Feedback on my loops against backspin

[Novarac23]

So I have noticed that I have issues doing a fh or bh loop/topspin when someone does an underspin. If its topspin and or a flat ball my loops (especially on the forehand) are fine.

Here’s a video of me doing forehand / backhand agains “medium” underspin on the robot. Feel free to provide any feedback you have!

 

[Novarac23]

Also feel free to fast forward, I didn’t do any edits oh and I was a bit nervous because I knew camera was rolling 😂

 

[lodro]

I just think you need another 2000 shots otherwise it's all good.

 

[Novarac23]

I just think you need another 2000 shots otherwise it's all good.

Agreed need to work on it more but getting there. Thank you for the feedback!

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

From this far-away angle, my initial impression was, whoa, either Patrick Franziska or Dima doing the loops. You have similar physique as them. But then, looking at the way the person in camera doing the loops, I realized it couldn't have been either one of them.

Back to the loops, you are hesitating. Go all out man... complete your stroke, add more POWAR! MOARRRRRRR POWARRRRRR!

 

[Novarac23]

agreed! just wanted to make sure I can get over the net properly with underspin and now will work on adding more heat 🔥 I’m super comfortable with adding all the power that I have to non underspin (topspin and flat) shots but for some reason get nervous when there’s underspin so trying to get more comfortable

oh and thank you for the Dima/Patrick compliment 😂

 

[NextLevel]

There are many things not quite right with the technique and/or the feed. The backhand for example seems to be played over the table and in general, quality topspins over the table require a different technique. In general, the technique here is likely to be working on both forehand and backhand because you are getting used to the ball the robot is feeding and not because it is safe or optimal, it would be good to see you alternate one backspin loop and one topspin loop in order to see how your stroke really changes and how you adapt to the ball.

 

[Novarac23]

There are many things not quite right with the technique and/or the feed. The backhand for example seems to be played over the table and in general, quality topspins over the table require a different technique. In general, the technique here is likely to be working on both forehand and backhand because you are getting used to the ball the robot is feeding and not because it is safe or optimal, it would be good to see you alternate one backspin loop and one topspin loop in order to see how your stroke really changes and how you adapt to the ball.

Thank you for the feedback! Will try and alternate next time! Generally I don’t find alternating between shots a huge problem but not sure whats going to happen in the underspin scenario

 

[NextLevel]

From this far-away angle, my initial impression was, whoa, either Patrick Franziska or Dima doing the loops. You have similar physique as them. But then, looking at the way the person in camera doing the loops, I realized it couldn't have been either one of them.

Back to the loops, you are hesitating. Go all out man... complete your stroke, add more POWAR! MOARRRRRRR POWARRRRRR!View attachment 30478

This is often a mistake when attacking backspin, the instruction should be to add more spin. In qny case the technique itself looks inadequate to consistently attack backspin as the key elements to compensate for bacjspin are not obvious to me.

 

[NextLevel]

Thank you for the feedback! Will try and alternate next time! Generally I don’t find alternating between shots a huge problem but not sure whats going to happen in the underspin scenario

The thing is that backspin technique and topspin or Block technique are obviously different when you watch a player adjust, but it isn't obvious what you are doing to adjust hence my request. In fact, it is common to adapt to backspin and then start missing topspin vs block because the modifications for backspin are not effective vs block or topspin. The swing path/plane for backspin tends to be a bit more vertical than that for topspin or block, so usually one lunges or squats to a lower position vs backspin than topspin so that the swing has more room to lift and still come forward. Maybe your backspin is light but I don't see the modifications.

 

[Novarac23]

The thing is that backspin technique and topspin or Block technique are obviously different when you watch a player adjust, but it isn't obvious what you are doing to adjust hence my request. In fact, it is common ti adapt to backspin and the start missing topspin vs block because the modifications for backspin are not effective vs block or topspin. The swing path/plane for backspin tends to be a bit more vertical than that for topspin or block, so usually one lunges or squats to a lower position vs backspin than topspin so that the swing has more room to lift and still come forward. Maybe your backspin is light but I don't see the modifications.

Fair points, thank you! There was backspin on the ball and I definitely had to get lower then I would if I was to hit topspin. I’m 6’4 so it might not look like im squatting but I am 😂 next time I’ll try and get it filmed from a different angle maybe that will help! again thank you, feedback is much appreciated!

 

[NextLevel]

Fair points, thank you! There was backspin on the ball and I definitely had to get lower then I would if I was to hit topspin. I’m 6’4 so it might not look like im squatting but I am 😂 next time I’ll try and get it filmed from a different angle maybe that will help! again thank you, feedback is much appreciated!

Not at all, you're welcome. Just film the same session but with the robot feeding topspin balls and that might be sufficient to see the modifications. Good luck.

 

[ck1407]

So I have noticed that I have issues doing a fh or bh loop/topspin when someone does an underspin. If its topspin and or a flat ball my loops (especially on the forehand) are fine.

Here’s a video of me doing forehand / backhand agains “medium” underspin on the robot. Feel free to provide any feedback you have!

