Have you "successfully" learned Ma Long's Forehand technique?

[AutomaticBackhand]

Hi everyone,

Ma Long's Forehand technique is probably the best in the world.
And I would assume its the most famous and admired one in the entire Table Tennis Community.

The last couple months, I have been working on improving my forehand.
And Ma Long's technique has been the "goal" or rather the inspiration for me.

I focused on his footage the most.
Wang Chuqin's was second.

For example this one:

Recently I started to record and analyze myself and I realized that some areas were much more off than I thought they were.
To mention a few: Contact with the ball point too much in front of the body, side-distance to the ball too close, too much emphasis on forearm and muscles rather than swinging big, not enough hip and torso rotation, not sequencing and syncing the body parts, standing too much upright etc. .

So I got curious and my question to you is:

Have you "successfully" learned Ma Long's Forehand technique?

By "successfully", I mean that is reasonably reassembles his movement.
70% would be a success for this instance.
Would someone who has reasonable knowledge of pro level techniques,
be able to recognize your movement as "close" to Ma Long's.

I think you know what I mean.

I would like to hear about your experience with this.

PS: I am not really looking for "advice" or tips, I would argue that I know how and what to train.
Unless you have you have a "unique" or special insight, that could be a "game changer" for me or others.

PS 2.0: Record yourself or else you will fall victim to a delusional picture of yourself, trust me.

 

[pingpongpaddy]

hi automatic
while I agree that Ma Long has been one of the best players of recent times, I don't think that his fh has anything unique about it to the extent that his stroke technique is the source of his success.
IMHO the special thing that he brings to the table is his character, and his table tennis intelligence.
So if you want to get the best from his example don't slavishly try to copy his strokes.
Rather study his tactics and decision making and his determination and his high standards of behaviour.
Where he sends his fh is more significant than the tiny details of his stroke or his grip

 

[Aizen]

I haven’t get idea of this topic. It seems nonsense.

1- if you wondering, do we have perfect Ma Long FH technique?
No, I don’t have.

2- if you want to argue about whether ML has the best FH?
No, I also think similar.

 

[AutomaticBackhand]

I don't think that his fh has anything unique about it to the extent that his stroke technique is the source of his success.

I am aware of that.
What I consider more "special" about his forehand technique is that the body stays relatively "relaxed" throughout the movement.
Xu Xin's technique is similar in that regard.

Ovtcharov or Zhang Jike have more "forced" and tensioned movements, which puts more load on the muscles and is less sustainable.

I would consider myself more on the athletic side, which influences my playstyle and decisions.

IMHO the special thing that he brings to the table is his character, and his table tennis intelligence.
So if you want to get the best from his example don't slavishly try to copy his strokes.
Rather study his tactics and decision making and his determination and his high standards of behaviour.
Where he sends his fh is more significant than the tiny details of his stroke or his grip

I am also aware of that.

I have been watching and "studying" top level pro matches from the last 10-15 years quite intensely.
Especially those of the Top Chinese Players + Ovtcharov ( I am a fan ) and some others.
If I had to guess, I would say I watched more than 80% of their "big" matches.

Anything in terms of tactics, strategies, technique, footwork, positioning, placement and so on.

Sometimes I even find it more interesting to see how they handle their "easier" opponents in the first rounds of tournaments.
Especially Ma Long, as he probably puts more thoughts into his decisions and actions than anyone else on the tour.

This is also closer to how I approach most things.

Although there are many people who act like copycats, I am not one of them.

With all that in mind, I am generally looking at Ma Long's technique when I want to learn about forehand loop specifics.
My focus recently has been centered more around non-stroke related things.

For example: Contact Point relative to the incoming ball, decision making about shot details and "tactics", footwork and positioning, stance, serve set ups, receiving with forehand etc. .

Now to come back to my question:

Has anyone got to a level where they can loop in a similar way like Ma Long?

 

[NextLevel]

If I didn't know better I would say Archosauraus had cloned an AI version of himself and deployed it in this thread

 

[omelet]

OP, it would be cool to see footage of your current FH technique.

Im also interested in this topic of whose forehand to try and learn from and why/why not.

This is an interesting video to analyze:

AND

I do see the shoulder end push Ti Long talks in MLs technique about why it might not be a good idea to copy unless one is really working out balanced musculature/flexibility.

The why of copying someone is also a good topic. Esp if his is the best, why every CNT players forehand is a bit different, etc? Same with backhand.

 

[kindof99]

Quite often, it is not about how you form looks like, but how you your body to create power similarly. Most amateurs just can not play even close to these top chinese players. But you can still play while correctly using your power.

