How to play against flat hitter?

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Recently I play against a few penhold SP hitters, some on Primprac carbon some on Viscaria, so if they hit it's fast as light. Against them I just use a lot of low underspin. They mostly hit the ball in the net or push a higher for me which then I flat hit 😏

Easiest way is to dismantle them is to serve fast long and short serves with heavy cut. Alternate randomly between these.

In my experience they only flat hit slowand fairly high balls consistently if it's a bit faster of lower ball they will more often miss.

They're kind of fun to play against this style since it's a good reflex test to try to block their massive smashes.
 
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The hardest part of this thread is the implication that a "hitter" is not a proper style of table tennis. Of course it is different, but it is a traditional and respected (well at least by me) style.
The second is the arbitrary separation of hitting from looping. Topspin is on a continuum.
A mindset of respecting all opponents-ESPECIALLY THE ONES WHO BEAT YOU (lol) goes a long way into one's own improvement.

Best advice given so far: use placement-short FH, long BH, play the hip etc.
Second best advice is no spin or dead ball options.

Yep. When someone beats you, one way or another, they are better than you. :)

That is part of why the goon squad has shown up.
 
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No, and i never will, since it's against the rules. I want to learn full chinese technique, otherwise i would buy D05 or any other euro rubber and it would be easier to play. But i don't want an easy way, i want to master the hard way and reap more benefits in the late transformation, with more speed and spin. And ofc, i'm kinda far away from it right now and asking for advice.
Players in my club are mostly veterans 45+, exactly 0 of them can loop the ball either with top spin or back spin at all. But they all smash like crazy and have a really good ball feeling. I don't want to play like that, i'm trying to learn the proper and correct techniques, and looping against flat hitters is kinda hard on not very high level.

To me, it sounds like you have some ideas in your head that are not based in reality that will hold you back.

It is fine to want to loop. To learn. To develop. But your idea about what IS correct and wanting to "master the hard way...", I think you would benefit from a coach who can tell what you actually need to work on and what equipment would benefit you best.

I know more than a few players who wanted to master Chinese technique and had a bunch of ideas in their head that were not based on how those Chinese players developed to where they are today and the misunderstandings caused injuries like wrist and shoulder. It is risky to try and base your ideas about technique on stuff you see on the internet.

All of those top Chinese players who are amazing and have wildly good FHs, it is worth seeing how they developed that technique they have from age 4-6, from age 6-10, age 10-15.....Their technique is more complex than it appears and most of them, their stroke is shorter when they are closer to the table and need more time (not when they don't need more time though) from when they don't need more time or when they are farther from the table.

H3 is a rubber with a sponge that is meant to be boosted. You can play with it without boosting. But then there are other things you could use that would be more beneficial TO YOUR DEVELOPING GOOD TECHNIQUE AND SOLID STROKES. Boosting is a huge hassle. That is part of why I stopped using it years ago. But it is a great rubber. There is no reason to handicap yourself and use it in a way it was not intended to be used. For HIGH LEVEL PLAY, if you want that, H3 is intended to be boosted.

Can anyone think of a reasonably high level modern looping player who uses H3 and does not boost it?

Older folks who have limited range of movement because they are getting older, they often use interesting technique to stay high level while not being able to do what they did when they were younger. It is worth respecting those guys with great touch and limited range of movement who can still maintain a relatively high level of play EVEN when you don't want to play like them.

Learn to loop. Choose equipment that is suitable for your goals. These are good things. But try not to handicap yourself based on ideals that are not based on reality. We play this sport/game because it is fun. We work to get better because it is fun and a great learning experience. Everyone when they are in an early stage of learning has misunderstandings about what will actually make them a better player. This is why good mentors (higher level players you play with who help you improve) and good coaches, are really valuable to seek out and find in a sport like TT which is soooooo much about skill and technique. Athletic ability has its place. But even when you have that in TT, you still have to have the subtle details of refined technique if you want to get to higher levels of play.

And those flat hitting players who are still high level, well, that is just a different skill set. But one that it is worth developing the tools to play against; and that means more than just simply tactics. If the player is good, he will recognize the tactics and adjust. So your tactics would also need to stay a step ahead of your opponent's adjustments.
 
