Footwork..

[blahness]

On centre of gravity, you pretty much lower it by bending at the hips. You do that beautifully for your serve movement, just need to get into that position when you prepare to do FH loop. Currently you have no forward lean at the hips when you do the FH loop. But ngl it is physically more demanding to be in that forward lean lunge position, and you have to think about whether it presents any injury risks.

 

[Wrighty67]

On centre of gravity, you pretty much lower it by bending at the hips. You do that beautifully for your serve movement, just need to get into that position when you prepare to do FH loop. Currently you have no forward lean at the hips when you do the FH loop. But ngl it is physically more demanding to be in that forward lean lunge position, and you have to think about whether it presents any injury risks.

That’s a really on point observation - thanks!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Has anybody experienced similar, and if so how did you rebuild those neural pathways to change the behaviour - are off table drills, multi ball etc good options or are there better ways to drill it?

Multiball to push you to your discomfort zone is my solution if I was your coach.

The ball will keep coming and you need to keep moving. You will be dead tired, and I will be shouting for you to reset and restart for the next container of balls (normally 300+ balls)

of course, before we start, you need to sign an indemnity form and waive me from any responsibility on what will happen to you negatively.

 

[Wrighty67]

Multiball to push you to your discomfort zone is my solution if I was your coach.

The ball will keep coming and you need to keep moving. You will be dead tired, and I will be shouting for you to reset and restart for the next container of balls (normally 300+ balls)

of course, before we start, you need to sign an indemnity form and waive me from any responsibility on what will happen to you negatively.

Yes - seems my coach reached the same conclusion as we did almost all multi ball this morning

 

[Wrighty67]

I think it looks like a lack of commitment to loop all of his long serves. It was not really a technique issue but you were getting attacked all the time and under defence which is a bad situation to be in. You were sort of trying to touch or control it back, but this will only provide him with an easy attackable ball. If you learn how to ride his sidespin to loop it with ease, you can loop it to various spots and he will be the one who has to run. Against lefty BH pendulum (same sidespin as righty FH pendulum) you need to contact the back to top or even a bit to the left (ie fade loop), never the right side of the ball when looping it.

Against lefty FH pendulum just FH hook loop it a bit, and you will have great results.

I am interested in exploring this, as have seen you mention it before - typically my approach and that advocated by mu coach has been to counter the spin, so for left hand backhand serve or rh pendulum I would be hitting the right hand top of the ball and not the left as you advoacate. If I approach the spin by going with it surely the risk is that it takes much more to control the ball missing the right hand side of the table in this case?

Can you pls help me to understand it better.

 

[blahness]

I am interested in exploring this, as have seen you mention it before - typically my approach and that advocated by mu coach has been to counter the spin, so for left hand backhand serve or rh pendulum I would be hitting the right hand top of the ball and not the left as you advoacate. If I approach the spin by going with it surely the risk is that it takes much more to control the ball missing the right hand side of the table in this case?

Can you pls help me to understand it better.

I used to try doing it your way, but against higher spin quality and variation it just doesnt work well. Going with the sidespin is the much easier way. In terms of placement you can always aim it more to the left if you wanna make it go more left.

 

[dingyibvs]

I used to try doing it your way, but against higher spin quality and variation it just doesnt work well. Going with the sidespin is the much easier way. In terms of placement you can always aim it more to the left if you wanna make it go more left.

For me I just brush the side that's easiest for me to get the racket on with my normal stroke. For example, with a long pendulum service I may not have the time to get to the right side of the ball (I'd have to hook it like in the video), so I just go with the spin and brush more from the left/back. For a half long one I'd have more trouble getting to the left/back side of the ball as it curves toward my left, then I'd brush the right side of the ball.

In other words, which side I brush depends more on the length of the ball. I'd do the same for a reverse spin service, brushing on the back/left (so going against the spin now) for a long one, and brushing on the right (so going with the spin now) for a half-long one.

Doing it this way requires the least amount of movement, thus making it quite a bit easier.

 

[blahness]

For me I just brush the side that's easiest for me to get the racket on with my normal stroke. For example, with a long pendulum service I may not have the time to get to the right side of the ball (I'd have to hook it like in the video), so I just go with the spin and brush more from the left/back. For a half long one I'd have more trouble getting to the left/back side of the ball as it curves toward my left, then I'd brush the right side of the ball.

Yeah but against real high quality sidespin, brushing the right side of the ball will lead to a lot of mistakes and loss of control. Even when pivoting it is way easier to go with the spin and brush the left or at the back. For me I usually dont like going completely on the left, but the back of the ball is a reasonable compromise. But i too finish a bit more towards the left as it really makes it easier to loop this way.

