First setup for basement player

[PalioT]

Agree with @Brs . Please don't waste your time and money on changing equipment. It doesn't make much of the different than the one you have now. Check very good feedback you got here; train more with the robot and you will get better.

 

[Tomboov247]

If you could recommend something a tiny bit faster than Mark V, what would it be? 😇

A more modern Mark V Xiom Musa - a bit faster and a bit more spin, that's why I recommended it. AK47 is fast but very spin insensitive and very controllable - it is a perfect option for a beginner who is training to get used to fast rubbers because it's as fast as tensors but not as bouncy and it's very direct - the ball simply goes exactly where you want it to. I still can beat anyone I normally beat 11-8 with Xiom Musa and AK47, they're excellent

 

[Tomboov247]

Another EJ is born. The Sweden Extra with 2 x rakza 7 was a perfectly good choice.

You can get slower and less sensitive to spin, and you can get more and more of that. You landed near the middle, but leaning towards relatively less speed more spin. [compared to the universe of popular equipment]

To me this is the ideal balance for a beginner who wants to learn to play looper style. I coach a friend who started from zero this year. Her first custom bat is a Ma Lin Soft carbon with 2 x rozena. Basically the same effect as your first setup.

If EJing makes you happy then go for it. Like you said in the OP - TT is just a fun hobby - you will not be pro. If you want to improve quickly, spend the equipment money on some lessons with that good coach you found for your son. Or any good coach. You will be glad you did.

very good advice! Rozena is a good choice too

 

[Pe-ter]

Another EJ is born.

Can confirm, guilty in all charges. That have been my case even back then when I was just pretending playing darts (having more than 50 different sets of darts at a time). Same goes with guitars (because I'm idiot I guess 🤷‍♂️).

Unfortunately it is also the case now. I hear what all of you are saying and it makes a lot of sense. My focus should go towards adapting to the current setup and not wasting money on finding the setup that matches my abilities.
However...the order has been placed and now I don't want to be that 🛎🔚 that would cancel it. Especially if it needs to be shipped all the way from Germany. At least I'd go with the blade only and figure the rubbers later on.

You landed near the middle, but leaning towards relatively less speed more spin

Yes, the reason for that is the playing style of most of my opponents. In lower leagues people tend to play lot's of "ugly" table tennis (e.g. relying on side spin/pushes/slicing back spin,... and barely switching to drives and rallies). In this kind of a game, the Rakza 7 is a bit unpredictable (maybe bit too spin sensitive for me). Hard to explain, but like I'd have issues with getting along with that rubber. Sometimes I land a perfect shot that no one was expecting, but on many occasions I loose an easy point because the ball flies over the table or into the net.

Agree with @Brs . Please don't waste your time and money on changing equipment. It doesn't make much of the different than the one you have now. Check very good feedback you got here; train more with the robot and you will get better.

THIS ☝

 

[riemsesy]

kid @ my club started playing August last year (2023) Never played before. He started with a racket the club lend him. After one month he bought a pre-assembled Joola carbon pro, with Joola Micron rubbers on it for € 90 or something.
That is what he trained and played with last year..
he joined our team to play competition last season and his rating went from 0 to 1100 (NL), that's serious progress.
next season he'll leave our team to join 3rd or 2nd class. A few weeks back he stepped in for another guy in our second team and he won 2 matches at that level. All with a premade.
Just last month he bought a second hand BTY blade from another member, to make progress. He says.. it's faster but he doesn't actually care.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

If you are not using Butterfly product; you are just a basement player

If you are using Butterfly product; you are a Hobby Player - Gozo

Gozo: Helping EJs since 2021.

 

[riemsesy]

If you are not using Butterfly product; you are just a basement player

If you are using Butterfly product; you are a Hobby Player - Gozo

Gozo: Helping EJs since 2021.

you mean Butterfly products.. <- plural.. I thought you were helping EJ's.. but mentioning BTY in single form, makes me wonder if you really are an EJ 😁

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

you mean Butterfly products.. <- plural.. I thought you were helping EJ's.. but mentioning BTY in single form, makes me wonder if you really are an EJ 😁

Dear Holy Father, I have come to make a confession. I am no EJ, but rather ex-EJ.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Update:
I've ordered a Hadraw 5 blade with a set of Tibhar MX-P's on max for both sides. As BTY has some delay in delivery, I still have some time to change the configuration (e.g. order the blade only and get the rubbers later).
I have played the MX-P's and they are fine rubbers. With the Hadraw 5 however, I'm afraid it is going to be too fast for my capabilities and too fast for the type of TT that is being played at my level. You know all the pushers who won't loop a backspin ball, just push back. Then when I'm trying to loop, it goes off the table.

