Horrible backhand, stiff wrist.

says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,163
17,730
54,865
Read 11 reviews
The player your giving advice to would beat you in 9 out of 10 games.
9 out of 10 is much too generous to Gozo. They are multiple levels apart. He is looping backspin with a big arc on his BH. And these guys are dealing with so much more spin than Gozo has ever faced that he did not even know why I said what I said because he cannot see the difference in the amount of spin they are using in comparison to his play.
 

Jim

This user has no status.

Jim

This user has no status.
Member
Feb 2019
31
24
75
9 out of 10 is much too generous to Gozo. They are multiple levels apart. He is looping backspin with a big arc on his BH. And these guys are dealing with so much more spin than Gozo has ever faced that he did not even know why I said what I said because he cannot see the difference in the amount of spin they are using in comparison to his play.
Im aware, i just didn`t had it in me to say 10/10 or 100/100. ;)
 
  • Haha
Reactions: UpSideDownCarl

NDH

says Spin to win!
Hi!

I have an incredible bad backhand, I get zero spin and I have zero control.
This makes me extremely vulnerable when I play matches, since my opponents finds out about my weakness very quick and only play down my backhand.
I'm trying to practice the backhand, but I feel like it's stiff (also hurts my wrist after a while)
and it's like 10% chance it'll go in (even at low speed). I tend to just use punch or defensive chop even though I should do a backhand loop, just because of insecurities.
I'm turning to you guys because you might have some useful tips for me, or see where I go wrong.

I know that I have to loosen my wrist, but when I do that, I feel that I get even less control and more floppy.
Please help me get better!

These videos probably doesn't show much, it's just some highlights when I play with my mate, but maybe you could get a sense of where I'm going wrong.
I'll upload another video next week where you'll see my training and all my backhands, where I miss and etc.
But hopefully this will be good enough for you to hand me some tips til my match on Saturday.

(I'm the guy with tattoos)


2:01 2:16 4:34


0:36 2:42 2:54 3:00 3:44 - 3:52 4:42

Thanks for your help!
Hey Cypereze,

Just a quick one - It's always worth editing the videos to only show what you want feedback on (backhand in this case) - Even if the backhand points are only 1 minute combined, it saves having to watch 12 minutes of forehands 😅

Let's start with the good news!

You are clearly good enough to be able to improve your backhand consistency dramatically, and a lot of what you need is already there (you just need to unlock it!)

If I were you, I would focus on a small number of things to improve initially, rather than trying to fix everything in one go.

In no particular order......

1 - Bat position

Probably the hardest thing to do, as it's such a big part of our game is how we hold the bat.

I noticed that when you are thinking about blocking a ball, your bat goes vertical - It is often your "default" position, but you usually end up in a good position when playing a forehand attacking shot.

However, you seem to struggle more going from this vertical position to playing a good backhand.

Example photos below so you can see what I mean.

Screenshot 2023-04-21 at 10.30.46.png

The above photo shows you on the back foot, with a decent racket position (good straight wrist), although it could be even straighter if you really wanted to (it feels uncomfortable when initially learning this).

Your next shot is a back foot attacking backhand which looks great.


Screenshot 2023-04-21 at 10.34.06.png

This is how you look most of the time when blocking, and it's not optimal to go from this, to attacking (be that FH or BH).

Try and keep your wrist straighter (like the first pic), and get your head closer to the ball whilst bending your knees/getting lower.

By getting this fundamental thing right, I think it'll improve your positioning to be able to play better backhands.

2 - Practice, practice, practice

I know this is obvious, but I was in a similar position to you not too long ago.

Decent FH that I was always confident on, but a BH that I would rarely attack with, as I just didn't have the confidence to go for it.

I spent an entire summer playing practice matches against people, and pretty much tried to hit everything on my BH.

At the start, I would lose (quickly) to people I would normally beat with my eyes closed.

The points were short, because I'd miss on ball 2/3/4, but I kept on going for it.

By the end of the summer, I had SO much more confidence, that I took it into the league that year and never looked back.

It is clear from your videos that you have the ability to hit good shots on your backhand, and the main thing from stopping you is the thought of losing the point in one shot.