 

[dingyibvs]

Yeah but against real high quality sidespin, brushing the right side of the ball will lead to a lot of mistakes and loss of control. Even when pivoting it is way easier to go with the spin and brush the left or at the back. For me I usually dont like going completely on the left, but the back of the ball is a reasonable compromise. But i too finish a bit more towards the left as it really makes it easier to loop this way.

It's a bit easier if you use a small stroke when going against the spin. I place the racket just below the table, then I can either do a real brush move to go against the spin to the FH corner, or a very soft loop using mostly the opponent's sidespin to their BH corner. The smaller motion makes it tough for the server to guess which way I'm going, making up for the lack of power of my loop. This doesn't work for reverse spin services though, as the only way for me to loop it to their BH is with a real inside-out loop.

 

[blahness]

It's a bit easier if you use a small stroke when going against the spin. I place the racket just below the table, then I can either do a real brush move to go against the spin to the FH corner, or a very soft loop using mostly the opponent's sidespin to their BH corner. The smaller motion makes it tough for the server to guess which way I'm going, making up for the lack of power of my loop. This doesn't work for reverse spin services though, as the only way for me to loop it to their BH is with a real inside-out loop.

We will have to agree to disagree here then. I think there is a major loss of control when trying to loop going against the spin, especially against opponents with spin production as good or similar to me.

I pretty much never to inside out loops against reverse spin, way too hard to control... it is super easy just to hook loop it wherever I want to place it.

 

[blahness]

There is actually a way to really disgust the opponent. So it is super easy when going against the spin to produce heavy af sideunderspin (this is why ppl love going against the spin to push) especially if you have good spinny inverted rubber. The incoming spin bites on the rubber and you have to do nothing to generate the sideunderspin. Then just followthrough like a loop and watch them dump the ball in the net repeatedly. But that is kinda playing a bit of evil TT lol.

 

[Wrighty67]

I used to try doing it your way, but against higher spin quality and variation it just doesnt work well. Going with the sidespin is the much easier way. In terms of placement you can always aim it more to the left if you wanna make it go more left.

Thx - I’ll try that for sure.

 

[jk1980]

that video is really telling. Thank you Wrighty.

The first thing that was very obvious is your recovery after the serve.

You basically serve and slowly drag your right foot to the side a little to get into "ready" position, while your left foot stays nearly on the same spot. This is way too close to the table actually. Having the feet planted that way also stops you from moving instinctively.

The fix is very easy and should be part of your serve actually. After you hit the ball on the serve jump back approximately 50 cms from the table. The jump back has to be with both feet and you should then land on the front of your foot and not planted down like in your video.

If your opponent puts the ball short you can jump in with your right foot under the table, push the ball (long preferable) and again use BOTH feet to leap away from the table putting you at a distance where your prolonged hand would enable you to touch the table with the tip of your bad.

A good thumb of rule is having your knees actually right above your toes so that your knees are bend properly and you are leaning forward. Of course this will be an issue if you are too close to the table because with this stance you would instinctively leap forward and into the ball (which you can't when you are too close to the table)

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Lots of good input. But the anticipation thing should not be underestimated. Over and over again, in that video, you are responding late to what is coming at you. You can't use good footwork if you start out late to the ball. If you start moving to the ball after it is on its way to the net or over the net, there is no way you can use good footwork when you are nowhere near the ball. A lot of the issue is about brain-processing. Even with the shots that are directly at you or near enough to you so footwork is not an issue, you are responding to the ball only after it is nearing the net or over the net.

Watch your opponent's serve at 1:12. You see where the ball is going pretty much as he is serving and then you stand and wait, and then you move when the ball is on your side, and you footwork for that ball is what it should be but you get there late, and of course, your racket gets there late. It may not be all of why you miss the ball. But your racket was not there in time so, even if you had read the spin well and were adjusting to what was on the ball, your racket was there so late that it is hard to imagine that you would have made a quality return if you had read the spin well. In other words, even if you returned that serve, you should be looking at how slow you were to get in position to receive it.

So, a lot of the issues seem to me to be about anticipation, reading the play, and reaction time. And, to me, it does look like you are seeing what is happening and then there is a gap between seeing and you responding.

But Tony's recommendation and the type of multiball drills you do should get your brain processing working faster and get you seeing the play faster. So, it would fix the technical details and it would help improve the brain-processing issues that are causing you to be responding late to what you are seeing from your opponent.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Here is a short video with Zhang Jike doing the type of random multiball drill that would increase brain-processing speed and anticipation for someone of his level:

You might not want something as amped up. But notice, it is not a predictable pattern; it is random; and ZJK is being forced to anticipate, read and respond.

Footwork drills like Falkenberg have there place to help you learn fundamentals. But they are not what really happens in match play because they are a set pattern that you repeat. The actual idea is to move towards responding to random placement and reading where the ball is going. That is what ZJK is working on in that video. It is also okay to start random placement multiball drills at much slower speeds. But then the idea is to slowly speed them up so you have to respond quickly. Ultimately, they should be progressed to a pace that is a bit faster than what you would face in actual match play so that in match play, it feels like things have been slowed down.

