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GLUE SHEETS...The Good, the Bad (and the Ugly?)
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says
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XVT Glue Sheet, adhesive removable formula. Developed purposely for OX rubbers.
REMOVING GLUE SHEETS
Tip 1 (advanced method as adopted by Chinese locals).
-- You can brush 1 thin layer of non-orangic glue on blades and rubber sponges before using the adhesive glue paper, so when you want to peel off the rubber sheet, the paper glue sheet residue will not damage the blades and rubbers.
______________
Be happy all
XVT Glue Sheet, adhesive removable formula. Developed purposely for OX rubbers.
REMOVING GLUE SHEETS
Tip 1 (advanced method as adopted by Chinese locals).
-- You can brush 1 thin layer of non-orangic glue on blades and rubber sponges before using the adhesive glue paper, so when you want to peel off the rubber sheet, the paper glue sheet residue will not damage the blades and rubbers.
______________
Be happy all
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Well yes, but if I have to break out the glue anyway, might as well put another layer on the blade and the rubber and just glue normally. The idea is to not mess with liquid glue at all. Or that’s my motivation at least…
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Okay, sorry, but I have to ask: Why are you not going the usual glue sheet way?@Arkady I have used it (see again the previous photos!) and am going to exclusively use it from this point on. Like you, i have tested all TT brand glue sheets (Donic Nittaku Victas Gewo Tibhar etc AliX etc) and manufacturers' catalog samples (X-Film Germany, Neschen Germany, Aslan Germany); they are easy to work with but do NOT stick well to sponges. For some players, it may be "well", for me, it's not "well enough"! They all stick well to bare rubber and blade, but not to sponges. That's because sponges are porous, so there's little surface where the gluesheet can actually stick to. Liquid glues penetrate into the pores, and that makes all the difference.
Funnily, simple cheap carpet-tape has the best adhesion to sponges (similar to a proper monstermount install!) but there must have been several(!) reasons which i caht remember why i hard discarded it as viable option for our purpose. One reason could have been: carpet-tape is "thick", and with its thickness comes its effect on performance etc. For sheer adhesion to sponges though, carpet-tape remains your no.1 reference. No TT brand glue sheet comes even close to the adhesive power of carpet tape.
No need to worry, "monster strong" is just a marketing term. The glue is gooey hence harmless. Ofc it adheres better to the blade (than to the sponge) but trust me it's easy and straight-forward to remove from it, e.g. by using a Scotch tape to pluck off the residues. There is no way of harming the blade because the glue is so gooey!
A gluesheet is a solid semi-transparent plastic sheet (backing foil), on either side of which the manufacturer has deposited a thin invisible layer (coating) of an adhesive, i.e. some glue. The two glue films doht flow anywhere, so they're not liquids. You have understood correctly, the monstermount does not have a backing foil; the product is just a thin layer of solid glue. For convenient handling and installation purposes, it is sold in sandwiched form, between 2 backing peel-off papers:
gpt likes it too:
So what about my white label paper in the photos?
It might be an unnecessary step but it's clever anyway: before i cut the installed rubber to size, i cover the sticky sponge excess with paper (or label paper), so that the cutting process stays clean and non-messy. Otherwise the glue film could wrap around my knife blade, or the tearing of the film could become unclean.
Other than that, the installation procedure is straight-forward:
NOTE: Once the installed sponge has been lift off its glue film side (a glue film has 2 sides: one interfacing with the sponge, and the other interfacing with the blade), that glue film side woht stick (anywhere near well enough) anymore to the naked sponge! It takes some force to separate sponge from glue after their initial bonding, which is why we want to keep this nice bonding intact/protected. The use of 10mm edge tape helps with that.