Your videos are 95% forehand - I want to see one that is 95% backhand 😊

3 - Get lower

Easy one to fix - Get lower.

Either spread your legs to give you a wider base (which brings your centre of gravity lower) - But you still need to be able to move quickly on your feet.

Or bend your knees more.

Too often, you are too tall/upright on your shots, and it's having a negative effect.


I was fully expecting to see a really trash backhand given your thread title 😂 but it's actually pretty solid when you are aggressive.

The big one is having that confidence to hit it continuously, rather than a big swing in a "hit and hope" sort of way.

Confidence comes with practice (lots of it) - Don't worry about losing easily in those practice games.

If you recorded another video, where you hit 95% backhands and then uploaded it to this thread, you might find some more in depth answers that would help.

Good luck!
 
Hey Cypereze,

Just a quick one - It's always worth editing the videos to only show what you want feedback on (backhand in this case) - Even if the backhand points are only 1 minute combined, it saves having to watch 12 minutes of forehands 😅

Let's start with the good news!

You are clearly good enough to be able to improve your backhand consistency dramatically, and a lot of what you need is already there (you just need to unlock it!)

If I were you, I would focus on a small number of things to improve initially, rather than trying to fix everything in one go.

In no particular order......

1 - Bat position

Probably the hardest thing to do, as it's such a big part of our game is how we hold the bat.

I noticed that when you are thinking about blocking a ball, your bat goes vertical - It is often your "default" position, but you usually end up in a good position when playing a forehand attacking shot.

However, you seem to struggle more going from this vertical position to playing a good backhand.

Example photos below so you can see what I mean.

View attachment 25010

The above photo shows you on the back foot, with a decent racket position (good straight wrist), although it could be even straighter if you really wanted to (it feels uncomfortable when initially learning this).

Your next shot is a back foot attacking backhand which looks great.


View attachment 25011

This is how you look most of the time when blocking, and it's not optimal to go from this, to attacking (be that FH or BH).

Try and keep your wrist straighter (like the first pic), and get your head closer to the ball whilst bending your knees/getting lower.

By getting this fundamental thing right, I think it'll improve your positioning to be able to play better backhands.

2 - Practice, practice, practice

I know this is obvious, but I was in a similar position to you not too long ago.

Decent FH that I was always confident on, but a BH that I would rarely attack with, as I just didn't have the confidence to go for it.

I spent an entire summer playing practice matches against people, and pretty much tried to hit everything on my BH.

At the start, I would lose (quickly) to people I would normally beat with my eyes closed.

The points were short, because I'd miss on ball 2/3/4, but I kept on going for it.

By the end of the summer, I had SO much more confidence, that I took it into the league that year and never looked back.

It is clear from your videos that you have the ability to hit good shots on your backhand, and the main thing from stopping you is the thought of losing the point in one shot.

Your videos are 95% forehand - I want to see one that is 95% backhand 😊

3 - Get lower

Easy one to fix - Get lower.

Either spread your legs to give you a wider base (which brings your centre of gravity lower) - But you still need to be able to move quickly on your feet.

Or bend your knees more.

Too often, you are too tall/upright on your shots, and it's having a negative effect.


I was fully expecting to see a really trash backhand given your thread title 😂 but it's actually pretty solid when you are aggressive.

The big one is having that confidence to hit it continuously, rather than a big swing in a "hit and hope" sort of way.

Confidence comes with practice (lots of it) - Don't worry about losing easily in those practice games.

If you recorded another video, where you hit 95% backhands and then uploaded it to this thread, you might find some more in depth answers that would help.

Good luck!
I think You commented the wrong guy. The OP is the guy with the tatoo and the flat top,,,

Cheers
L-zr
 
My comment was to the guy in the beige top - Who I am hoping is the OP 😅
Thats correct, but your pictures shows the redhaired guy's backhands. and the beige top guys fore hands.

Cheers
L-zr
 

NDH

says Spin to win!
Thats correct, but your pictures shows the redhaired guy's backhands. and the beige top guys fore hands.

