and waist rotation, only sometimes. There is almost 0 explosiveness. Observe the racket angles of pros during different balls/strokes and you'll notice that the racket angle generally doesn't change much. Your racket angle needs to be mostly stable

 

[Zezima]

It's an amateur mistake, overcomplicating the sport... If you are attacking a topspin ball or a backspin ball, the angle should be the same, closed. What matters is the direction of a force, for backspin ball you would go down more, and up, instead of forward. The moment you begin playing a lot with angles is the moment you start losing a lot of consistency, it's basically a fault in technique. The fault implies that your force (acceleration into the ball) isn't concentrated, meaning your kinetic chain is weak and you cannot produce a lot of your own spin, you cannot dig into the rubber enough and sink the ball... Which is likely the case because on forehand side you mostly brush and hit with your arm, there's barely any to none of legs and waist rotation, only sometimes. There is almost 0 explosiveness. Observe the racket angles of pros during different balls/strokes and you'll notice that the racket angle generally doesn't change much. Your racket angle needs to be mostly stable

I just showed you an "extreme" example closed open closed again.

I watch many games and I still keep seeing maybe not so extreme but still. So from my obderrvation it does change and it makes sense that it does because they have to hit the balls from a harder position. Here I am talking about matchplay and not training videos of the pros btw.

I can post more examples once I find the time to watch more videos!

 

[NextLevel]

It's an amateur mistake, overcomplicating the sport... If you are attacking a topspin ball or a backspin ball, the angle should be the same, closed. What matters is the direction of a force, for backspin ball you would go down more, and up, instead of forward. The moment you begin playing a lot with angles is the moment you start losing a lot of consistency, it's basically a fault in technique. The fault implies that your force (acceleration into the ball) isn't concentrated, meaning your kinetic chain is weak and you cannot produce a lot of your own spin, you cannot dig into the rubber enough and sink the ball... Which is likely the case because on forehand side you mostly brush and hit with your arm, there's barely any to none of legs and waist rotation, only sometimes. There is almost 0 explosiveness. Observe the racket angles of pros during different balls/strokes and you'll notice that the racket angle generally doesn't change much. Your racket angle needs to be mostly stable

This is somewhat true but also not the full story. Pros change their racket angles and contact points quite a bit. In any case, the bottom line is to do what works for you. Many people know how to analyze pros do, but haven't gone through the complicated process of building an adult learning table tennis player, many of who are not top tier athletes. When you do, you will find that the sport is simplified a bit by what you consider complicated.

What you are saying is that stroke trajectory, which is influenced by many things, is the main determinant of the racket angle. But this doesn't make the racket angle unimportant.

That said, I agree with the main point dingyibvs was making - the backswing often looks closed when you take the racket back far enough.

 

[StreamOfWater]

This is somewhat true but also not the full story. Pros change their racket angles and contact points quite a bit. In any case, the bottom line is to do what works for you. Many people know how to analyze pros do, but haven't gone through the complicated process of building an adult learning table tennis player, many of who are not top tier athletes. When you do, you will find that the sport is simplified a bit by what you consider complicated.

What you are saying is that stroke trajectory, which is influenced by many things, is the main determinant of the racket angle. But this doesn't make the racket angle unimportant.

That said, I agree with the main point dingyibvs was making - the backswing often looks closed when you take the racket back far enough.

Never said it is unimportant, it plays a role, however, it shouldn't be main concern

 

[StreamOfWater]

I just showed you an "extreme" example closed open closed again.

I watch many games and I still keep seeing maybe not so extreme but still. So from my obderrvation it does change and it makes sense that it does because they have to hit the balls from a harder position. Here I am talking about matchplay and not training videos of the pros btw.

I can post more examples once I find the time to watch more videos!