 

[rbtitco]

No, thats why im posting on here from work

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Hi everyone,

Ma Long's Forehand technique is probably the best in the world.
And I would assume its the most famous and admired one in the entire Table Tennis Community.

The last couple months, I have been working on improving my forehand.
And Ma Long's technique has been the "goal" or rather the inspiration for me.

I focused on his footage the most.
Wang Chuqin's was second.

For example this one:

Recently I started to record and analyze myself and I realized that some areas were much more off than I thought they were.
To mention a few: Contact with the ball point too much in front of the body, side-distance to the ball too close, too much emphasis on forearm and muscles rather than swinging big, not enough hip and torso rotation, not sequencing and syncing the body parts, standing too much upright etc. .

So I got curious and my question to you is:

Have you "successfully" learned Ma Long's Forehand technique?

By "successfully", I mean that is reasonably reassembles his movement.
70% would be a success for this instance.
Would someone who has reasonable knowledge of pro level techniques,
be able to recognize your movement as "close" to Ma Long's.

I think you know what I mean.

I would like to hear about your experience with this.

PS: I am not really looking for "advice" or tips, I would argue that I know how and what to train.
Unless you have you have a "unique" or special insight, that could be a "game changer" for me or others.

PS 2.0: Record yourself or else you will fall victim to a delusional picture of yourself, trust me.

Don't know what you mean but if you can post a video of your FH training, perhaps we can get an insight to what you mean?

 

[turbozed]

The why of copying someone is also a good topic. Esp if his is the best, why every CNT players forehand is a bit different, etc? Same with backhand.

The most obvious answer is that people have different bodies and therefore the optimal way to generate force on an object will differ from one person to the next.

Ma Long's FH form is optimal for him and designed for his specific body type, from his specific proportions, bone structure, muscle insertions and connective tissue.

If you had his same body, then you might want to copy him. Since you don't, you want to find a form that achieves the same level of efficiency, balance, and power as him but designed for your body. You can start with trying to make it look like ML, but eventually after thousands of hours of training your body will adjust to something different because it will be more comfortable and effective.

 

[kase]

You need to look at the whole package. ML's forehand is useless without ML's extremely high-level of speed, balance, footwork, ball-sense and fitness. If you want to develop a ML forehand, you will need to simultaneously work on those other things too, otherwise you won't really have a chance to use it in a game.

PS: Didn't Ma Long have stress fractures in his shins at some point in his 20's, from the quantity and intensity of his training, in order to achieve the attributes mentioned above? Or I may be mis-remembering.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

So much more important to feel the kind of contact you are making and how you contact the ball, what you feel on the stroke.

The external form that you see when you watch another player is the smallest surface level fraction of what is going on and getting your body to feel the right stroke for you would be way more valuable than imitating a pro who has been training since he was 4 or 5 years old and developed the technique he has based on the body he has.

Everyone's upper arm to lower arm length ratio is different. Everyone's torso is a different size and shape. Your shoulder joint is actually different than anyone else's. Same with your elbow and wrist joints. The joints in your spin that allow you to turn, your hip joints. The length of your legs relative to your torso. The length ratio between upper leg and lower leg. All of that is different on EVERY human being.

The technique that is optimal for one person is not going to be exactly the same as the technique that is going to be optimal for another person.

So the idea of copying the FH of someone who is NOT YOU, seems a bit off unless you are talking about the most simplistic beginner level stuff. After you are looping, actually getting adequate levels of spin on the ball, the rest should be about grooving your strokes and trying to optimize your strokes by practicing them thousands and thousands of times while feeling, the stroke, the mechanics for your body, the impact moment, how you contact the ball, the depth of contact, how tangential the contact is.....

 

[omelet]

So much more important to feel the kind of contact you are making and how you contact the ball, what you feel on the stroke.

The external form that you see when you watch another player is the smallest surface level fraction of what is going on and getting your body to feel the right stroke for you would be way more valuable than imitating a pro who has been training since he was 4 or 5 years old and developed the technique he has based on the body he has.

Everyone's upper arm to lower arm length ratio is different. Everyone's torso is a different size and shape. Your shoulder joint is actually different than anyone else's. Same with your elbow and wrist joints. The joints in your spin that allow you to turn, your hip joints. The length of your legs relative to your torso. The length ratio between upper leg and lower leg. All of that is different on EVERY human being.

The technique that is optimal for one person is not going to be exactly the same as the technique that is going to be optimal for another person.