Cheers
L-zr
For ease of clarity, can we just call them beige shirt and yellow shirt? 😂 - I have no idea which one has red hair!

My pics show what they need to in the explanations I put below each pic.

Pic 1 is where the beige shirt is on the back foot, but his wrist position on his bat is good, and when you play the video through (timestamp given on the pic), his backhand shot is very nice and natural.

Pic 2 shows beige shirt holding the bat in a vertical position, as he does most of the time when blocking, which hampers his ability to get his wrist into position to play a good shot if needed.

Hope that clears it up 😊
 
The beige shirt is the OP, this is clear.
But its confusing with the pics You posted.

Pic 1. The other guy has just delivered a BH shot and The OP is about to receive. Only one leg is in the picture so its hard to tell where the weight is put.

Pic 2. The OP is about to deliver a FH shot.

IMO None of this shots says anything about the OP's BH... But it says something about the other guys BH's...

Cheers
L-zr
 

NDH

says Spin to win!
The beige shirt is the OP, this is clear.
But its confusing with the pics You posted.

Pic 1. The other guy has just delivered a BH shot and The OP is about to receive. Only one leg is in the picture so its hard to tell where the weight is put.

Pic 2. The OP is about to deliver a FH shot.

IMO None of this shots says anything about the OP's BH... But it says something about the other guys BH's...

Cheers
L-zr
I understand the confusion - Perhaps I should have emphasized my points a little more.

If you watch the video, rather than just take the static images, you'll see what I mean.

I did try and make it clear, but appreciate it could have been more obvious.

The pic of him playing the FH block was to highlight the bigger issue of how he holds the bat, which in turn, can improve his BH.

There is method in my madness (at times!) 😂
 
  • Like
Reactions: UpSideDownCarl
I understand the confusion - Perhaps I should have emphasized my points a little more.

If you watch the video, rather than just take the static images, you'll see what I mean.

I did try and make it clear, but appreciate it could have been more obvious.

The pic of him playing the FH block was to highlight the bigger issue of how he holds the bat, which in turn, can improve his BH.

There is method in my madness (at times!) 😂
Fair enough...

Cheers
L-zr
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Apr 2023
12
4
22
Hey Cypereze,

Just a quick one - It's always worth editing the videos to only show what you want feedback on (backhand in this case) - Even if the backhand points are only 1 minute combined, it saves having to watch 12 minutes of forehands 😅

Let's start with the good news!

You are clearly good enough to be able to improve your backhand consistency dramatically, and a lot of what you need is already there (you just need to unlock it!)

If I were you, I would focus on a small number of things to improve initially, rather than trying to fix everything in one go.

In no particular order......

1 - Bat position

Probably the hardest thing to do, as it's such a big part of our game is how we hold the bat.

I noticed that when you are thinking about blocking a ball, your bat goes vertical - It is often your "default" position, but you usually end up in a good position when playing a forehand attacking shot.

However, you seem to struggle more going from this vertical position to playing a good backhand.

Example photos below so you can see what I mean.

View attachment 25010

The above photo shows you on the back foot, with a decent racket position (good straight wrist), although it could be even straighter if you really wanted to (it feels uncomfortable when initially learning this).

Your next shot is a back foot attacking backhand which looks great.


View attachment 25011

This is how you look most of the time when blocking, and it's not optimal to go from this, to attacking (be that FH or BH).

Try and keep your wrist straighter (like the first pic), and get your head closer to the ball whilst bending your knees/getting lower.

By getting this fundamental thing right, I think it'll improve your positioning to be able to play better backhands.

2 - Practice, practice, practice

I know this is obvious, but I was in a similar position to you not too long ago.

Decent FH that I was always confident on, but a BH that I would rarely attack with, as I just didn't have the confidence to go for it.

I spent an entire summer playing practice matches against people, and pretty much tried to hit everything on my BH.

At the start, I would lose (quickly) to people I would normally beat with my eyes closed.

The points were short, because I'd miss on ball 2/3/4, but I kept on going for it.

By the end of the summer, I had SO much more confidence, that I took it into the league that year and never looked back.

