General dislike of LP's?

[TareqPhoto]

I think you just gave yourself a possible answer. You need to work on your patience and consistency, to be able to play your alpha game more.

In the end of the day, we are not professionals (not all of us at least! ), so it comes down to personal preference and what makes you have more fun! If you think that switching to LP (or SP or anti) will make you enjoy the game more, then give it a shot!

No, switching to LP or SP or anti will not make me enjoy the game more, it just may help me to return the spinney serves and many spinney returns better, as i can see many think they win by spin only or depending on spin 95%, so if i kill this from them then i may match they playing style, but i still love my fast racket and offensive style with inverted rubbers more.

 

[mcaibyz2]

Here is the problem with LP and anti spin that nobody mentioned: if you are a beginner trying to practise basic stokes, playing against LP and anti spin players will mess up your training, shatter your confidence and make u lose interest in the game. That is why LP and anti spin are forbidden in youth players in China. LP and anti spin players also change the game into a pushing game and doesn't give good physical exercise to both players.

not to mention so many players use illegal rubbers they bought 15 years ago.

so yes I avoid these players whenever I can. They are just annoying.

 

[NextLevel]

Here is the problem with LP and anti spin that nobody mentioned: if you are a beginner trying to practise basic stokes, playing against LP and anti spin players will mess up your training, shatter your confidence and make u lose interest in the game. That is why LP and anti spin are forbidden in youth players in China. LP and anti spin players also change the game into a pushing game and doesn't give good physical exercise to both players.

not to mention so many players use illegal rubbers they bought 15 years ago.

so yes I avoid these players whenever I can. They are just annoying.

This is pretty false and is just you making an excuse that you do not realize is self-perpetuating. The truth is that learning anything as complicated as table tennis takes time. You have to learn to play against one thing before moving to another. If you start out learning against inverted and you focus on modern topspin game, you will need to spend time learning to play against short pips, and then long pips or even antispin. If you start out playing against pips, you will later need to work on your game against inverted etc.

Because most people use inverted, you may want to focus your instincts on those. But in the end, whatever you play against, you will only get good by learning to play against it. You don' get better by avoiding a surface, you get better by practicing against it and using what you learn to enrich your understanding of the complete game.

Because you avoid these players, you will never get good at playing them. So the vicious cycle continues. When I was trying to get better, I needed to play more heavy topspin players because that was my biggest problem because of how fast they play - the pips players slow the ball down so I have time to hit my shots. With pips, I don't feel rushed and my concern is usually when the player knows how to hit the ball hard. If a player is going to just block to me with pips, he cannot beat me because eventually, I will hit the ball past him as I will topspin to him, get a high ball and put it away.

What pips players taught me was to learn how to generate heavy topspin. Because they don't give you spin, you need to learn how to spin the ball yourself. They taught me how to loop once and end the point, which also helped me with third ball. Right now, they are also forcing me to learn how to read spin better.

 

[Der_Echte]

McCai trying to exceed Trouble Maker Carl in the trouble making department trying to sic the Ittf Goon Squads on older players who purchased a perfectly legal inverted or pips rubber but is now "illegal" only because the company did not pay its yearly shakedown bribe money.

Tssk Tssk. The old crowd cannot dodge or entrap the goons like Abe and Carl can...

 

[Der_Echte]

McCai could travrl to Philly and learn sum annoying. They are nice folk down there but they dont take shyt from anyone and do not back down worth a lick. AND they stick together better than Gorilla Glue.

 

[Der_Echte]

I thought Carl and NL would have already shaken off the Goon Squad by now... maybe they are both leading a blind sheep trip to the bridge and are busy arranging for someone to take a video of the whole event.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

The goon squad has actually gone off chasing some joker who has been making false reports about illegal pips. Now they have him nailed for unauthorized Pro model blades and rubbers.


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[Wheelie]

I heard the goon squad have slapped the poor joker with another charge "illegal posession of blue sponged H3 National with only 3 corners cut off"

 

[Der_Echte]

Yep, 3 corners cut off is pretty darned careless and will get you identified for search and seizure every time.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

You guys are so funny lol

Btw, i tried the new Yinhe Qing (OX) rubber.
The same students will can get back the 755, or KTL Stranger (All OX)
Are struggling to get back Qing

Love it every time they net the ball

 

[Der_Echte]

Tony is secretly evil, perhaps Carl and I cannot truly keep up with him.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

One thing I know about when they banned the so called "frictionless" long pips. The top pros who were asked about it, including Waldner, thought there was no reason to ban them and that those long pips were fine.

The answer to not being good at playing against long pips is to practice against them and to learn how to play against them better. And then you get a sense of accomplishment if you beat a good pips player who used to beat you. And you start realizing you learned something that helped you play better.

For me, improving against long pips automatically helps me improve against smooth surface players. So that work is worth it.


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[NextLevel]

My coach actually incorporates short pips and then long pips into his loop lessons fairly early (1100-1400 rating) either when you face long pips or you are trying to get a higher level loop. His rationale is that short pips don't feed your loop topspin to work with so you are forced to generate the spin by adapting your racket angle, fineness of contact and racket head speed. With long pips, it is about learning to loop your own topspin as backspin, or sometimes a pushblocker/chopper training drill. The early exposure helps you understand the different surfaces and also helps you see what your loop is really doing, vs. what you think it is doing.

Too many people who learn to loop vs. topspin or think they are looping vs. backspin don't really understand the brushing required to generate spin. When faced with a dead ball, they use their topspin stroke to go over the ball and keep on wondering why the ball goes into the net. If you learn to contact the ball only one way, you will never develop a truly advanced loop. You can get highly rated, but you will be ducking pips players for fear of losing rating points.