- have a rectangular monstermount "sheet" ready. obviously, its (WxL) dimension doesn't need to fit exactly the quadratic size of your new ootb rubber (sponge-side!). peel off liner1, then you're ready to install the "sticky sheet" onto the sponge! (sponge first, not blade first!! — doht ask me why just do it)
the LDPE liner seems to come off first, which is fine.- it is easy enough to install the sticky sheet onto the sponge, without trapping air bubbles. once it is installed, i compress the rubber-sheet-assembly under a stack of books. didn't the datasheet say something about 'full adhesive power after 1 week'? oh well
- thx to the thickness of the CCK liner, the rubber becomes flat like a flat sheet (not dished/arched). when you think it's about time to proceed, peel off the liner2. now you have a "sticky sponge" in front of you, congrats! You also realize how thin (and even/regular) the glue film is, absolutely amazing.
but wait, be very careful when peeling off the liner2 (because you doht want to tear/ruin the glue film). also, peel off only a small area of maybe 1cm length (10mm x 170mm) at first, from the bottom edge.- as with latex-based glues, you have 1 attempt only: carefully align the rubber with respect to your blade, before you lower the bottom edge ("touch-down!"), making initial contact with the blade. try your best to not leave a gap between the 2 edges (handle vs. rubber line). hold still, get your roller.
- you really need a roller (a cylindrical object). now slowly roll the rubber onto the blade, with very little pressure. uncover more and more of the sticky sponge by slowly peeling off liner2, while you're rolling slowly, at the same time. the challenge is to not trap any air bubble! once done, you'll be amazed about the perfectly flat result. now it's time to cut the rubber to size.
- before i cut the installed rubber to size, i cover the sticky sponge excess with paper (or label paper), so that the cutting process stays clean and non-messy. Otherwise the glue film could wrap around my knife blade, or the tearing of the film could become unclean.
- for cutting, i use a 9mm-segmented box cutter (e.g. my STANLEY® Cutter Interlock 9mm).
- now it's time to install the 2nd rubber and cut to size (go back to step 3.)
- as a final step, i absolutely recommend applying 10mm edge tape to protect the sponge edges from coming off of the blade edges (thru pong accidents during a rally).
(...)
As a non-EJ, I am not a fan of recycling (=reusing) used rubbers or testing multiple blades and rubbers, but obviously EJ's would profit from this glueing method too, since it's the cleanest, neatest, hassle-free, time-insensitive method, always giving perfect results and resetting blades andrubberssponges to Like New condition with ease.
Also the most light-weight method.
Typically, the monstermount product is sold by the meter (or in a 25m bulk roll lol) at 123cm width at reasonable pricing. Ofc i know where to buy, in Germany.
1. put the glue sheet on the blade
2. cut the glue sheet to size
3. remove protector of the other side
4. roll on rubber
5. cut rubber to blade size
I have done it this way with ox rubbers a couple of times and it always seemed to me like the most convenient way to do it.
says
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So I continued the conversation a bit and it basically comes down to this:
If you apply pressure after gluing anyway, e.g. a stack of books for some hours, it largely doesn’t matter if you apply the gluesheet first to the sponge or the blade.
says
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I found the suggestions of chat gpt about possible gluing solutions, really interesting!
I think I will definitely try a non permanent spray glue for paper crafts and maybe a more permanent one like 3M™ Super 77™ Multipurpose Spray Adhesive.
Spray glue will definitely be much easier to use, than the hassle of spreading water glue with sponges.
says
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Pioneer will die
Many things can go wrong in using such pioneering materials. Safety first, my dear. 🥰
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You will have the hassle of taping / covering parts of the racket you don’t want sprayed, though
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Yes I know, but it's a very small sacrifice compared to all the hassles of water glue.
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Let us know how it goes... The last crafts glue I tried dried up flexible... But only in the sense that you can bend it and it stays in that shape. Not elastic at all.
It was a nightmare to remove, from a lacquered blade.
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I tried a non-permanent spray glue for stationery, with an old blade that I'm no longer using and a pair of old rubbers: I sprayed two thin layers on the rubber and one on the blade.
The upside: Spray glue is very easy to use, extremely quick drying, strong bond, rubbers very easily removed from the blade without any damage to the blade. The feeling when playing was very similar to water glue, so similar that I couldn't tell any difference. What surprised me is that when I removed the rubbers from the blade, there was absolutely no glue on the sponge! All the glue was on the blade.
The downside: The glue on the blade was impossible to clean. The only way that I could clean it was with a glue solvent that could damage the blade.
To avoid using a solvent, I tried a trick that actually worked: I resprayed 2-3 new layers of glue on the blade and while the glue was still wet, I used a glue sheet on the wet glue. I let it dry for a few hours and when I removed it, all the spray glue was attached to the glue sheet.
Conclusion: While it's a quick and easy way of gluing, I wouldn't try it on my playing blade.