It seems like you are focused too much on that one occasion. To me, this quick alternation of angle multiple times implies that the player initially misjudged the trajectory of the ball and for that split moment he was indecisive, it happens sometimes... There is really no reason to do that, it's wasted and unnecessary movement with no purpose

 

[Zezima]

I agree with @NextLevel that you should go for what works for you.
For me I got much more "consistent" after following the tutorial of that coach in that 1550TTR video. Loading up the wrist and then -> this part here is more important that at the contact you follow through with the wrist. I also keep doing this exercise with the 5 different speeds and I just play better later that day in a match.

Right now I have a hard time going to 5 (fastest) with my trainingspartners because they fail to block 1-3 back because I generate so much spin even with lesser speed. Next session I want to focus more on 4-5 and will just accept the fact that the "rally" will be over. Because I am still not as consistent at 5 as I am at 1-3. But I finally remember that "feel" when I hit the ball right. So I will just try to reproduce that feeling. I do the same with my backhand aswell.

I also played a match with a 1600 (he is the friend of our youth player that went out on loan to his team) they trained in our club. I went 9-11 in the 5th set and just realized how much more fun it is with someone that plays similiar but jsut a tad more consistent? Longer rallys and overall. I was struggeling to block his spinny loops more and that was the difference maker at the end. I really need to get exposed more to these types of players because I can't simulate that with my current trainingspartners. I also felt the nervousness a bit and maybe tried too hard to beat him so I made more loop mistakes than if I were not nervous at all. So it was more matchspecific situation for me which I normally don't have during the training. That alone was worth it.

 

[NextLevel]

I agree with @NextLevel that you should go for what works for you.
For me I got much more "consistent" after following the tutorial of that coach in that 1550TTR video. Loading up the wrist and then -> this part here is more important that at the contact you follow through with the wrist. I also keep doing this exercise with the 5 different speeds and I just play better later that day in a match.

Right now I have a hard time going to 5 (fastest) with my trainingspartners because they fail to block 1-3 back because I generate so much spin even with lesser speed. Next session I want to focus more on 4-5 and will just accept the fact that the "rally" will be over. Because I am still not as consistent at 5 as I am at 1-3. But I finally remember that "feel" when I hit the ball right. So I will just try to reproduce that feeling. I do the same with my backhand aswell.

I also played a match with a 1600 (he is the friend of our youth player that went out on loan to his team) they trained in our club. I went 9-11 in the 5th set and just realized how much more fun it is with someone that plays similiar but jsut a tad more consistent? Longer rallys and overall. I was struggeling to block his spinny loops more and that was the difference maker at the end. I really need to get exposed more to these types of players because I can't simulate that with my current trainingspartners. I also felt the nervousness a bit and maybe tried too hard to beat him so I made more loop mistakes than if I were not nervous at all. So it was more matchspecific situation for me which I normally don't have during the training. That alone was worth it.

Levels 1 to 5 as seen in the video is multiball. It is to simulate different degrees of effort on an opening topspin. In reality, no one is going to be looping levels 1 to 5 in a match because you only get that one loop vs backspin to open the rally unless you are playing a chopper.

If you are using that with more wrist against block, you may actually find that levels 4 and 5 are easier to block because most players are used to faster loops with lower angles of incidence vs slower loops that affect and throw off their timing. Also, the more quality on the ball, the riskier it is to impart spin on it close to the table without precise timing and practice. Finally, once a player develops good blocking technique, it is easier to bring back good loops as long as they are consistently placed even at max power. It really isn't about playing level so much as consistently controlled quality in placement from the attacker and then just not moving the racket so much from the blocker. But if their blocking technique is crap, then they just need to fix that.

That said, I may have misunderstood what you are practicing.

 

[Table10Ice]

Either way I will figure a way to find and train in other clubs. That's less of an issue (only finding good ones that practise frequently is rare)
And yes I want to be open thats why I will talk with my own club first before I talk with others.

How did it go, Zezima? The 25/26 season would have started by now. Did you change clubs?

 

[Zezima]

How did it go, Zezima? The 25/26 season would have started by now. Did you change clubs?

