Hurricane 3 neo

[lodro]

I'm still relatively young and with few physical limitations,

This is the condition that still allows you to make this statement: "our ceilings can be a lot higher than you may think."
................. once you will reach MY condition, things look a bit different. Once you are in your mid 70s, are relying on replacement drugs to keep yourself alive and have brain damage on top of physical short -comings you will be able to touch the ceiling of possibilities with your hand.

Couple of weeks ago i plaid with a club mate that was 6 years older than me - now he's dead.

 

[Zeen]

Why is brushing without compressing the sponge bad?

bad in various situations, because it is limiting. can't play fast topspin against empty ball. Can't play topspin at all in humid conditions. Can't play fast low arcing shots with consistency. If you close the racket to play forward you hit edge more often.

There are more and less useful techniques depending on the balls you get. Brushing makes a lot of sense against backspin but less so against empty ball. In the current age speed and placement is key, so learning how to make good use of the primary entity that allows for speed and control is key as well.

 

[NextLevel]

Sure, our bodies place a limit on us, but just look at the paralympians and see how well they can play with their limitations. These two ladies would probably kick my butt:

On our board @NextLevel has two pretty bad knees but he's always interested in learning and is always looking for ways to get around his limitations.

I'm still relatively young and with few physical limitations, but when I came back to the game after an almost decade long hiatus, many lbs of added weight, and a few significant injuries, I was determined to change my game to something more sustainable. I suffered through over a year of stagnant/decreased level of play to develop a backhand and play a balanced two-wing style, and it's only the past month or so that I'm starting to see it pay off.

We will never reach Ma Long's level, but our ceilings can be a lot higher than you may think.

To be fair you are both making different points. His point is more that there are people for whom training may not make a difference to their overall level (the nature argument) and you are making the point that no matter your physical (and possibly mental) condition, there are ways to get better. I think you are both right but the devil is always in the details and no one knows the future answer for any specific person. The paralympic examples you gave are excellent. While China might beg to differ with its athletic and competitive assessments used to select children into sports, it still remains the case that no one can fully measure the passion and meticulous practice that any individual will bring to whatever he falls in love with and how far that might take them. We just see the outcomes and then hindsight is 20-20. In reality , we can do it somewhat at a portfolio level but no one is predicting a Deng Yaping at the individual level.

 

[NextLevel]

bad in various situations, because it is limiting. can't play fast topspin against empty ball. Can't play topspin at all in humid conditions. Can't play fast low arcing shots with consistency. If you close the racket to play forward you hit edge more often.

There are more and less useful techniques depending on the balls you get. Brushing makes a lot of sense against backspin but less so against empty ball. In the current age speed and placement is key, so learning how to make good use of the primary entity that allows for speed and control is key as well.

These are all true in context but are not absolute and sometimes cannot be discussed insightful without looking at a specific player, strengths and weaknesses ans relative level. Timo Boll clearly brushes too much as one example. What has that done for his game? His high arcing topspin style gives some players fits. Others just drive through it. Wang Manyu is another example of someone who brushes too much on the forehand and has tried to reduce it. But she still brushes even with all the reductions her ball is just better quality now.

 

[Zeen]

you seem to assume that brushing = not enaging the sponge. But I would not say they are mutually exclusive.
Doing both is perfectly fine. There is still a range of trading some speed for spin and vice versa. But spin is more difficult to consistently play these days without giving the opponent chance to smash or make an error yourself trying to keep up the quality so the smash doesnt happen. Being able to play the ball flat and fast is a major advantage in the open rally. Being able to play controlled spin with some brush and sponge engagement in the open rally is roughly equally valuable, as either one seems roughly equally effective these days.

But my point is, hurricane just makes both options harder, so you are putting the setting to max difficulty, while getting a questionable return on investment.

 

[greenbeanmachine]

But my point is, hurricane just makes both options harder, so you are putting the setting to max difficulty, while getting a questionable return on investment.

I thought Hurricane makes brushing easier, and engaging the sponge harder ?

 

[NextLevel]

you seem to assume that brushing = not enaging the sponge. But I would not say they are mutually exclusive.
Doing both is perfectly fine. There is still a range of trading some speed for spin and vice versa. But spin is more difficult to consistently play these days without giving the opponent chance to smash or make an error yourself trying to keep up the quality so the smash doesnt happen. Being able to play the ball flat and fast is a major advantage in the open rally. Being able to play controlled spin with some brush and sponge engagement in the open rally is roughly equally valuable, as either one seems roughly equally effective these days.

But my point is, hurricane just makes both options harder, so you are putting the setting to max difficulty, while getting a questionable return on investment.