During yesterday's practice, a friend gave me a XIOM Vega Europe for a set to try it out as it is softer than my Rakza 7. Now I'm thinking about getting something way softer than MX-P's. If a combination of softer, spinier rubber with a stiffer and quicker blade could deliver a combo that got a lot of spin, decent control and above average speed.
In my mind, it does not make sense to get a setup with medium hard to hard rubbers if the majority of my opponents are pushers, anti players and players relying on spin rather than fast drives and rallies.

How would the T05fx/DNA Platinum S be compared with MX-P's? Is the XIOM Vega Europe considered a slow rubber? Looking for some rubber recommendations for the Hadraw 5 blade, softer ones with still some decent speed.

With so many different options it's hard to choose.

If you ordered Hadraw 5 with MXP, use it for a while.

There are so many options that you could spend your whole life and never get to the end of trying different things.

If you have tried MXP and liked it, wait and see how it goes with the new setup before you start thinking about other equipment.

Equipment is not that important. Whatever you have, you will get used to and adjust to. So, use the equipment you just ordered and wait 4-6 months before you start thinking about what rubbers to get next.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Our minds do us a terrible disservice when we are waiting for something we just ordered and are already looking for what we should have ordered instead before even receiving and trying the thing we just ordered.

Use what you ordered. Don't try anything else for at least a month. See how it goes. Ideally, use that for 4-6 months no matter how it goes and see how you adjust to it. But don't try anything else for 1 month so you can really adjust to the new equipment.

If, after 4-6 months of using the Hadraw/MXP combo, you feel you need something different, then you can start the EJ process again.

But I am pretty sure that, if you start looking for what you should have ordered instead of what you just ordered, within a month, you will have 10 other setups, keep changing, changing your mind on which one to use and then your level will flatline or go down because you are never grooving your game and skills to one setup.

You will adjust to any setup if you use it long enough. Just use what you ordered. It will be fine.

My memory, for me, MXP was very good in short game; quite easy to control, much less reactive to spin than you would expect for a rubber that is as spinny and as fast as it is.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Confession of an ex-EJ,

Now that I found what works for me, even though I look and see so many wonderful products, I dare not try anymore coz I know it will mess up my game and it is a bore. Cure of EJ comes at a price. My circle of interest has really shrunk.

 

[Pe-ter]

Our minds do us a terrible disservice when we are waiting for something we just ordered and are already looking for what we should have ordered instead before even receiving and trying the thing we just ordered.

Use what you ordered. Don't try anything else for at least a month. See how it goes. Ideally, use that for 4-6 months no matter how it goes and see how you adjust to it. But don't try anything else for 1 month so you can really adjust to the new equipment.

If, after 4-6 months of using the Hadraw/MXP combo, you feel you need something different, then you can start the EJ process again.

But I am pretty sure that, if you start looking for what you should have ordered instead of what you just ordered, within a month, you will have 10 other setups, keep changing, changing your mind on which one to use and then your level will flatline or go down because you are never grooving your game and skills to one setup.

You will adjust to any setup if you use it long enough. Just use what you ordered. It will be fine.

My memory, for me, MXP was very good in short game; quite easy to control, much less reactive to spin than you would expect for a rubber that is as spinny and as fast as it is.

Hi @UpSideDownCarl,
I know you're right. Not only in terms of our minds being di*cks, but also on constantly changing the setups or not sticking to just one.
Because in the meantime I was afraid that the MX-P is going to be bit too fast and not really suitable for that kind of low level league play. So I rang the dealer and...and I'm going to stick for the next 6 to 12 months with a combo of Hadraw 5 + FH: Fastarc G-1, BH: Fastarc C-1. 😔 This time for real, no EJ-ing post the delivery and I'll figure things out after the 6-12 months period, after I see how I'm capable of adapting to it.
Reason why I went with that combo: Less bouncy, higher arc, better spin.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Hi @UpSideDownCarl,
I know you're right. Not only in terms of our minds being di*cks, but also on constantly changing the setups or not sticking to just one.
Because in the meantime I was afraid that the MX-P is going to be bit too fast and not really suitable for that kind of low level league play. So I rang the dealer and...and I'm going to stick for the next 6 to 12 months with a combo of Hadraw 5 + FH: Fastarc G-1, BH: Fastarc C-1. 😔 This time for real, no EJ-ing post the delivery and I'll figure things out after the 6-12 months period, after I see how I'm capable of adapting to it.
Reason why I went with that combo: Less bouncy, higher arc, better spin.

Sounds fair. Probably MXP would have been fine. Certainly what is coming will be fine as well. But it is worth knowing, the information about speed of setup was much more for the smaller celluloid ball eras than it is with the 40+ Poly Ball era.