In the end, learning to read spin and adapt your stroke to it is fundamental to playing at a truly high level, and has massive rewards in all aspects of the game. If you want to develop a really good topspin loop, either on forehand or backhand, I encourage you to get a long pips /inverted twiddler as a training partner. Do 3 minute alternating sessions where he blocks to you with the pips and 3 minutes where he blocks to you with the inverted. If he can twiddle in the same 3 minute rally, that would be perfect, as that would help his level as well.

Your looping level will go up in a week. When I did this work at the 1800 level on my backhand with a friend of mine who was going through a long pips phase, people just started blocking my backhand loop off the table vs backspin. It was like a week of work and a night and day thing. People looked at me and just wondered how the spin on my loop could change so massively in such a short time. Unfortunately, I don't have any such partners on a regular basis. If I did, my loop would be even more monstrous.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

My coach actually incorporates short pips and then long pips into his loop lessons fairly early (1100-1400 rating) either when you face long pips or you are trying to get a higher level loop.

Yep. Robert Chen wasn't my coach even though he consistently told me stuff to help me improve. And back when I was about 1100-1200, he got me to practice against a guy who was a long pips twiddler who was about 2000 but no longer played matches because he was older and had a heart condition. That definitely helped me get better much faster.

And the pips player would always say to me that his best recommendation for me was just to loop everything I could and try to continue develop the level of spin I was generating.




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[Tony's Table Tennis]

The other day, I played against a 12 year old kid with long pimples on the backhand.
In his age group, he would nominate a lot of players, as they struggle with the pimples, and then he would follow by a wicked fh topspin killer

I saw the kids in 2 ways - great and also a bit too single dimensional (with some arrogant).

So I decided to play some friendlies with the kid - no match, just who ever had the ball would serve.
First 2 points, I took it too lightly and he took points straight from my serve receive and he keeps saying "too good".

Then I thought I should really teach this kid a lesson about being too arrogant, I stepped up my game. When ever he serves, I would win points directly with serve return. I think that was 8 in a row (all BH or FH flick or direct FH or BH top spin if the ball is just a bit long), until I decided to get into some rallies.

When he:
BH chop block - I would drop the ball REALLY short, and 2 to 3 bounces before he even get close to the ball, so I keep winning the ball
BH chop - I would hold back my stroke and wait for the right timing and either slow top spin or fast drive - both to his BH side. Where he would fail the next shot
Then he stop using so much BH, and focus on his FH - I still keep attacking the ball to his BH side.

Apart from the first 2 point I lost, I think the fun ended with me have 20-30 odd points and him around 5 .

He struggled with me because I didn't struggle with him
Other kids struggle with him, because they don't understand what a pimple can do the spin of the ball, and most importantly to the pace of the ball

There is no secret - it is all about practicing it

I hope this kid can learn one day that, being a pimple player, it is all about patience and to keep "getting the ball back". The longer he can do this, the better chance of him winning the point.
Sadly, in his own age group, the point is normally gone within 3 to 5 touches. I just did the same with him, but obviously it all came my way

IMO, we need more pimple players. Especially from a young age. It adds many dimensions to the game of table tennis.

 

[Sali]

Very true Tony. I would just add that understanding pips is connected with age. Usually older players (experienced ones) do not struggle so much with LP opponent. Young players are couched to play inverted vs inverted - that is why they are so good in rallies and blocks. But if you start diversify you game with different techniques and try to keep the ball really low and close to the net, then they start having troubles.

 

[Der_Echte]

A 8 yr old sponge LP chopper in training who started coming to our club just before I left Korea...

 

[Wheelie]

Tony why are they struggling? What is it that Qing offers that 755 and others do not?

Are they struggling to loop coninuously against it? More spin "reversal" with Qing?

 

[Der_Echte]

I played vs a SP FH and OX LP BH player tonite right after league ended and won 3-1. We have a similar club league rating around 1900. I was down 0-7 in game 3 but somehow got a point then another and snowballed it to 11-8 and a very decisive game 4 win. I NEVER came back from a 0-7 deficit... and I was plenty my road rage self all the way to and including 0-7.

He didn't attack a lot, sometimes his LP twiddle to FH and hit with LP is wierd to time, but all in all, I finally got the slower balls off my serve I wanted to spin heavy or powerloop away and could flip the short or loopdrive long serves.

LP and whatever pips, including hardbat are fun to play against. Somehow, I play much better than players using these pips at my level and even a level or so higher. You really got to play vs every possible style and master of hand pressure players that you can or you will be very weak in tourneys vs the wrong opponent and he will wipe the floor with your tail if you are not ready.

 

[NextLevel]

I played vs a SP FH and OX LP BH player tonite right after league ended and won 3-1. We have a similar club league rating around 1900. I was down 0-7 in game 3 but somehow got a point then another and snowballed it to 11-8 and a very decisive game 4 win. I NEVER came back from a 0-7 deficit... and I was plenty my road rage self all the way to and including 0-7.

He didn't attack a lot, sometimes his LP twiddle to FH and hit with LP is wierd to time, but all in all, I finally got the slower balls off my serve I wanted to spin heavy or powerloop away and could flip the short or loopdrive long serves.

LP and whatever pips, including hardbat are fun to play against. Somehow, I play much better than players using these pips at my level and even a level or so higher. You really got to play vs every possible style and master of hand pressure players that you can or you will be very weak in tourneys vs the wrong opponent and he will wipe the floor with your tail if you are not ready.

Did you see the revenge matches I posted on my ooak blog thread? I couldn't play Song as he didn't enter the league, but he had a replacement who used SP FH, LP BH and I beat Liu in straights for the first time.