Hurricane Neo blue sponge provincial v national and 2.1 v 2.15

[ttarc]

What are the differences in performance between national sets, provincial sets, and hurricane sets? What are the common specifications for national team members? What is the difference between star national sets and national sets?
National hurricane sets, provincial hurricane sets, and general hurricane sets use the same formula. The main difference between the three is the tolerance accuracy of the indicators. For example, the hardness requirements of national team athletes can be accurate to 0.5 degrees and the thickness can be accurate to 0.05mm, so the detection tolerance range of national sets is smaller. The detection tolerance range for general athletes is slightly relaxed.
In addition, in different periods, top-notch players such as Ma Long will have different requirements for the viscosity of the rubber or the hardness of the sponge, which requires fine-tuning. Therefore, there are slight differences in the national sets of different stars, and there are also differences in the same star player in different technical cycles or event cycles....

Blue Provincial Madness seems to have increased in weight? Is it due to the formula adjustment or the glue? Starting from 2021, the blue sponge rubber used by the national team, provincial and municipal teams has been toughened. After the sponge toughness is improved, the sponge will withstand more and more intensive impact force and increase the service life of the sponge. After the blue sponge is toughened, the bottom strength is stronger, and the weight is slightly increased, generally 3-5 grams heavier.

See https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/dhs-fans-unite.28518/post-529310 for links to the source

That was translated using Google Translate so maybe it is not 100% correct.
In my area I would assume that they mean that the thickness can be nominal thickness ± 0.05 mm (which would basically mean that a 2.1 mm sponge can be a 2.15 mm in reality and vice versa) but I'm not sure if this is what DHS means. Measuring such thicknesses which such uncertainties (and lower uncertainties) can be done in production but again I don't know what DHS does, how well DHS controls production environments (temperature, humidity and so on).

 

[piligrim]

Personal experience isn’t proof but yet your word is just the truth all of a sudden. I see. Still yet to hear your sources dude.

Just to add one more thought, if DHS made WCQ’s personal H3, which means they make the time and effort to tailor it to his needs, produce the highest possible quality rubber with 0 QC issues and variability, and make zero difference to each rubber they produce for him, but they change the thickness from his usual 2.1 to 2.15, you are saying he should not tell a difference?

WCQ might feel difference but it might be possible to feel only at his level

 

[joshmak10]

WCQ might feel difference but it might be possible to feel only at his level

But yet the guy claims 0.05 doesn’t make a difference. At all. And has zero proof that the 0.05 doesn’t make a difference other than “trust me bro”

 

[longle]

Are y'all crazy? Difference is literally 0.05mm, that's unnoticeable both by an eye and your hand. Thinner than a human hair. Pure placebo, pseudoscience. Hell, it's less than the thickness variation you already get from factory unevenness

I think you have to reach a certain level to notice that. For beginners all rubbers are the same because they don't know how to penetrate the sponge. Just 0.05mm difference can make the ball clear or hit the net in critical situations.

 

[vossi39]

Personal experience isn’t proof but yet your word is just the truth all of a sudden. I see. Still yet to hear your sources dude.

Just to add one more thought, if DHS made WCQ’s personal H3, which means they make the time and effort to tailor it to his needs, produce the highest possible quality rubber with 0 QC issues and variability, and make zero difference to each rubber they produce for him, but they change the thickness from his usual 2.1 to 2.15, you are saying he should not tell a difference?

I also think that StreamOfWater is right. In a double blind test even WCQ will not be able to feel a difference. Not even at that level.

Your understanding of rubber production seem to be very different from reality. No one at DHS will say "Lets produce some sheets for WCQ today". The production for all sheets, be it commercial, provincial or national is everytime the same. It is QC that separates them later.
The ones that are on the thicker end of the variances will be labled 2.15 and the rest goes to 2.1. Could be even that 2.15 is 2.2 in reality after measurement.

That WCQ or other stars may prefer a thicker sponge, might just be a coincidence. They tested a couple of sheets. The ones they like were measured and found out to be thicker. Does that mean he could "detect" the thicker sponges in a batch of sheets randomly given to him with a precision that is beyond statistical variation. I highly doubt. I think we are projecting technical super powers to these guys and I tend to be on the side with people that think, that some of their preferences are nothing but supersticions. They want to believe that it makes a difference, so it makes a difference for them. But is there any factual evidence? No.