Most of the information that bounces around the internet about the speed of the setup is based on when the balls were smaller, faster and the material in the ball allowed you to put more spin on the ball.

In the 38mm celluloid ball era, all of the top 10 players in the world used all wood blades.

In the 40mm celluloid ball era, 8 of the top 10 used all wood blades, and only 2 used composite blades.

In the 40+ Poly Ball era, all of the top players use composite blades.

The game has changed. The information has changed. The larger ball makes it harder to generate more spin. The material of the ball makes it harder to grab and spin. Using faster equipment is less of an issue for someone learning to play.

Your initial response to new rubbers was one that you needed to get used to. The new equipment is different than the old equipment and if you had dead, recreational rubbers and jumped from them to any rubbers that are new and modern, the same thing would happen until you adjusted your racket angle on contact and how you were contacting the ball. Something that seems to have happened relatively fast based on your video with the robot.

Enjoy the new setup and remember, practice is the important issue. Not the equipment.

 

[Pe-ter]

Hi guys,
Only a quick update, we had that tournament at work where I went with a slightly faster blade with the MX-P's for the last two matches, which I both lost. First loss was against a better player, second was a loss where I was 1:0 in sets up and ended up losing 1:3 as I was not patient enough to wait and went for the fancy loops that ended in the net.
However, since then I haven't touched the one bat and decided to go only with the YSE + R7 that I have, to adapt to it and get some consistency. Also because the Hadraw 5 is still somewhere in Germany and haven't arrived yet. In the meantime I feel that the YSE and R7 is really a good setup and I'm starting to actually liking it. Yes, it still lacks speed at some crucial moments but after all, it's a do it all that is above average in all aspects, it just does not shine in any of them.
Sticking to one setup really is a good idea..

 

[Pe-ter]

Guys....I got an early Christmas gift last year and my long awaited Hadraw 5 with Nittaku rubbers finally arrived. Been playing a bit with it and I had to change my FH swing a bit to adapt to the rubber (G-1) but it felt definitely better / faster than my previous setup. However the swing felt weird to me as I was practicing yesterday with the robot. So I did try to fiddle a bit and found out that with the C-1 on the FH I do not have to change my swing at all and god is it fast (and yet controllable, balls are flying and still end up ON the table). The G-1 on the BH feels also very good. It spins, it fast and I love it. No more messing around for me for the next months for sure.

 

[Lazer]

Guys....I got an early Christmas gift last year and my long awaited Hadraw 5 with Nittaku rubbers finally arrived. Been playing a bit with it and I had to change my FH swing a bit to adapt to the rubber (G-1) but it felt definitely better / faster than my previous setup. However the swing felt weird to me as I was practicing yesterday with the robot. So I did try to fiddle a bit and found out that with the C-1 on the FH I do not have to change my swing at all and god is it fast (and yet controllable, balls are flying and still end up ON the table). The G-1 on the BH feels also very good. It spins, it fast and I love it. No more messing around for me for the next months for sure.

Make sure to do a proper review later…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Pe-ter]