So the idea of copying the FH of someone who is NOT YOU, seems a bit off unless you are talking about the most simplistic beginner level stuff. After you are looping, actually getting adequate levels of spin on the ball, the rest should be about grooving your strokes and trying to optimize your strokes by practicing them thousands and thousands of times while feeling, the stroke, the mechanics for your body, the impact moment, how you contact the ball, the depth of contact, how tangential the contact is.....

Always love your insightful replies.

I totally agree with what you pointed towards.

I was more going off what OP said but in my own learning, it has been hard to know what to take/discard from all the online videos showing how to loop.

What I learned recently from taking a video lesson from Daniel Kim (RoadToPro Youtube Channel:https://www.youtube.com/@roadtopro3038], who was very sharp and able to explain what biomechanics was wrong in my technique, said I had the same FH loop issue as this video shows around 6:10 mark (my elbow moves inward to try and create force rather than wrapping around the ball):

I can see in the super slow motion videos of mine that it looks I am using my body, but its my shoulder leading the stroke rather than my mid/lower body leading my hand.

Anyhooo...always happy to learn the nuance of learning itself.

Wheres the OP and his FH loop video, tho?

(Reference of my terrible shoulder led form:

)

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

No ma long is has been I’m copying Alexis Lebrun

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

I wanted to copy Ma Long, I failed.
I wanted to copy FZD, I failed.
I wanted to copy Aruna, I failed.
I wanted to copy Jang Woojin, I failed.
I wanted to copy Tomokazu, I failed.

In the end, the only FH I can do is Gozo(tm) style. Sighing in dejection.

 

[netdriver]

no bc i am a penholder

so instead of ma long i try to emulate RSM's forehand

it got me mostly nowhere

the way he drops his arm straight down made my stroke recovery more sluggish than ever and introduced a bad habit i am still trying to fix to this day

but what i did learn copying him was that weight transfer is the core of everything loopy

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

What is the use of Ma Long forehand, if you don't have a Ma Long footwork first

 

[NetProphet]

Hi everyone,

Ma Long's Forehand technique is probably the best in the world.
And I would assume its the most famous and admired one in the entire Table Tennis Community.

The last couple months, I have been working on improving my forehand.
And Ma Long's technique has been the "goal" or rather the inspiration for me.

I focused on his footage the most.
Wang Chuqin's was second.

For example this one:

Recently I started to record and analyze myself and I realized that some areas were much more off than I thought they were.
To mention a few: Contact with the ball point too much in front of the body, side-distance to the ball too close, too much emphasis on forearm and muscles rather than swinging big, not enough hip and torso rotation, not sequencing and syncing the body parts, standing too much upright etc. .

So I got curious and my question to you is:

Have you "successfully" learned Ma Long's Forehand technique?

By "successfully", I mean that is reasonably reassembles his movement.
70% would be a success for this instance.
Would someone who has reasonable knowledge of pro level techniques,
be able to recognize your movement as "close" to Ma Long's.

I think you know what I mean.

I would like to hear about your experience with this.

PS: I am not really looking for "advice" or tips, I would argue that I know how and what to train.
Unless you have you have a "unique" or special insight, that could be a "game changer" for me or others.

PS 2.0: Record yourself or else you will fall victim to a delusional picture of yourself, trust me.

I think the answer to this for everyone everywhere ever is going to be a solid NO.
Nobody has successfully learned Ma Longs FH technique. And this includes ever Table Tennis pro playing now and the past 15 yrs.
Trying to learn Chinese FH technique is a great idea and consistent application of your coaching in your training might get you very far but the question you ask has only one answer.
A few ppl have said this already but just focus on developing a Chinese style that works for you, with your body, your muscles, your fitness etc etc.
My question is, if you are already so aware of the points made by pingpongpaddy (that MLs FH may not have anything unique about it to the extent that his stroke technique is the source of his success and that the special thing he brings to the table is his character, and his table tennis intelligence) then why are you obsessing on MLs FH technique then?
And you also say you don't want any advice and that you already know what and how to train...
Like, we're you really expecting a bunch of amateurs in here to say YES, I have perfectly mastered learned Ma Longs technique 😂
Sorry, but from your OP and your replies this whole thread just seems entirely pointless.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

What is the use of Ma Long forehand, if you don't have a Ma Long footwork first

I'm not done yet.
What is the use of Ma Long footwork, if you don't have the mind of Ma Long first?

 

[SleepyMaster]

No, and I guess I never will. But I will try to spin the ball hard as I can with my forehand and prepare myself for the next one - that’s it for me for the years to come🫡