Yes it has started I am currently 2W/6L against the top 2 Teams (3 match days).
I didn't have another G09c sheet for my Forehand but another D09c instead but I don't like my setup anymore. It doesn't give me confidence anymore but that might be also because I am not training as much and the new sheets are still very hard.

To answer your question yes I changed clubs and play at the highest league in my county now.
Right now I am trying to fix my blister problems(foot ball and toes a little) and in search for a new shoe and thinking about paying 25€ to buy wrightsocks. Also buying a new personal made insole from shoemaker to assist my feet which was very expensive aswell.

 

[Zezima]

ok just a quick update. I fixed my blister problems now. I got a new insole, new double layered socks, and new shoes half a size smaller than what I usually go for on mizuno.
My foot is not hurting anymore only the insole at the beginning.

Right now I just have "Pes-Anserinus-Sehnenreizung" I think?? on my left knee. Which is a bit annoying. I wonder how its gonna feel injury/pain free at this point lol.

 

[Zezima]

Also half season in the highest county League that I currently play is over. 2nd Half gonna start around end of January.
My stats 9-13. Rating stood the same as I ended in the previous league (A good sign I would say).
Highlight was the yearly tournament which I won in "B" including beating my 2 teammates ~same rating as me.
Changing my FH Rubber from d09c to g09c and then now since last 2-3weeks to H3n 39° 2,1mm

Focus till January:
- Improve my fh: From closed to open -> Open to closed -> Robot/ Multiball starting very slow
- Standing further away from the table
- Attacking/Smashing more on serve receives and weak pushes/drives from my opponents disregarding a lot of misses in the beginning
- Doing more Drills like opening up against backspin and then killing the next Ball that they block.
- Not being afraid going for winners with the bh (much better than fh for some reason but I almost never use it in matches)

I will also attend 4 days camp in germany.

 

[Lungfish]

Hello guys,
I have been busy trying to find different trainingspartner lately to improve my game (in my club its hard ).

1)
Currently I feel like my opening loops is good.
a) Loop to Block mistake <-- Big Problem. I slowed it down and I seem to hit it at 2 o´clock. To me it sounds fine. yes 1 o clock would be better but also I see pro players hit a countertopspin at 2 o clock how do they do it?

Basically I force my opponent to block me the ball back but I can´t hit the next ball hard with spin because it flys over the table. Do I have to contact the ball more thinly?

b) Another mistake trying to spin the ball
How can I hit these balls "harder" without it going out? I have enough time


2)
a) Countertopspin mistake
I don´t understand this at all. Sometimes I make it and it´s an instant point winner and sometimes like this it just goes into the net even though my stroke goes forwards (and hips rotate)
b) Good example where it worked - but it looks almost the same. I just need to understand better why it worked here and it didnt work there( 2a) ).

3) Another mistake trying to go hard on a ball I want to end
How do Pros hit those balls(at the end) with a more open racket even? and bring it back on table even.


Highlight of the day:
Here I feel like it only worked because I attacked from mid distance.
vs Noah 1st Set


I think my mistakes are repetitive. I feel like I am still moving very bad towards my "wide" forehand and push a lot of balls with my FH that I should open up instead.
I liked my backhand a lot and the fact that I open up with it a lot without being scared. Not many mistakes opening up either.
Seem to struggle alot vs block balls.

What are your thoughts? Here is the link for all 3 games:
Feel free to suggest me Drills (started with Falkenberg last week) or any other Drills and especially how to fix those "stupid" mistakes I keep doing especially after I force my opponent to block.
All 3 games

I have an idea for a solution to take out a couple of these problems quickly.
Idea: Take the ball faster off of the bounce. Learn how to counter well. You can study Koki Niwa's game as he does this well.

This strategy fixes...
- Power
bc taking a ball faster gives you more speed without having to hit flatly.
- Difficulty returning blocks
A shorter stroke means better consistency
-Counter-topspinning
Obviously, practicing quick counters will make you better at counters.

Remember that a shorter stroke will help you in topspin rallies.
That's what I've got, hope it can help. 👍