So. Long time no update, so brace yourself.
It's been 11 months since I bought my very first (and not last) blade (YSE+R7). My journey in table tennis has begun.
With lot's of downs and no ups, many questions here and there, googling, revspin, help of you guys in this forum, etc. I fell in love (visually) with the Hadraw 5 blade (because it looks awesome) and the YSE + R7 was (put any excuse) for me. It was slow, it was fast, bouncy, unpredictable, you name it. Everything was wrong with the setup, because I wanted the Hadraw 5 no matter what.
So I bought that damn blade and put Fastarc G-1 and C-1 on it. It became faster. It is a great blade (for anyone except me) and half hearted shots somehow just floated into the oblivion and went too far of the table. After like 3 months of use and slightly progress, it was time to tame it a bit, so I changed the rubbers (they were also quite worn) and put R7 soft on it. So that the half hearted shots don't float into oblivion of course. For some reason (beyond my abilities to understand) it felt hard on contact. My game did improve a bit but nothing significant. I still lost all my games and I did not felt comfortable with that. (I blame the Koto outer layer here, don't ask me why)
Found some blades and rubbers on Ali and my EJ kicked in.
Sanwei T5000 + Mercury 2, Yinhe V14 pro + Mercury 2 (that's a great setup tbh), used Hungarian Primorac with Volant Phoenix 2, then the used G1/C1 and afterwards the holy grail Dignics 05/C1 (that was also a solid setup). Could not resist and wanted to give Battle 2 a try. Went nuts, ordered Battle 2 prov blue sponge and 3 sheets of Battle 2 soft (thank God for that). Unfortunately also with some other blades (N10s and Stuor Vis).
Since I'm mental, but not full mental, I put the B2S on the Stuor Vis and B2/B2Soft on Yinhe. That is a dead blade. It can be fast but the feedback you get is non existent. Literally none, zero, nada...nothing. Not even the slight ball impact. But I loved the B2/B2s combination. Felt alright, had speed when I wanted to, comfortable in the short game. And the spin, my god..I beat myself with spiny serves so often (opponent just hoped the ball back and my own spin caught me looking like a deer looking in the headlights). Conclusion: it's not my fault, it's the blade! (obviously!) So a new one has to come. (obviously!). Same scenario again, as many of you are already familiar with. Google, ChatGPT, Revspin, TTD forum, webshops. And I think I've found my holy grail again. The almighty Xiom Offensive S.
Came home from the shop, instantly glued the B2/B2 soft on it and left for a tournament.
What happened? As usual, got beaten by almost everyone (managed to get one win, hooray!). Sure, new blade, fast rubber on FH, all my smashes and top spins went (yet again) into oblivion. But it felt different this time. On the BH I had all the control I was always dreaming of. Amazing feel, the power's there if I need to, lifting backspin was never easier for me (and I always struggled with that part). So I unglued the black B2 Soft from the Stuor Vis and glued it on the XIOM just the next morning. And all of a sudden, I can honestly say "I'm going to stick with it!". Yeah, few days later I was browsing something in between Battle 2 Prov Blue Sponge and Battle 2 Soft, maybe DHS has something sitting in between (as I'm lost among all these Chinese rubbers. So many battles and hurricanes, just why??!!) them.
Or Battle 3, DHS Neo maybe or Hurricane 3 National (Orange Sponge)...or maybe, just maybe if I boost it...🤔. Oh boy, here we go again..

TL;DR: OP went nuts and bought blades and rubbers willy-nilly. Found the XIOM Offensive S with Battle 2 Soft on both sides to be awesome! Shout-out to Battle 2 Soft.

Literally I think that rubber is not appreciated enough. It lays in the shadows of his older brother (prov. blue sponge). Boy I'm glad I've found something that I like that much. Playing makes so much fun again. Shame that every Ali dealer is asking for a shipping fee 🙈
Nevertheless, if anyone knows some solid tacky rubber that sits speed wise between them, has lots of control and spins like crazy, let me know.

 

[yamagata]

Nice to hear about your journey and experience. I recognize myself in it somewhat. Some blade rubber combos just feel dead! And other combos, very few, if you manage to find them, just feels so good that it’s pure joy. Tacky soft rubbers are great until racket speed makes them uncontrollable.

 

[Pe-ter]

Nice to hear about your journey and experience. I recognize myself in it somewhat. Some blade rubber combos just feel dead! And other combos, very few, if you manage to find them, just feels so good that it’s pure joy. Tacky soft rubbers are great until racket speed makes them uncontrollable.

Agree. Some setups feel awesome, others not as much. For some reason beyond my understanding I fell in love with chinese tacky rubbers. The linear behaviour and lack of tensor effect makes them easier to use (at least for me). But as you stated, they're easy to use till the blade is not a speed machine. Even the 5€/sheet mercury 2 are superb for their price.

Will see (and test) some other 729 rubbers when ordering spares. Do unboosted DHS rubbers make sense? If boosting chinese rubbers, which booster is good?

 

[Pe-ter]

To whomever is reading this anyway...

You won't believe what you're going to witness here. After a whole year, I can honestly say. "You were right".
My advice to any new player who wants to get better and is serious about that is "Listen to the guys, they know sh....oh, uhm, stuff. They know stuff"!
There is a long list of different bats and rubbers that I had experienced with during my first 12 months of play. Some were good, other were better, some way plain garbage. HOWEVER! I've found my holy grail.
All hail to the all wood Loki Kirin K5 with Mercury 2 on it! Whole setup for less than 25 EUR and it's awesome. Is it slow? Yes! And that's why it is a joy of playing with it. Serves are spiny, loops are spiny, short game is awesome and for me as a low level amateur, that's where 90% of the game happens. Only downside, that blade comes with higher weight. Starting at 85g+ (have one in 87g and second in 92!). With light rubbers this is THE starting blade I'd hand out to kids and old folks like me. Now when Zyre03 came out for 120/sheet, so for 240 (plus 100 for a solid blade) and for that costs I can have enough stuff for at least 3 seasons and I can change the rubbers every other week!. That's every EJ's dream!
Long story short: Settled with low cost blade from Ali, rubbers from Ali and I'm happy as never before. Equipment does not have to be expensive to work just fine.