It is clear from your videos that you have the ability to hit good shots on your backhand, and the main thing from stopping you is the thought of losing the point in one shot.

Your videos are 95% forehand - I want to see one that is 95% backhand 😊

3 - Get lower

Easy one to fix - Get lower.

Either spread your legs to give you a wider base (which brings your centre of gravity lower) - But you still need to be able to move quickly on your feet.

Or bend your knees more.

Too often, you are too tall/upright on your shots, and it's having a negative effect.


I was fully expecting to see a really trash backhand given your thread title 😂 but it's actually pretty solid when you are aggressive.

The big one is having that confidence to hit it continuously, rather than a big swing in a "hit and hope" sort of way.

Confidence comes with practice (lots of it) - Don't worry about losing easily in those practice games.

If you recorded another video, where you hit 95% backhands and then uploaded it to this thread, you might find some more in depth answers that would help.

Good luck!
Really really great breakdown. I appreciate the time you took and even capture some footage to show what you mean, which gave me more of a rough idea what to work on!
It's a highlight video, which is bad in this perspective but I wanted something to work on tomorrow, I provided some timestamps when I did my backhands but still, it's not enough to really see.

You're absolutely right on everything you wrote. Well noted. I'll try record another video with only backhand shots, wins and fails and upload sometime in the future - but I want to practice it a bit first. Blocking for me feels weird when holding the racket sideways, I've always blocked in that weird motion - and it's a bad habit that's hard to get rid off. If I turn my wrist around and block on the side, it's easier for me to get my wrist locked up and the spin doubles when it hits my blade - and I miss. But I'm working on it, since it's as youre saying - it ruins my opportunities to get into a attacking position. Thank you once again for this breakdown and encouraging feedback! Heavily appreciated!
 

NDH

says Spin to win!
Really really great breakdown. I appreciate the time you took and even capture some footage to show what you mean, which gave me more of a rough idea what to work on!
It's a highlight video, which is bad in this perspective but I wanted something to work on tomorrow, I provided some timestamps when I did my backhands but still, it's not enough to really see.

You're absolutely right on everything you wrote. Well noted. I'll try record another video with only backhand shots, wins and fails and upload sometime in the future - but I want to practice it a bit first. Blocking for me feels weird when holding the racket sideways, I've always blocked in that weird motion - and it's a bad habit that's hard to get rid off. If I turn my wrist around and block on the side, it's easier for me to get my wrist locked up and the spin doubles when it hits my blade - and I miss. But I'm working on it, since it's as youre saying - it ruins my opportunities to get into a attacking position. Thank you once again for this breakdown and encouraging feedback! Heavily appreciated!

I can block like that sometimes as well, and it's usually an instinct type thing....

But when I really try and get my wrist straight, force my head down and closer to the ball whilst staying low..... I find my blocking shots become much better (and then the rest of the game becomes better!)

I do feel you are only one summer of practice away from having a really consistent backhand though - You have all the tools!

Looking forward to seeing the progress 😁
 
  • Love
Reactions: Cypereze
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Oct 2019
1,854
852
3,212
Read 4 reviews
Would you mind giving some more footage. I looked again at those two from initial post. I think I've seen mostly forehand from the whole table :p From those very few shots, I think the issue is that you are a bit late. Not enough late to miss the ball, but late enough to grip bottom of your rubber.

Could you maybe record yourself with the highest framerate possible provided by your phone and upload the video to gdrive? (some phones go to like 120fps, that would be great).

Also question to ask would be, where do you feel you are hitting the ball?
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Apr 2023
12
4
22
I can block like that sometimes as well, and it's usually an instinct type thing....

But when I really try and get my wrist straight, force my head down and closer to the ball whilst staying low..... I find my blocking shots become much better (and then the rest of the game becomes better!)

I do feel you are only one summer of practice away from having a really consistent backhand though - You have all the tools!

Looking forward to seeing the progress 😁
I get what you mean, I will try to focus more on blocking since its such a major game changer as well.

