Hybrid rubbers how close to Tacky Chinese or Grippy ESN spring sponge?

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Originally, the term hybrid rubbers were Chinese topsheets with a borrowed sponge from jpn or German sponge. Nowadays, people use the term hybrid loosely.
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Hi Yogi,

Good to see you are getting back into the swing of things and recovering.
Yeah it's now become a classification of rubber type in it's own right !!!
For me the 1st and main criteria is the tackiness of the top sheet!!! That's the first thing everyone checks with 'Chinese' and 'Hybrid' rubbers, with some of the Chinese rubbers all you have to do is open the pack and the resultant smell tells you the rubber will be tacky!!

 
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I wonder why no one is mentioning Thors. I find it excellent with the new ball or at least definitely better than with the celluloid


Probably because it's impossible to find it anymore. Since the hybrid market is growing more and more, with big name companies paying attention to it, lower brands products like Palio are disappearing from that market, now it's all about Tibhar K's, Yasaka RZ's, Donic BG's or BTY 09C. Even Nittaku who was, as Yogi said, the japanese brand who took the hybrid name just...right, by assembling bouncy japan made sponges with chinese topsheets, isn't considered anymore by the OP as being a brand producing hybrid rubbers. Even an H8 isn't considered as an hybrid although it was the biggest effort made by DHS to produce a somehow elastic/bouncy sponge + tacky topsheet rubber.

The market has manipulated the minds too much strongly over the years. Being a purist, like Yogi, would also exclude those H8's, and being too much receptive to market manipulations, like IB66, excludes those "old" rubbers like the Thors or the Nittaku HP3TO or HP3TB.

"Hybrid" should not be the ESN or BTY's exclusive trademarks. What's a "chinese" rubber ? we all agree it's a combination of a hard dead sponge + tacky topsheet, the only difference is the sponge with hybrids ones, ESN and BTY are definitely NOT the only factories to make bouncy sponges.

 
Music&Ping;344428 said:


Probably because it's impossible to find it anymore. Since the hybrid market is growing more and more, with big name companies paying attention to it, lower brands products like Palio are disappearing from that market, now it's all about Tibhar K's, Yasaka RZ's, Donic BG's or BTY 09C. Even Nittaku who was, as Yogi said, the japanese brand who took the hybrid name just...right, by assembling bouncy japan made sponges with chinese topsheets, isn't considered anymore by the OP as being a brand producing hybrid rubbers. Even an H8 isn't considered as an hybrid although it was the biggest effort made by DHS to produce a somehow elastic/bouncy sponge + tacky topsheet rubber.

The market has manipulated the minds too much strongly over the years. Being a purist, like Yogi, would also exclude those H8's, and being too much receptive to market manipulations, like IB66, excludes those "old" rubbers like the Thors or the Nittaku HP3TO or HP3TB.

"Hybrid" should not be the ESN or BTY's exclusive trademarks. What's a "chinese" rubber ? we all agree it's a combination of a hard dead sponge + tacky topsheet, the only difference is the sponge with hybrids ones, ESN and BTY are definitely NOT the only factories to make bouncy sponges.

I would describe them as rubbers with hybrid characteristics i.e. tacky top with springy sponge but not a hybrid rubber itself.

 
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Music&Ping;344428 said:


Probably because it's impossible to find it anymore. Since the hybrid market is growing more and more, with big name companies paying attention to it, lower brands products like Palio are disappearing from that market, now it's all about Tibhar K's, Yasaka RZ's, Donic BG's or BTY 09C. Even Nittaku who was, as Yogi said, the japanese brand who took the hybrid name just...right, by assembling bouncy japan made sponges with chinese topsheets, isn't considered anymore by the OP as being a brand producing hybrid rubbers. Even an H8 isn't considered as an hybrid although it was the biggest effort made by DHS to produce a somehow elastic/bouncy sponge + tacky topsheet rubber.

The market has manipulated the minds too much strongly over the years. Being a purist, like Yogi, would also exclude those H8's, and being too much receptive to market manipulations, like IB66, excludes those "old" rubbers like the Thors or the Nittaku HP3TO or HP3TB.

"Hybrid" should not be the ESN or BTY's exclusive trademarks. What's a "chinese" rubber ? we all agree it's a combination of a hard dead sponge + tacky topsheet, the only difference is the sponge with hybrids ones, ESN and BTY are definitely NOT the only factories to make bouncy sponges.

Hi M&P

Just to clarify things, the Nittaku rubbers have been added to the list, i haven't 'excluded' Thors, I asked for more information.

if any other members want a rubber added then that's fine. but what is trying to be produced is a list of where these rubbers may sit, ie more towards a traditional 'traditional Chinese rubber' or more towards a non tacky (but grippy) top sheet with a very bouncy sponge (I have used the terms ESN/SS because generally, many on the forum associate 'a very bouncy sponge' with these brands.)

H8 doesn't really 'play like' a 'hybrid' rubber, and to a certain extent H3-50 (which i have used) and probably H3-60 (which I have not tried) play slightly differently and could be taken as more towards a 'hybrid' rubber but as Yogi said maybe not to be best to included.