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No, and i never will, since it's against the rules. I want to learn full chinese technique, otherwise i would buy D05 or any other euro rubber and it would be easier to play. But i don't want an easy way, i want to master the hard way and reap more benefits in the late transformation, with more speed and spin. And ofc, i'm kinda far away from it right now and asking for advice.
Players in my club are mostly veterans 45+, exactly 0 of them can loop the ball either with top spin or back spin at all. But they all smash like crazy and have a really good ball feeling. I don't want to play like that, i'm trying to learn the proper and correct techniques, and looping against flat hitters is kinda hard on not very high level.
You seem to have a lot of notions and preconceptions about table tennis that come from the ERT fan club. This is a very artificial way to play and understand table tennis - it's much more realistic to find a good player/coach in the club who matches your temperament to mentor and coach you and then test and change things as you understand the sport better. If unwilling or unable to do that and you want to get better by yourself, don't listen to people who you have never seen play and who are not talking about developing players who play at your current level. Find someone who has developed players (possibly themselves) who can help you understand how the process really works.

You can learn full "Chinese technique" which should really just be good technique with just about any modern rubber, the real question is whether you have a feeling of good ball control with whatever you are using. Since equipment is always something you adapt to, it is better to use something you know a good player around you uses or understand so you can learn to adapt to it with guidance, and then forge your own path as you get more experienced.
 
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No, and i never will, since it's against the rules. I want to learn full chinese technique, otherwise i would buy D05 or any other euro rubber and it would be easier to play. But i don't want an easy way, i want to master the hard way and reap more benefits in the late transformation, with more speed and spin. And ofc, i'm kinda far away from it right now and asking for advice.
Players in my club are mostly veterans 45+, exactly 0 of them can loop the ball either with top spin or back spin at all. But they all smash like crazy and have a really good ball feeling. I don't want to play like that, i'm trying to learn the proper and correct techniques, and looping against flat hitters is kinda hard on not very high level.
Hi Synapse,

there have been excellent answers already by @UpSideDownCarl and @NextLevel, but I still would like to share my advice with you.

When I picked up table tennis again a few years ago, I used to think like you. Not wanting the easy way, but the proper way, learning with h3 and getting great fundamentals that will bring long term benefit. I did not really have a coach except like once per month so I played with h3 for about 18 months and taught myself by asking other players in my facility or by watching youtube videos etc.

I dont know your playing level but you sound like you are a beginner who is still mastering basic techniques. Let me tell you, h3 is a very demanding rubber that is meant to be boosted. Without boosting, you cannot even experience the true potential of the rubber, and everyone who plays on a higher level is boosting. Boosting is also very annoying because you have to do it quite often, and its not easy to get the same results everytime.

Now, in table tennis, it is difficult to learn the proper movements, footwork and stroke mechanics, especially if you dont start at a young age. People like me who relearned the game in their 20s need alot of time to figure the details out, and it is very easy to do things the wrong way and form bad habits. That is why having a coach or good players around you is very important. If I look back at my journey, I did improve alot with h3 and it also taught me how to really impact the ball properly. However, now thinking back, I dont think its a wise decision at all to start your journey with these rubbers.

The thing is, for most players that I know (including me), it is VERY difficult to bring out the maximum potential of h3. You need a really good acceleration and a strong impact + great brushing motion to create the truly dangerous balls. For example, when I play 60-70% or lower effort shots with h3 the quality in terms of spin/speed is inferior in comparison with the best tensor rubbers. We still use h3 because it is so damn good in serve-receive and that is probably the most important aspect of table tennis. Once you actually master how to properly impact + brush, you quickly realize that looping with h3 close to the table is so much work because you need this crazy acceleration or the feedback from the sponge is just crap, while the spin is truly mediocre.

What I am trying to say is, especially without coaches, it will take a long time to just learn the fundamentals of the game. h3 does not help to learn the fundamentals faster but kind creates bad habits at times because new players really fight the ball to somehow get it over the net. I would recommend to use normal tensor rubbers that are popular like fastarc g1, get a coach and go from there. There is an argument to make that you will improve faster with tensor rubbers because you can focus more on learning the fundamentals while the rubber supports you doing that instead of working against you. Once I got better and felt confident in my skills and techniques, I realized that h3 is nothing special unless you boost alot (then its the best, but such a nuisance). If you really insist on h3, boost on fh but use a tensor rubber on the backhand side.