The issue is, I haven't played for around 6 years - and I only play once in a week, which doesn't give me the practice and dedication it actually needs. (Girlfriend, job, weird hours with training etc) So I only get once in a week to get better, which is hard - but I do really love the sport and I'm determined to get better, I eventually want to start competing again.

I'll upload whenever I train again, I'm very grateful that you want to see the progress, it makes me thrive to become better for sure!
 
  • Like
Reactions: NDH
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Apr 2023
12
4
22
Here is a thing of what I thing is going on (again, on provided footage its hard to see, but it matches the symptoms).

BTW. If you master knowing when you touch the ball you can trick your opponents by varying spin (contact on the edge less spin, contact center more spin and power)
Ah.. As where I'm now, I'm only contacting the center of the rubber which would generate the most spin - but I'm contacting the middle point, and I'm not getting the full-action brush motion - so it becomes flat with a medium speed. I think it's because my timing is off (either to early, or too late) and this is where I have my issue, as for forehand, the hit is alike with backhand, but I put tons of sidespin on my forehand shots, so when I hit with forehand I hit closer with the edge for longer brushing point - but with backhand everything is so different and uncommon with me - it just doesn't feel right or safe.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Apr 2023
12
4
22
Would you mind giving some more footage. I looked again at those two from initial post. I think I've seen mostly forehand from the whole table :p From those very few shots, I think the issue is that you are a bit late. Not enough late to miss the ball, but late enough to grip bottom of your rubber.

Could you maybe record yourself with the highest framerate possible provided by your phone and upload the video to gdrive? (some phones go to like 120fps, that would be great).

Also question to ask would be, where do you feel you are hitting the ball?
Will do! I have to wait til probably next week, because my training partner canceled tomorrow. But I will try to get a good angle, and only show backhand this time. I feel like the impact would be center, and not in a brushing way, more like a punching way. So it doesn't generate any spin, only mediocre speed and it's quite flat.

Thanks for your reply, really appreciate it!
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Mar 2022
645
310
1,421
1- your racket is definitely not adapted to your level, so as it's too fast for you, you can't get enough dwell time of it to impart enough spin with your BH strokes.

2- you mostly play open angles with your BH, with a descending chop motion, with a so fast setup of course it's a treat for your opponents as they receive a high ball they can easily kill.

3- as you said: your grip is, maybe ? too tense, release it a bit, and you'll avoid all those wrist pains.

4- your BH motion is most of the time flat covering the ball on BH attacks, at this point short pips on the BH would better suit your game, or even why not ! half long pips that could be really deceptive for your opponents when you chop the ball near the table as you do most of the time, something like the Victas Curl P3v would be perfect in that case as it allows flat attacks near the table https://www.victas.com/en_gb/products/rubber/longpimples/curl-p3v
 
says Buttefly Forever!!!
says Buttefly Forever!!!
Well-Known Member
Mar 2021
2,398
2,426
5,564
Come on guys ( USDC & Jim ),

Let's put this aside to quell any doubt. I am sure the OP can beat me 1,000:1, so let's just agree on that and put that aside and move on.

With regards to the video, it was awesome. OP asked regarding BH and I, coincidentally have this clip with me from my previous tourney, It shows, a backspin serve, a typical push by the opponent and the server ( moi ) using a BH open up and it loops over and score a point, classic 3rd ball attack and got a point. How much more text-book do you want?
View attachment f68db43f-b967-4f4a-9b31-e8b4d25ce169.mov


I have been in the wonderful forum for sometime to hang out to talk about my hobby ( TT ) and the flavour I gather is that the mod and regulars do encourage participants to put video of them for sharing, and in good faith I did.

There are other posters here who have never posted any video giving comment and yet because there were no video of them, critics do not ridicule. If that is the case, wouldn't it be a subtle message the mod is sending that if you send video, you risk being ridiculed but if you don't send a vid, you are safe. Hence you are sending a confusing message. So what is it that the mod want here? Video or no video?

Think carefully mod, you are sending a confusing message to potential video poster.

NB: I do not mind the ridicule because for me, TT is purely a hobby and I am not dependent on it for my livelihood. So, even if I suck at it, it is OK for me. To me, it is just a game.
 
Last edited:
Top