Hybrid - I would agree with Yogi that this list is based on Characteristics rather than a 'borrowed' Chinese top sheet with a 'very bouncy sponge' from a different company.
On the flip side, a grippy top sheet combined with a 'dead' hard sponge could also be considered a 'Hybrid' not many (if any) of these around!! probably because they may be pretty crap to play with !!! ???

The rubbers on the list to start with (which has now been expanded) are rubbers that I have tried and used, which are from the manufacturers listed. I haven't used any rubbers made by Chinese or 'smaller' rubber manufacturers, that have been some of their attempts at a 'Hybrid' rubber. therefore i don't have knowledge of how they play, their characteristics etc and so it would be incorrect for me to just go ahead and place them within the list or within the 'scale' as it were.

As far as agreeing what the combination of a Chinese tacky Rubber is, to expand a little, hopefully you'll agree with -
Tacky Top Sheet - Yep agreed
Harder rubber / top sheet ???
Hard dead sponge - Not really,
Hard- yes,
Dense sponge with small bubbles - Yes,
Dead - No, the top sheet tackiness predominantly causes the initial lack of bounce. Cover a tacky top sheet with a film, therefore removing the tacky surface and do a bounce test, yep there is a reduction in the amount of bounce (but no where near what may be expected).

 
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Hi MK,

Having never tried K1/K2 etc, do you have any thoughts to where they would sit in the list?


K1 is a slower Euro rubber, K2 is a Chinese rubber made in Germany.

There is a reason why Hurricane remains popular, you either make something similar or go the other direction. I don't see any benefit to soft tacky rubbers.

 
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Anyone here tested the Bluegrip C2 and the Sieger PK50 ? Which one is the closest to the chinese side ?
I’ve used both, but didn’t get on very well with the PK50, Only recently used Bluegrip C2 (on a faster blade.)
Both are more toward the ‘very bouncy’ end. Maybe PK50 is closer to the Chinese side.
I’m not sure why, (I was really looking forward to using PK50) but just couldn’t get on with it, serves were very good loads of spin, but for the rest of my game i really struggled !! Still a great rubber in the right hands!!!
The C2 seems (for me) slightly easier to handle, it’s on a Zhang Jike ALC, the PK50 was on an Acoustic all wood.

 
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I’ve used both, but didn’t get on very well with the PK50, Only recently used Bluegrip C2 (on a faster blade.)
Both are more toward the ‘very bouncy’ end. Maybe PK50 is closer to the Chinese side.
I’m not sure why, (I was really looking forward to using PK50) but just couldn’t get on with it, serves were very good loads of spin, but for the rest of my game i really struggled !! Still a great rubber in the right hands!!!
The C2 seems (for me) slightly easier to handle, it’s on a Zhang Jike ALC, the PK50 was on an Acoustic all wood.

Interesting ! I'm using Bluegrip C2 both on my fh and bh and I'm quite satisfied. Compared to a Rasanter R47 it bounces a lot less so I thought it was more to the chinese side than the esn side (never tested a chinese rubber that's why I'm a bit lost).
 
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Interesting ! I'm using Bluegrip C2 both on my fh and bh and I'm quite satisfied. Compared to a Rasanter R47 it bounces a lot less so I thought it was more to the chinese side than the esn side (never tested a chinese rubber that's why I'm a bit lost).

The ESN rubbers nowadays are on a trend to have a tacky topsheet but are also at a very bouncy side

 
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Interesting ! I'm using Bluegrip C2 both on my fh and bh and I'm quite satisfied. Compared to a Rasanter R47 it bounces a lot less so I thought it was more to the chinese side than the esn side (never tested a chinese rubber that's why I'm a bit lost).

Yesterday I did a quick bounce test, H3 Neo with the film left on and Rakza Z no film, the bounce between the two was almost identical !! About 1 bounce less for the H3 Neo,
H3 Neo without film was less, as you’d expect.
Rakza Z has a lot less tackiness, holds ball for less than a second, H3 Neo held ball for much longer!!
C2 holds the ball for about the same time as Rakza Z and is slightly more bouncy!!

it’s sort of surprising that a slightly grippy top sheet like C2 or Rakza Z, D09C effects feel so much!!

 
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Music&Ping;344495 said:
ask the proeminant CNT players why they use a red 37° H3 on their backhand then...

If your contact with the ball involves digging a lot into the sponge while brushing it, soft tacky rubbers are viable.

 
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Music&Ping;344311 said:
Nittaku Hurricane Pro III Turbo Blue
Nittaku Hurricane Pro III Turbo Orange
Nittaku Sieger PK50
Victas Triple Regular (42.5°)
Victas Triple Extra (55° japan standard)
Victas Triple Double Extra (57.5°)

The Victas series is named from the TSP Triple series tacky rubbers, but the blue sponge is a new Victas made, and the topsheet is made in China.

TT11 quote the Triple Regular as having a 'less tacky' top sheet, could it be the original TSP Triple series top sheet?? possibly with original sponge??? with the 'new' Triple Extra and Triple Double Extra having the new 'recipe' top sheet and sponge??

 
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Anyone used the Yasaka Rising / Shining Dragon rubbers?

Yeah! But I expected something else. Bought two RD and still got one unwrapped. Anyone who´s got use for it and is willing to cover the shipment can have it. Better than catching dust on my shelf

 
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