I know a bunch of higher rated amateurs that practise really hard, and they boost their h3s ALOT. In my case, I also often practise 4-5 times per week, and outside of serve-receive I am theoretically much better off with another rubber because it is just not easy to make it work. I already struggled to put third ball attacks behind my opponent because I was not fast enough the get into perfect position to make a very fast ball.

Basically, I dont want to discourage you from using h3 but atleast I wanted to offer you another perspective on it. For most amateurs, it is not a magical rubber that you will create insane spin with if you just practise hard enough.
 
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Hi Synapse,

there have been excellent answers already by @UpSideDownCarl and @NextLevel, but I still would like to share my advice with you.

When I picked up table tennis again a few years ago, I used to think like you. Not wanting the easy way, but the proper way, learning with h3 and getting great fundamentals that will bring long term benefit. I did not really have a coach except like once per month so I played with h3 for about 18 months and taught myself by asking other players in my facility or by watching youtube videos etc.

I dont know your playing level but you sound like you are a beginner who is still mastering basic techniques. Let me tell you, h3 is a very demanding rubber that is meant to be boosted. Without boosting, you cannot even experience the true potential of the rubber, and everyone who plays on a higher level is boosting. Boosting is also very annoying because you have to do it quite often, and its not easy to get the same results everytime.

Now, in table tennis, it is difficult to learn the proper movements, footwork and stroke mechanics, especially if you dont start at a young age. People like me who relearned the game in their 20s need alot of time to figure the details out, and it is very easy to do things the wrong way and form bad habits. That is why having a coach or good players around you is very important. If I look back at my journey, I did improve alot with h3 and it also taught me how to really impact the ball properly. However, now thinking back, I dont think its a wise decision at all to start your journey with these rubbers.

The thing is, for most players that I know (including me), it is VERY difficult to bring out the maximum potential of h3. You need a really good acceleration and a strong impact + great brushing motion to create the truly dangerous balls. For example, when I play 60-70% or lower effort shots with h3 the quality in terms of spin/speed is inferior in comparison with the best tensor rubbers. We still use h3 because it is so damn good in serve-receive and that is probably the most important aspect of table tennis. Once you actually master how to properly impact + brush, you quickly realize that looping with h3 close to the table is so much work because you need this crazy acceleration or the feedback from the sponge is just crap, while the spin is truly mediocre.

What I am trying to say is, especially without coaches, it will take a long time to just learn the fundamentals of the game. h3 does not help to learn the fundamentals faster but kind creates bad habits at times because new players really fight the ball to somehow get it over the net. I would recommend to use normal tensor rubbers that are popular like fastarc g1, get a coach and go from there. There is an argument to make that you will improve faster with tensor rubbers because you can focus more on learning the fundamentals while the rubber supports you doing that instead of working against you. Once I got better and felt confident in my skills and techniques, I realized that h3 is nothing special unless you boost alot (then its the best, but such a nuisance). If you really insist on h3, boost on fh but use a tensor rubber on the backhand side.

I know a bunch of higher rated amateurs that practise really hard, and they boost their h3s ALOT. In my case, I also often practise 4-5 times per week, and outside of serve-receive I am theoretically much better off with another rubber because it is just not easy to make it work. I already struggled to put third ball attacks behind my opponent because I was not fast enough the get into perfect position to make a very fast ball.

Basically, I dont want to discourage you from using h3 but atleast I wanted to offer you another perspective on it. For most amateurs, it is not a magical rubber that you will create insane spin with if you just practise hard enough.
Adding to this excellent comment, I would add that if you have suboptimal technique and use unboosted Hurricane, it is very easy to injure yourself because you need to put in too much work compared to a boosted Hurricane or a tensor rubber). Whereas you can relax more and focus even more on proper technique with a tensor rubber.

There are literally no high level players who uses Hurricane without boosting that I know of.
 
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The hardest part of this thread is the implication that a "hitter" is not a proper style of table tennis. Of course it is different, but it is a traditional and respected (well at least by me) style.
The second is the arbitrary separation of hitting from looping. Topspin is on a continuum.
A mindset of respecting all opponents-ESPECIALLY THE ONES WHO BEAT YOU (lol) goes a long way into one's own improvement.

Best advice given so far: use placement-short FH, long BH, play the hip etc.
Second best advice is no spin or dead ball options.
Ol' Van... advocating that HITTING is a valid and acceptable play style that requires skills...

What is the man thinking ???!!!

Obviously some very fair and good thinking. :D
 
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