Will we ever be sure? No. We can debate for year. Without a scientifically design of experiment we will not be having the data to judge. The ones that would have the money to do such an experiment do not have an interesst in bringing the truth to light, as there is healthy market for those "variences".

It is clever marketing to distribute your manufacturing inaccuracys as product variances that matter.
You and I will never be able to tell the difference between 2.1 and 2.15. And after 2 layers of booster, you will also not be able to tell the difference between a 41.5 or 40.0 sponge. But hey, pay for the National Star Edition of H3 Neo BS WCQ edition as it will make you feel so much stronger in matches and if you win more matches it is well spent money.

Back to Topic. Buy provincial and skip the thickness. What ever is cheaper the week you buy, buy it, boost it and be happy.

 

[longle]

I also think that StreamOfWater is right. In a double blind test even WCQ will not be able to feel a difference. Not even at that level.

Your understanding of rubber production seem to be very different from reality. No one at DHS will say "Lets produce some sheets for WCQ today". The production for all sheets, be it commercial, provincial or national is everytime the same. It is QC that separates them later.
The ones that are on the thicker end of the variances will be labled 2.15 and the rest goes to 2.1. Could be even that 2.15 is 2.2 in reality after measurement.

That WCQ or other stars may prefer a thicker sponge, might just be a coincidence. They tested a couple of sheets. The ones they like were measured and found out to be thicker. Does that mean he could "detect" the thicker sponges in a batch of sheets randomly given to him with a precision that is beyond statistical variation. I highly doubt. I think we are projecting technical super powers to these guys and I tend to be on the side with people that think, that some of their preferences are nothing but supersticions. They want to believe that it makes a difference, so it makes a difference for them. But is there any factual evidence? No.

Will we ever be sure? No. We can debate for year. Without a scientifically design of experiment we will not be having the data to judge. The ones that would have the money to do such an experiment do not have an interesst in bringing the truth to light, as there is healthy market for those "variences".

It is clever marketing to distribute your manufacturing inaccuracys as product variances that matter.
You and I will never be able to tell the difference between 2.1 and 2.15. And after 2 layers of booster, you will also not be able to tell the difference between a 41.5 or 40.0 sponge. But hey, pay for the National Star Edition of H3 Neo BS WCQ edition as it will make you feel so much stronger in matches and if you win more matches it is well spent money.

Back to Topic. Buy provincial and skip the thickness. What ever is cheaper the week you buy, buy it, boost it and be happy.

so why there are many many Viscaria-clones and W968-clones with the exact compositions but none of them can have the exact feeling of the original? I think the same applies to rubbers, thought the variable in rubbers are much more smaller make it harder to distinguish.

 

[thisisit]

Sure, perhaps I have phrased it in quite poor manner, but it's truly a silly nonsense. It's like saying a 1-meter rope gives more swing than a 0.9995-meter rope. It's borderline insane, knowing that no rubber is 100% identical because of factory inaccuracies and no one here is such a high level to even try and demand such perfection from suppliers. No way anyone is noticing that difference in sponge thickness. Thinking purely objectively here. Especially when most people boost here and it's less than the thickness you gain from boosting (2-3 layers easily add 0.1-0.2 mm)

no it's not like saying a 1-meter rope gives more swing than a 0.9995-meter rope. it's like saying a 1-meter rope gives more swing than a 0.976-meter rope. your analogy is off by almost 2 orders of magnitude. would you not notice for example: your monthly income go from $100 to $2?

i sure feel i can distinguish 2.15 h3n bs from 2.10 h3n bs on the same blade, but i didn't do a proper double blind experiment and derived this conclusion from the data so i'm hesitant to strongly believe in this, feeling of mine.

oh wait, you didn't do a proper experiment either!

 

[StreamOfWater]

so why there are many many Viscaria-clones and W968-clones with the exact compositions but none of them can have the exact feeling of the original? I think the same applies to rubbers, thought the variable in rubbers are much more smaller make it harder to distinguish.