No, I am not assuming anything, you said that brushing without compressing the sponge is a bad thing, so I am trying to understand where you are coming from.

The truth is that brushing without compressing the sponge is almost impossible, you need the ball to get to the wood to play any realistic ball. So even on serves, you compress the sponge when you brush.

What people complain about and what they usually mean by brushing without compressing the sponge is when you brush without getting forward impact, but it is all relative, the advantages and disadvantages are all relative to playing level. Yes, nowadays, people don't struggle with rotation as much with the bigger and less spin sensitive balls, but that is still relative. And while it is your opinion that it only makes sense to brush against backspin, let's hear it from a pro's mouth what pros actually practice in the training halls:

 

[Zeen]

No, I am not assuming anything, you said that brushing without compressing the sponge is a bad thing, so I am trying to understand where you are coming from.

The truth is that brushing without compressing the sponge is almost impossible, you need the ball to get to the wood to play any realistic ball. So even on serves, you compress the sponge when you brush.

What people complain about and what they usually mean by brushing without compressing the sponge is when you brush without getting forward impact, but it is all relative, the advantages and disadvantages are all relative to playing level. Yes, nowadays, people don't struggle with rotation as much with the bigger and less spin sensitive balls, but that is still relative. And while it is your opinion that it only makes sense to brush against backspin, let's hear it from a pro's mouth what pros actually practice in the training halls:

Again. I NEVER said it makes sense ONLY to brush against backspin.
I instead stated that it makes a lot of sense to brush against BS, and less so on other balls.

This is the second time in a row you have twisted my words to invalidate my arguments in an obvious effort to discredit me.
I have to report you, because I warned you before to read more carefully, and you did the exact same thing again, so I have to assume malice now.

Also, you dont have to tell me what the "pro's" are doing. I frequently speak and take coaching sessions from 1st and 2nd division Bundesliga players (NOT germany), so if anything what I say is based on their opinions and the conclusions I draw from their input.

The question I answered was "why is brushing without compressing the sponge bad" and that I did, anything you said went off of some tangent, so I will leave it at that.

 

[NetProphet]

Ma Lin Extra Offensive is a blade made for penholders. It is made so that you have good feeling in the penhold position -- thumb and index on the wings, other fingers behind the blade. If you're not a penholder, you are somewhat misusing this blade and will miss out on the feeling that it offers. @lucatt are you a penholder?

Well I'm not a penholder but it's also not the penhold version, it's an FL handle.
It might be that penhold gives different feeling with finger contact at different parts of the blade but either way it's still a fairly stiff blade I think, which gives it many strengths but good 'feeling' for a relatively new player doesn't seem to be one of them. I think most who excel with the FL version of this blade already know how to play.
Actually I just put a Rakza Z and Rakza 7 on it last night to try it again. It's been more than a yr since I've used it so I'm interested to see how it goes.

 

[NextLevel]

Again. I NEVER said it makes sense ONLY to brush against backspin.
I instead stated that it makes a lot of sense to brush against BS, and less so on other balls.

This is the second time in a row you have twisted my words to invalidate my arguments in an obvious effort to discredit me.
I have to report you, because I warned you before to read more carefully, and you did the exact same thing again, so I have to assume malice now.

Also, you dont have to tell me what the "pro's" are doing. I frequently speak and take coaching sessions from 1st and 2nd division Bundesliga players (NOT germany), so if anything what I say is based on their opinions and the conclusions I draw from their input.

The question I answered was "why is brushing without compressing the sponge bad" and that I did, anything you said went off of some tangent, so I will leave it at that.

Okay. Sorry i misreprsented you by saying that it only makes sense to brush against backspin. If that changes something material about what you have posted, please share what it is. My point was that brushing without compressing the sponge is a common misrepresentation of what happens when someone doesn't loop hard, and that sponge compression is always inevitable to get rebound. The real point is whether learning to brush even in the thin manner you describe as not compressing the aponge is important for developing a player and my point was that it is important enough that even advanced players still develop their action for doing it, regardless of whether it is supposedly the proper way to loop or not.

Which of the above do you have an issue with?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

@NextLevel :

@Zeen : this discussion does not seem to me to rise to the level of a post needing to be reported. NextLevel has giving information on something that may have been adjacent to what you were saying but it simply information. More information that deals with nuance is not a bad thing even if what he is talking about is not what you are talking about.

I would say, rather than becoming defensive on the subject, you could use it as an opportunity to refine how you expressed the information you are trying to get across.