But I have in mind a few other alternative ways of gluing though, that I'd like to experiment on...
says
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gpt likes it too:
So what about my white label paper in the photos?
It might be an unnecessary step but it's clever anyway: before i cut the installed rubber to size, i cover the sticky sponge excess with paper (or label paper), so that the cutting process stays clean and non-messy. Otherwise the glue film could wrap around my knife blade, or the tearing of the film could become unclean.
Other than that, the installation procedure is straight-forward:
- have a rectangular monstermount "sheet" ready. obviously, its (WxL) dimension doesn't need to fit exactly the quadratic size of your new ootb rubber (sponge-side!). peel off liner1, then you're ready to install the "sticky sheet" onto the sponge! (sponge first, not blade first!! — doht ask me why just do it)
the LDPE liner seems to come off first, which is fine.- it is easy enough to install the sticky sheet onto the sponge, without trapping air bubbles. once it is installed, i compress the rubber-sheet-assembly under a stack of books. didn't the datasheet say something about 'full adhesive power after 1 week'? oh well
- thx to the thickness of the CCK liner, the rubber becomes flat like a flat sheet (not dished/arched). when you think it's about time to proceed, peel off the liner2. now you have a "sticky sponge" in front of you, congrats! You also realize how thin (and even/regular) the glue film is, absolutely amazing.
but wait, be very careful when peeling off the liner2 (because you doht want to tear/ruin the glue film). also, peel off only a small area of maybe 1cm length (10mm x 170mm) at first, from the bottom edge.- as with latex-based glues, you have 1 attempt only: carefully align the rubber with respect to your blade, before you lower the bottom edge ("touch-down!"), making initial contact with the blade. try your best to not leave a gap between the 2 edges (handle vs. rubber line). hold still, get your roller.
- you really need a roller (a cylindrical object). now slowly roll the rubber onto the blade, with very little pressure. uncover more and more of the sticky sponge by slowly peeling off liner2, while you're rolling slowly, at the same time. the challenge is to not trap any air bubble! once done, you'll be amazed about the perfectly flat result. now it's time to cut the rubber to size.
- before i cut the installed rubber to size, i cover the sticky sponge excess with paper (or label paper), so that the cutting process stays clean and non-messy. Otherwise the glue film could wrap around my knife blade, or the tearing of the film could become unclean.
- for cutting, i use a 9mm-segmented box cutter (e.g. my STANLEY® Cutter Interlock 9mm).
- now it's time to install the 2nd rubber and cut to size (go back to step 3.)
- as a final step, i absolutely recommend applying 10mm edge tape to protect the sponge edges from coming off of the blade edges (thru pong accidents during a rally).
I've been playing with these suchly installed rubbers for an entire season and i couldn't be happier. For ppl who prefer to work slowly, neatly, precisely, economically, perfectly, reproducibly, 100% reversibly, and with the minimum weight ever possible (the total glue weight for a full racket is 2.38g), and without practice/experience/routine, this is the confirmed best glueing method, i vouch for it with my entire TTD forum existence! The reason why my method woht become the new glueing standard in worldwide table tennis: it does require you to work slowly/neatly aka cautiously/carefully, otherwise you could create a mess with the 50μm adhesive in a blink of the eye; ppl in today's world doht have patience or dexterity, especially not the retailers, vendors, dealers, shop employees: they want to work fast and rough, and just get things done. Fine, my rubber installations doht have to be as perfect as they are now with this method, but .. i never "enjoyed" the traditional glueing method with Revolution No.3, which became hell when i glued rubbers to my diy returnboard (rb1).
In contrast, with the new glueing method i installed a 5x2 rubber matrix on my shortpips returnboard (rb3) not long ago, and today installed a 2x2 rubber matrix on my longpips returnboard (rb4). All these pips rubbers came with a sponge, they are not sponge-less OX pips rubbers. The rb installation procedure is identical to the racket installation procedure (see quote). To reiterate the concrete key points for immediate success:
- If your sponged rubber is 16.5 x 17.0 cm in size, your Monstermount (MM) sheet cutout size should be at least 18.0 x 19.0 cm. You really need those millimeters of unused margin because the cutout lines can be critical/become messy.