Base on the video, your wrist seems a bit stiff. You should try to let your wrist go as loose as possible so you can increase your range of motion in your wrist.

Let your wrist be in charge of the brushing motion while your forearm be in charge of providing the acceleration of the stroke. Image your arm like a whip and a loose wrist will help to provide the snap effect

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

There are many things not quite right with the technique and/or the feed. The backhand for example seems to be played over the table and in general, quality topspins over the table require a different technique.

Over the table spin. I am thinking out loud, perhaps if one were to use a tacky / hybrid rubber, it would be easier to BH spin short / over the table ball.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

NextLevel made some good points. I actually think, you will learn more from footage where there is a living person on the other side of the table. Find someone to do drills where you serve backspin, they push backspin to either your FH or your BH and you loop the push.

If you loop the push and your training partner can get your loop back, then we will also be able to see how you adjust from looping vs backspin to handling a topspin ball on the next shot.

PS: the robot's feed is weird and you will never get balls like that from a human and you will never get balls that are the same spin and consistently in pretty much the same spot with the same speed and arc.

Robots are good for something. But not for seeing what you actually want to see. Good luck.

 

[mocker88]

Like ck1407 said. You'll have to use the wrist better in both BH and FH, and put some more power and speed into these strokes. Like Carl mentioned. The robot gives you weird balls too, so it would be much better with a human opponent to get the "flow" in playing.

When working with turning backspin, you'll have to think about how you should turn the backspin. You have brush the ball more to engage sponge/top sheet and to put in more power than what you get from the robot/person so your shot will go back with good top spin and arc. I think your FH was quite good in some strokes regarding this, but in many strokes it was less good. Your BH have this issue in many strokes, so work hard with that wrist in a "forwarding arc" movement when hitting the ball (BH). I think the first stroke in the video is really nice, and you have more of a brushing hit, compared to the second one which is not that good. Focus on hitting the ball like the first one, and you'll get the spin as well, and you see that on the ball too.

And maybe check out a slower/softer more linear rubber for BH as it gives you more time with the ball on the rubber and less bounce and lets you practice the wrist movement better.

Keep up the good work

 

[SleepyMaster]

You will be having kind of normal stroke if it would be more upward to lift down spin and the one your are doing is looking more like a regular backhand loop. You need to spin/brush more - to get more of an arc and safety. That’s why partially your strokes are so inconsistent.

It’s okay to train on a robot but it is a lot more useful when you have solid understanding about what are you doing and with coach or more experienced partner - to guide you better through technique. Otherwise you can programming some unnecessary things to your muscle memory and they can be very hard to rid off in the future

 

[Aizen]

Most noticeable thing is Timing

You are hitting too early almost you won’t even wait the bounce.

Also position is a bit too close for this kind of shot. When you wait a little longer, hitting point will be too closer to your body.

And you can practice slower at first until you comfortably hit& brush, not a killer shot.

 

[jk1980]

You can already hear when you dont properly loop against backspin. Everytime you get this high pitch "smash" sound you are actually trying to hit it over instead of spinning it over. The sound would be much more muted and more of a "fob" sound when you spin it instead of "hitting it". This is mainly true for your over the table "topspins" against backspins, which are not using the "loop backspin technique", but rather more of a "flick over the table against slight backspin or nospin".

Adding power is the WORST advice that you have gotten here, because that will not solve the technical problem. You can overpower certain amount of low backspin with the correct angle and enough force, but there is a level of backspin that you will simply not be able to overpower without using the correct technique to apply equal or more acceleration with your topspin against the amount of backspin in the ball.

what kind of robot is that ? If it is a butterfly one, you should at least use backspin of 2 or greater to actually get backspin balls.
If you set it to -1 on the topspin/backspin scale it will be very low backspin which anybody can hit through. You can see that by the way the text or brand sign on the ball is visible on these balls. If you can't see the markers on the ball the spin is probably enough to train against.

 

[JJ Ng]

My two cents:

for your backhand, you can use some serious leg movements. You were simply moving your elbow. Yes you bent your knees but you did not unbent it on the way into looping that backspin.

Forehand, it seems that you do use some legs into the ball. So that's good.

Timing is everything in table tennis. Every person I talk to, in order to learn loop, should learn to loop with the ball on the way down. Let me put it this way. What is the point of loop? It is to pull the ball up and impart spin on the ball. So why would you learn to loop while the ball is on the way up? If the ball is on the way up, then you either block or flip the ball. You would not "loop" the ball.

Anyway, with plastic balls, the ball loses a lot of spin. So as the ball rises and then peaks and then goes down, the ball actually loses a lot of spin along the way. Therefore it is a good habit to learn how to loop the ball as the ball descends.

Once you get that loop down, then you loop the ball at the peak. Then finally if you are very ambitious you can loop the ball on the way up, almost over the table. But many players reach good levels just by looping backspin balls on the way down or at their peak.

I loop the ball on the way down in doubles a lot because in doubles, there are four people taking turns imparting spins on the ball. Sometimes I really have a hard time judging the spin on the ball and I simply wait..wait...wait..and then loop the ball on the way down. That's pretty much it.