I don't see any malicious intent from either of you. But in written word, often people don't fully understand what the other is trying to say. If it was only one sided, it would be one thing. But it seems you both may be missing the central point of what they other is trying to say. And by continuing to dialogue without taking technical information as being directed at you personally, you both, together, may add to the understanding of the rest of the forum. And, to my mind, that would be quite useful.

 

[_ak]

BTW, just have received H3Neo 39d, opened it and there is absolutely no rotten fish smell at all. Is it normal with never batches?

 

[Zeen]

@UpSideDownCarl I don't understand why it would be allowed to put words into another one's mouth to entirely misrepresent what they were saying and then basing an entire argument on that to attack someone's reputation.

Here is an example. Carl, I don't I think it's acceptable to dismiss others' viewpoints without understanding them, as long as they're providing 'nuance". Dismissing others’ viewpoints without understanding them, even if claiming to provide “nuance,” is fundamentally flawed and counterproductive. It shows a lack of respect and open-mindedness, missing valuable opportunities for learning and growth. This approach erodes constructive dialogue, leading to polarization and echo chambers. Additionally, it creates a false sense of intellectual superiority, as true nuance involves engaging with diverse perspectives. Ethically, we have a responsibility to engage thoughtfully and respectfully with others’ viewpoints, fostering a more inclusive and informed discourse. Your stance reflects a narrow-minded approach that undermines the principles of meaningful and respectful communication.

Distoring a quote, taking things out of context and basing an argument out of that slanders another one's reputation is not "simply information." Doesn't matter if malicious in intent or not.

I would ask you to delete or redact the paragraphs that entirely misrepresent what I said. I am at a stage in my tt career where 80% of the playerbase can learn from me and my time would be much more well spent elsewhere than on a forum where misquotations and slandering are considered normal behavior, so I would rather appreciate a thoughtful moderation.

 

[NextLevel]

@UpSideDownCarl I don't understand why it would be allowed to put words into another one's mouth to entirely misrepresent what they were saying and then basing an entire argument on that to attack someone's reputation.

Here is an example. Carl, I don't I think it's acceptable to dismiss others' viewpoints without understanding them, as long as they're providing 'nuance". Dismissing others’ viewpoints without understanding them, even if claiming to provide “nuance,” is fundamentally flawed and counterproductive. It shows a lack of respect and open-mindedness, missing valuable opportunities for learning and growth. This approach erodes constructive dialogue, leading to polarization and echo chambers. Additionally, it creates a false sense of intellectual superiority, as true nuance involves engaging with diverse perspectives. Ethically, we have a responsibility to engage thoughtfully and respectfully with others’ viewpoints, fostering a more inclusive and informed discourse. Your stance reflects a narrow-minded approach that undermines the principles of meaningful and respectful communication.

Distoring a quote, taking things out of context and basing an argument out of that slanders another one's reputation is not "simply information." Doesn't matter if malicious in intent or not.

I would ask you to delete or redact the paragraphs that entirely misrepresent what I said. I am at a stage in my tt career where 80% of the playerbase can learn from me and my time would be much more well spent elsewhere than on a forum where misquotations and slandering are considered normal behavior, so I would rather appreciate a thoughtful moderation.

You have been given a technical apology by me and asked to explain your substantive differences. In a forum where people can say whatever they want without having to prove anything, it doesn't get much better than that unless you actually substantiate what you are saying with some evidence. There are no paragraphs that entirely misrepresent anything you have said. The topic is complicated enough that people can even talk past each other when they are saying exactly the same thing.

You obviously don't understand the meaning of words like "slandering" and "misquotation", since at no point have I defamed you (I don't even know who you are or what your name is, and if our flags and posts are accurate, we don't even live in the same country) and I never quoted you, I paraphrased what I thought you said, you corrected it, and I apologized for the erroneous paraphrase and asked you to substantively explain based on my clarification what I was getting wrong.

In any case, I will let you continue to make your positions without needing to substantiate any of them (as in I have put you on my ignore list, just as you can put me on yours). Others can decide whether it is possible/good for beginners to use slow Chinese rubbers like H3 or not and whether using H3 makes a beginner unable to get spin or speed. My position, for anyone who cares, has always been that it is possible to use just about anything to learn equipment wise as long as one gets coaching to use it, and if not getting coaching, one should use something fairly slow that enables the user to respond to feedback. But the most important thing about using any equipment for learning is the coach's philosophy for developing the player and rarely the equipment itself.

The substantive point in my mind in the context of what was being discussed is what does it mean to brush with mostly topsheet and is it a bad thing for a developing player/learner? I think anyone who reviews the substance of what we are discussing will hardly assume that I put words into your mouth.

And with that, I bid you a permanent farewell.

 

[Zwill]

BTW, just have received H3Neo 39d, opened it and there is absolutely no rotten fish smell at all. Is it normal with never batches?

