Has average rally length really decreased?

[zeio]

Timeline:
- Sep, 2000: Good old days, 38mm celluloid, 21-point, hidden-serve and speedglue
Oct 1, 2000: 40mm celluloid
Sep 1, 2001: 11-point
Sep 1, 2002: No hidden-serve
Sep 1, 2008: Water-based glue
July 1, 2014: 40+ cellulose acetate by DHS/DFish, 40+ ABS by Nittaku
April, 2017: 40+ ABS across the board

After all these years, most rallies still end on the 4th shot.

 

[anjoooo]

Timeline:
- Sep, 2000: Good old days, 38mm celluloid, 21-point, hidden-serve and speedglue
Oct 1, 2000: 40mm celluloid
Sep 1, 2001: 11-point
Sep 1, 2002: No hidden-serve
Sep 1, 2008: Water-based glue
July 1, 2014: 40+ cellulose acetate by DHS/DFish, 40+ ABS by Nittaku
April, 2017: 40+ ABS across the board

After all these years, most rallies still end on the 4th shot.

Thanks Zeio. Most rallies end on the fourth shot or with the fourth shot? Or, the fourth shot was successful in winning the rally or did the fourth shot fail?

 

[Loopadoop]

Timeline:
- Sep, 2000: Good old days, 38mm celluloid, 21-point, hidden-serve and speedglue
Oct 1, 2000: 40mm celluloid
Sep 1, 2001: 11-point
Sep 1, 2002: No hidden-serve
Sep 1, 2008: Water-based glue
July 1, 2014: 40+ cellulose acetate by DHS/DFish, 40+ ABS by Nittaku
April, 2017: 40+ ABS across the board

WOW, the no hidden serve rule 2002, still not enforced.

 

[Hysteresis]

Thanks Zeio. Most rallies end on the fourth shot or with the fourth shot? Or, the fourth shot was successful in winning the rally or did the fourth shot fail?

Typical methodology is that only shots that are valid/legal count. Eg if you miss on the receive that rally counts as 1 shot not 2.

What Zeio really means, is that most rallies end BY the fourth shot. Obviously, there are not over 50% of all points won either with or on the 4th shot. Just that the total of all points won on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th shot account for most points.

But by the typical methodology of those studies, a rally with 4 shots is on won ON the fourth shot (or the point was lost on 5th shot error, those are for the purpose the studies, both 4 shot rallies).

 

[haggisv]

Thanks zeio, awesome post!
Where did the graphs come from, another paper perhaps?

 

[zeio]

Thanks Zeio. Most rallies end on the fourth shot or with the fourth shot? Or, the fourth shot was successful in winning the rally or did the fourth shot fail?

The exact passage in the article:

...统计的相关概念界定。 (1) 回合:球处于比赛状态的一段时间。从运动员发球到产生得失分即是一回合; (2) 一回合的板数:一回合内双方运动员击球的总板数; (3) 第N板得分 (失分) :某一运动员在自己第N板时产生得分 (失分) 。其中, 第0板得分为对手发球失误, 无第0板失分。

...Definitions of relevant statistical concepts:
(1) Rally: The period during which the ball is in play. A rally starts from a serve and ends when a point is scored; (2) Number of strokes per rally: the total number of strokes hit by either player in one rally; (3) Nth scoring/losing stroke: points scored/lost on a player's nth stroke. Among them, the 0th scoring stroke means the opponent's service error, and there is no 0th losing stroke.

Some examples and my interpretation according to how strokes are counted under the expedite rule:

http://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/HMO_15th_edition.pdf

15 EXPEDITE SYSTEM
...
15.2.2 Thereafter, in each rally the stroke counter is required to count aloud the return strokes of the receiving player or pair, including the return of service, from “one” to “thirteen”. The call should be made immediately after the receiver has struck the ball and not delayed until the return has been judged good or the ball has gone out of play. If the 13th return is good the umpire should call “stop” and award a point to the receiver.

By "most rallies end on the 4th shot," I meant:
4 strokes, 3rd scoring stroke for Ito(scoring on the 3rd stroke), 4th losing stroke for DN

4 strokes, 3rd scoring stroke for DN, 4th losing stroke for Ito

1 stroke, 0th scoring stroke for Ito, 1st losing stroke for DN

2 strokes, 2nd scoring stroke for Ito

3 strokes, 3rd scoring stroke for Ito

3 strokes, 3rd losing stroke for Ito

3 strokes, 2nd scoring stroke for Ito, 3rd losing stroke for DN

5 strokes, 4th scoring stroke for Ito, 5th losing stroke for DN

6 strokes, 5th scoring stroke for DN, 6th losing stroke for Ito

2 strokes, 1st scoring stroke for ML, 2nd losing stroke for ZJK

2 strokes, 1st scoring stroke for ZJK, 2nd losing stroke for ML

3 strokes, 2nd scoring stroke for ZJK, 3rd losing stroke for ML

2 strokes, 2nd scoring stroke for ZJK

8 strokes, 8th scoring stroke for FZD

3 strokes, 3rd scoring stroke for ML

 

[drunix80]

What is the rationale behind ITTF always pushing for more rallies ? I always find it exciting as long as the point is scored off a non unforced error.

 

[zeio]

What is the rationale behind ITTF always pushing for more rallies ? I always find it exciting as long as the point is scored off a non unforced error.

Published under Tennis on BBC despite "Table tennis is the third most popular racquet sport in the world" and "more than 17 million Americans play table tennis[more like ping pong], more than play American football or baseball."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sport/tennis/654102.stm

It is a problem which had been troubling the sport's leading officials for some time.

How to make rallies in one of the fastest sports in the world last longer.
...
The effect has been that rallies are played at such speed they often last for less than three or four shots.