- Make sure that all cutout lines (the edges of the MM sheet) are cleanly-cut with a supersharp blade. Otherwise, later, the adhesive will not release/release from the liner1 or and the liner2 but catch on to the liner's edge and get lifted off, leading to the start of a mess.
- The LDPE liner is liner1 because one peels it off easier/first. Doht peel off liner1 yet! First, place the 18x19cm MM sheet (with the CCK liner, =liner2, facing down) on a semi-adhesive flat cutting mat. This serves to semifix the MM sheet for easier working, and to flatten it out, since the MM product is sold in bulk rolls. It is easy to see, if there's trapped air or dirt speckle between the mat and liner2; make sure that the semifixed MM sheet looks perfectly flat/plane/even.
- Now it's time to peel off liner1. Carefully and slowly, try to peel it off. Watch out for the 4 sides of the 18x19cm rectangle, that no adhesive gets caught on to the liner1's edge during the peeling-off! The result is: the adhesive is now bare, facing you. The adhesive (hopefully fully intact and not messed up at the 4 sides) is still sitting on liner2 which in turn is sitting semifixed on the cutting mat.
- Now it's time to place the Yinhe rubber (Moxa sponge) carefully and aligned near the bottom of the 18x19cm rectangle and stick it to the adhesive. Use/tip your right index finger to get started, while holding the Yinhe sheet ~vertically up with your left hand. Now slowly advance forward. The task is to NOT trap any air/air bubble between the adhesive and the Moxa sponge! After the first 35-40mm you can continue with a roller (spray can, cylindrical object). Again, to NOT trap any air during the "Moxa-on-adhesive installation"-process is of utmost importance! Otherwise the adhesive woht release liner2 later!! If you completed the rolling successfully, you'll be able to see that there is no bubble trapped anywhere between the Moxa and the adhesive. If you wear a headlamp/headlight, you could see trappings by the light reflections of the rubber bumps. (And if there were 1 small air pocket, then it can be fixed with a fine needle)
- Result so far: you have nicely installed the Yinhe sheet on the MM sheet, with the liner2 still being on. On the mat, cover the sticky margins (of the 18x19cm rectangle) with stripes of paper, before you cut out the 16.5x17.0cm rubber with a sharp blade. Lift off the 16.5x17.0cm rectangle from the mat, ta-rah!
- Now it's time to peel off liner2. This is the most critical step. When pulling off/peeling off/removing liner2 'from the back of our rectangle', our expectation is that the adhesive stays stuck to the Moxa sponge during the entire peeling procedure. But watch out for the 4 sides (edges) of the rectangle or for your trapped air bubble! Trapped air means that the adhesive wasn't stuck to the Moxa sponge in the first place; then pulling liner2 at that spot would tear the adhesive, because the adhesive has no reason (no hold) to release liner2 but it stays semistuck to liner2. In any case, peeling off liner2 is critical/can be challenging, so do it carefully and in a controlled manner. Result is: you have a Yinhe rubber with a sticky sponge, congrats! ("stickable Yinhe")
Actually, there is no need to peel off the entirety of liner2. Just peel off 2cm (~ 2x16.5 cm) and fold that area back. To get started with the installation on a returnboard, we only need 2cm of a sticky Yinhe. - To install just 1 stickable Yinhe on a sealed wood board is simple. Start with the sticky 2cm; use/tip your right index finger to get started, while holding the stiff(!) Yinhe ~vertically up with your left hand. Now slowly advance forward by unmasking more of the stickable Yinhe. The task is to NOT trap any air/air bubble between the adhesive and the sealed wood surface! After the first 25-30mm continue with a roller (spray can, cylindrical object). The primary purpose of using a roller is to avoid trappings of air bubbles. The secondary purpose is to apply/build pressure between the adhesive and the wood surface (likewise: between the adhesive and the Moxa sponge). Unlike latex-based glues (Revolution No.3), the MM method is not a so-called contact adhesive, so it does need pressure to unfold its full glueing power.
- To install a matrix of rubbers on a returnboard, simply advance by one stickable rubber after another, following common sense. Building a rb with stickable rubbers is much more straightforward and easier than by using latex-based glues.
- When it's time to recycle the Yinhe's, it's easy enough to remove the adhesive from the wood board and from the Moxa sponge. One can use masking tape to pluck off the glue residues.
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I use both, for inverted isn't needed the glue sheet but for some OX long pips it's mandatory.
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