I noticed this too with recent H3N I opened. I can only speculate they don't give it as much or any factory treatment. Is DHS cutting corners (which they really are if you think about commercial and prov versions) or many asked for this and they obliged...? Or something else? I leave it to anyone's fantasy.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

@UpSideDownCarl I don't understand

Do you really think I should edit posts from people for no apparent reason just because you don't like what the person posted or feel it presents an idea about equipment and/or technique that is different from the perspective you have just presented?

If you really read and try and understand what NextLevel is saying, he is not making statements about you, he is not saying anything personal about you, he is talking about rubber, contact quality and TT technique. And it seems that while accusing NextLevel of not understanding what you posted AND OTHER things, you don't seem to have taken the time to understand what he posted.

To me it seems you have spent much more time talking directly about NextLevel rather than trying to explain what you are talking about concerning brush contact and the benefits of other rubbers as opposed to H3.

Feel free to post or not post. But don't expect me to delete content simply because someone is offering an opinion about equipment and technique that is slightly different than the information you have posted.

It is interesting when someone is seeming to act like the only active moderator on this forum is actually being paid to perform a service specifically for him.

This is what I actually do on the forum: I delete spam. I remove spam accounts. When people start making actual personal attacks, I may delete a bunch of posts. But I don't want to be doing any of that. All of the time I put into trying to make the forum run in acceptable way is time I AM DONATING to the forum. I do not get paid. I do not get anything from it aside from helping the forum stay semi-functional.

And, in this thread, I do not see any personal attacks. But the closest thing to personal attacks, to me, seems to be coming from the person asking for other people's posts to be edited or deleted.

 

[Comodoensis]

Hi guys,
so im like an intermideate player can play every shot but need to work on consistensy. My dream setup, im looking for right now is:
Blade: Donic Original True Carbon Innerforce
BH: Xiom Vega Pro H max red
FH: Hurricane 3 neo 2.2 black
Would you recommend this setup, do you think it would fit me, because im not sure like what my level really is and what setup would be good for me. Can you say anything on the Blade and rubbers?
I am also a bit worried abou the Hurricane, because i've heard some players say that it's really hard for not chinese or asian that played with that rubber for there whole life that it's really hard to play with because you need a lot of weight transfer.
And if I buy Hurrican, do you think I should boost it or not, does it get to fast if I boost it? Sometimes they also are pre-boosted in the factory.
Thank you all.

Well, if consistency is something need to be worked on, maybe it's better to not changing your rubber-blade combinations. Unless the rubbers are 'dead' (topsheet or sponge degraded due to usage), well, replace them with the exact same rubbers 😬

 

[U871247]

Hi guys,
so im like an intermideate player can play every shot but need to work on consistensy. My dream setup, im looking for right now is:
Blade: Donic Original True Carbon Innerforce
BH: Xiom Vega Pro H max red
FH: Hurricane 3 neo 2.2 black
Would you recommend this setup, do you think it would fit me, because im not sure like what my level really is and what setup would be good for me. Can you say anything on the Blade and rubbers?
I am also a bit worried abou the Hurricane, because i've heard some players say that it's really hard for not chinese or asian that played with that rubber for there whole life that it's really hard to play with because you need a lot of weight transfer.
And if I buy Hurrican, do you think I should boost it or not, does it get to fast if I boost it? Sometimes they also are pre-boosted in the factory.
Thank you all.

I have the same issue where I can do all shots but have trouble with doing it consistently. Well the main answer to this is practice and drills but I also tried to assess if the equipment I'm using may have an effect on how I perform on certain shots. Previously I was using MXP on FH and H8-80 on BH and the MXP was too fast on my viscaria so I tried changing it to fastarc G1. I also chnged BH to fastarc C1 and the result was "superb control". I'm not saying that it made may shots more consistent, but it gave me this confidence and feel where I think all of the shots that I want to try will go in the opponents side of the table. HAHAHA. The reason why I'm sharing this is for u to try first a setup that is more on control as it may help u do ur shots more consistently.

 

[Zezima]

I agree, you dont need hurricane, its all about technique.

I dont agree about the part of hurricane not being good for development players. I am one and hurricane fits me better than any other rubber that I tested, mainly because I love how it plays in serve receives, it just boosts my confidence.

For looping, I‘d say it doesn’t matter if I use hurricane or a ESN type like fastarc g1, can get used to either one.

On a sidenote, the vega pro H is rlly slow on BH and was not so much for me (but need to test it more)

Do you still use Hurricane on your fh?

 

[doppelmoral]

Do you still use Hurricane on your fh?

Yes