The International Table Tennis Federation even considered raising the net but decided against the idea.

Instead the ITTF has now decided to increase the diameter of the regulation ball from 38mm to 40mm.

It is the first change to table, net or ball since 1937.
...
The ITTF believe it will slow the game just enough to make it more exciting again - and restore its commercial appeal to the high-spending television companies.
...
It will also make it more visible to spectators and make the game easier to learn.

 

[zeio]

Thanks zeio, awesome post!
Where did the graphs come from, another paper perhaps?

Yup, fresh off the press from China.

Exploration about the Competitive Performance and Countermeasures of Table Tennis Based on Board Charac⁃teristics in the Context of the New Ball Era
ZHOU Xingdong ZHANG Yingqiu
School of Education, Beijing Sport University

Abstract：Objective:In order to exploration the competitive performance and countermeasures of table tennis in the context of the new ball era. Methods:This paper adopted video observation and mathematical statistics to summarize and analyze the characteristics of the boards in the men's World Cup from 2014 to2018. Results:There would be a stalemate with a large number of boards occasionally, but generally not more than 13 boards, mainly concentrated in a round of2-6 boards, and the average number of boards in each round is about 5 boards. The scoring rate and the frequency of scoring were very high in the first boards.There was a close correlation between the receiving score and the other main boards, and there was no correlation between the fifth board scoring and the sixth board losing and the other boards. In addition, there was a significant difference between the data of two or three boards in one round in 2018 and that of previous years. Conclusions:Under the new ball era, the first three boards was still an important part to establish the advantage of the game, and the core position of the game has been replaced by the receiving;The fifth board and the sixth board were the key points of the attack and defense conversion, which could reverse the situation to a certain extent;The best way to curb the mighty receiving was to increase the proportion of long balls when service.

 

[Ioiettino]

Do you guys think todays game if of benefit for the asians that train very much from the beginning? My thought is that with the old ball, and the first ball there was much more spin so you could be less of a machine? And maybe have "feeling" for the ball and spin that is not as easily to just train in? the same with the hidden serves, need somewhat of a talent to become really good at it.

I mean that nowdays it is more pang pang and less finesse i feel. Feel like this should benefit the ones that just train like robots or machines. But of course you need talent and feed for the ball nowdays too, so maybe i am just thinking and speculating completely wrong haha

This would stand if so many Chinese players didn't have as much feeling, finesse and talent of their own. Players adapt to the rules, but I don't think any of these would affect the nation vs. nation ranking orders.

 

[zeio]

Replace "knowledge" with "robotic training" when watching the following video and check out how Danish students fare against Chinese students in the innovation test.

"to my surprise, there is one type of creativity which is only shown in Danish students' drawings"

As to the good old days and the modern bang-bang style,

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...=is-style-conformity-killing-the-sport#996437

The thing is table tennis was going through a transformation. The style pioneered by the Swedes, with which Waldner and Persson brought down the Chinese Empire was by no means complete. It merely served as a proof of concept of the potential, which paved the way for up and coming players like Gatien, Saive, Korbel, Rosskopf, Primorac and Kreanga etc. to hack at the game from different angles, during their own journeys to the top.

The problem is that those players stuck around for way too long and failed to pass the torch to the next generation, leading to a generation gap in Europe. Rule changes are hardly to blame for the lower excitement. Blame Gatien and Saive for the prominent style in today's table tennis. They were the pioneers of the irrational style. Blame Korbel for inventing Chiquita, the go-to stroke that has monotonically taken over the start of a point. Stop blaming and start working like Japan.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...e-Is-Unmatched&p=245428&viewfull=1#post245428

Foreigners Technical Inventions and Innovations
...
17. French shakehand aggressive attacking style(1991) (TL's note: colloquially known as the reckless/irrational style in China)

I don't know about Saive, but Gatien had this to say ahead of London 2012.

http://dailynews.sina.com/bg/news/spt/sptothers/sinacn/20120515/19183395650.html

　　2004年退役的蓋亭哀嘆說：“在歐洲乒乓球頂級聯賽裡，打得最好的仍舊是老將。目前歐洲只有兩個國家還致力於培養乒乓球新秀，就是德國和法國。我們的球員有才華，但只有才華可不夠。中國有那麼多好教練、好球員，球員的訓練時間還超長，球員要進入國家隊，要一層層打上去，經過殘酷的競爭，但是我們歐洲的球員遠沒有那麼刻苦，他們必須轉變思維，只有更刻苦、更有創造性才能匹敵中國。”

　　中國乒乓球隊正在封閉訓練為奧運蓄勢，蓋亭說：“集訓兩個月能幫助中國隊在奧運會時調整到最佳狀態，但是歐洲乒乓球的體系和中國不同，運動員都和俱樂部有合同，每周都要為俱樂部打比賽，根本沒辦法進行系統准備，要想跟上中國隊的備戰節奏，歐洲國家的乒乓球體制需要改變。”

Gatien, who retired in 2004, lamented: "In the European table tennis top league, the best players are still the veterans. Currently only 2 countries in Europe are also committed to training table tennis rookies, Germany and France. Our players have talent, but talent alone is not enough. There are so many good coaches and good players in China and their training time is super long. Players have to fight through tiers of the brutal competition to enter the national team. OTOH, our European players are far less strenuous, they have to change their mindsets, only through more hard work and creativity can they rival China."

The Chinese table tennis team is in closed training for the Olympics. Gatien said: "The 2 months of training can help the Chinese team tune to the best state for the Olympics. However, the European table tennis system is different from China. The players have contracts with the clubs. We have to play for the club every week. There is no way to prepare systematically. In order to keep up with the pace of preparation of the Chinese team, the table tennis system in European countries needs to change."