Because there is no such thing as an exactly identical blade or rubber. These are mass-produced items, and no factory is going to invest the resources required to achieve true 1:1 precision at this level — the cost would be 2–4× higher and completely unrealistic for retail products. If you demanded repeatable, ±0.01 mm precision with tight QC, it would even be much more than that

In practice, manufacturing tolerances, material variation, boosting, humidity, and handling all introduce differences that are larger than 0.05 mm. At the very top level, players may get hand-selected equipment and still make adjustments — but that’s a different context entirely from retail sheets

I don’t claim to have lab measurements; this is simply logical reasoning based on how manufacturing works and how many uncontrolled variables are involved. If someone prefers 2.1 over 2.15, that’s perfectly fine — I’m only skeptical that the difference people feel can be reliably attributed to a 0.05 mm thickness change rather than the many larger factors at play

If others disagree, that’s fine. I’ve shared my reasoning and I’m happy to leave it there. As @vossi39 explains well, quality control and selection are what separate sheets — they are not produced as independently precise variants, and margin for error plays a major role. Otherwise believe what you believe in

 

[piligrim]

so why there are many many Viscaria-clones and W968-clones with the exact compositions but none of them can have the exact feeling of the original? I think the same applies to rubbers, thought the variable in rubbers are much more smaller make it harder to distinguish.

Even two original Viscarias don't feel same. Even blades makers like SDC not able to make 2 identical blades.

 

[longle]

Because there is no such thing as an exactly identical blade or rubber. These are mass-produced items, and no factory is going to invest the resources required to achieve true 1:1 precision at this level — the cost would be 2–4× higher and completely unrealistic for retail products. If you demanded repeatable, ±0.01 mm precision with tight QC, it would even be much more than that

In practice, manufacturing tolerances, material variation, boosting, humidity, and handling all introduce differences that are larger than 0.05 mm. At the very top level, players may get hand-selected equipment and still make adjustments — but that’s a different context entirely from retail sheets

I don’t claim to have lab measurements; this is simply logical reasoning based on how manufacturing works and how many uncontrolled variables are involved. If someone prefers 2.1 over 2.15, that’s perfectly fine — I’m only skeptical that the difference people feel can be reliably attributed to a 0.05 mm thickness change rather than the many larger factors at play

If others disagree, that’s fine. I’ve shared my reasoning and I’m happy to leave it there. As @vossi39 explains well, quality control and selection are what separate sheets — they are not produced as independently precise variants, and margin for error plays a major role. Otherwise believe what you believe in

A CNT member explained why Prov and NT version of H3 are all 2.1, and Commercial H3 are 2.15 and 2.2mm. Do you think he couldn't distingush them?

 

[latej]

A CNT member explained why Prov and NT version of H3 are all 2.1, and Commercial H3 are 2.15 and 2.2mm. Do you think he couldn't distingush them?

Prov (2 corners cut) H3N BS 2.15 H41.

 

[piligrim]

A CNT member explained why Prov and NT version of H3 are all 2.1, and Commercial H3 are 2.15 and 2.2mm. Do you think he couldn't distingush them?

What explain CNT member its for other CNT members and players similar level. Its not apply on us. Rubber he said ruined I can use perfectly for 1-2 year

 

[belllfador]

The cheapest provincial H3 BS is 2.2mm. Why? Because nobody buys it. Why? Because after 3–5 layers of booster will exceed 4mm, also, lose some control points. Why boosting? Because that is H3 destiny.

 

[longle]

ye

View attachment 39501

Prov (2 corners cut) H3N BS 2.15 H41.

yes it exists, but I don't think pros actually use it, or I haven't heard of. This is actually "Commercial" Prov version.

 

[latej]

yes it exists, but I don't think pros actually use it, or I haven't heard of. This is actually "Commercial" Prov version.

Ahhh, yes, I see, that is why I am still losing some matches...

 

[longle]

Ahhh, yes, I see, that is why I am still losing some matches...

jokes aside, the commercial Prov, and even commercial NT in the market are different from what the pros use, but not by a far margin.

as you already know I am Vietnamese, so I can get exclusive H3 easier. All of them are 2.1mm so there must be a reason for that.

 

[ttarc]

Your understanding of rubber production seem to be very different from reality. No one at DHS will say "Lets produce some sheets for WCQ today". The production for all sheets, be it commercial, provincial or national is everytime the same. It is QC that separates them later.

As DHS says: "In addition, in different periods, top-notch players such as Ma Long will have different requirements for the viscosity of the rubber or the hardness of the sponge, which requires fine-tuning. Therefore, there are slight differences in the national sets of different stars, and there are also differences in the same star player in different technical cycles or event cycles"
Maybe it's all QC, maybe different production runs and QC.

 

[latej]

Now how bout a June 2026 visit to Germany, @longle PLEEEAAASE!

 

[latej]

Wouldn't it be good if @Tony's Table Tennis would chime in and tell from 1st hand exp. too...