 

[Wrighty67]

Lots of good input. But the anticipation thing should not be underestimated. Over and over again, in that video, you are responding late to what is coming at you. You can't use good footwork if you start out late to the ball. If you start moving to the ball after it is on its way to the net or over the net, there is no way you can use good footwork when you are nowhere near the ball. A lot of the issue is about brain-processing. Even with the shots that are directly at you or near enough to you so footwork is not an issue, you are responding to the ball only after it is nearing the net or over the net.

Watch your opponent's serve at 1:12. You see where the ball is going pretty much as he is serving and then you stand and wait, and then you move when the ball is on your side, and you footwork for that ball is what it should be but you get there late, and of course, your racket gets there late. It may not be all of why you miss the ball. But your racket was not there in time so, even if you had read the spin well and were adjusting to what was on the ball, your racket was there so late that it is hard to imagine that you would have made a quality return if you had read the spin well. In other words, even if you returned that serve, you should be looking at how slow you were to get in position to receive it.

So, a lot of the issues seem to me to be about anticipation, reading the play, and reaction time. And, to me, it does look like you are seeing what is happening and then there is a gap between seeing and you responding.

But Tony's recommendation and the type of multiball drills you do should get your brain processing working faster and get you seeing the play faster. So, it would fix the technical details and it would help improve the brain-processing issues that are causing you to be responding late to what you are seeing from your opponent.

Thanks Carl - what you say makes complete sense to me, and is what I am feeling when in these situations. It is always much worse in league matches than practice matches, so pressure seems to play a part in me being rooted and not real sting fast enough (I have pretty good reaction speed normally)

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Thanks Carl - what you say makes complete sense to me, and is what I am feeling when in these situations. It is always much worse in league matches than practice matches, so pressure seems to play a part in me being rooted and not real sting fast enough (I have pretty good reaction speed normally)

The more you practice responding to random placement and work it towards being faster than what you face in a match, the more those pressure matches will feel a little slower and you will start relaxing more in them.

But nerves are nerves. So, some stuff is beyond your control.

 

[pingpongpaddy]

Thanks all for some great replies - lots to consider. I definitely can benefit from better “movement” targeted warm up and also more solid shadow practice.

@NextLevel I am sure you are correct on the anticipation, but also sure that my shot quality is negatively impacted by lack of space at table to play, due to being too close.

Here’s a brief (painful) clip of one of the matches - lost 3-1 and also shows my struggles with his long side/top serves..

There are multiple times I’m rooted in place after hitting my shot.

Hi Wrighty
you have had great advice already, but 2 additional things are worth your attention I think.
In the video you provide I noticed:-

1. your shots are extremely passive That is lacking in such power or direction that would limit your opponents choice of shot or placement. You need to use more varied placement to correct this. Then to some extent your opponent's returns will be more predictable.
2. More fundamental, when you move to your FH you do so by 'stretching" which leaves you unbalanced and helpless on your right leg.
   What you should do is do a "two footed" shuffle by ensuring that you never leave the trailing foot behind, as you see yrself doing in the video. Rather the Left foot should move towards the right a bit, then the right foot should move into position. It should also happen that your weight should be loaded on the right knee in line with the incoming ball.
   The easiest way to practice this is multiballl feed so that you execute FH from
   
   FH corner
   Middle
   BH corner
   Middle
   FH Corner
   Middle
   
   .........
   and so on
   3 sets of one hundred balls would be a nice start
   You don't need to hit the ball hard just establish the habit of two footed shuffle in both directions. After a few weeks you will find yourself moving around the court surprisingly quickly, and in good balance too!
   
   Good luck!

 

[jk1980]

i just watched a table tennis match with Philipp Floritz who is the best player in his 3rd Bundesliga division.
If you watch his game it is especially remarkable how he serves and instantly leaps to have a nice wide stance to be ready for whatever is coming his way. Enjoy

Philipp is the blonde one.

 

[dingyibvs]

i just watched a table tennis match with Philipp Floritz who is the best player in his 3rd Bundesliga division.
If you watch his game it is especially remarkable how he serves and instantly leaps to have a nice wide stance to be ready for whatever is coming his way. Enjoy

Philipp is the blonde one.

Also note how for both players even when they're not moving their feet their legs are constantly adjusting. That's what I've realized with footwork practice, that we even if the feet are not moving you're constantly shifting your center of gravity left/right, up/down, forward/back to adjust to the incoming ball.

Footwork is more than just about the feet, it's about getting your entire body in a position that you're most comfortable with for the incoming shot. The more advanced the shot, the more important this becomes.