I am a TPB-only player for now. Out of curiosity, is it easier to do TPB with Cpen or Jpen?

[Marc!_]

TPB is just fun to use and I wonder if it is better for traditional penholders to play CPEN or JPEN. I've seen CPEN use it more and more reliably (Toshio Tasaki, Kaii Yoshida, etc), and JPEN players mostly use the push and pivot to forehand (Ryu Seung Min, Chiang Peng Lung, Lee Jung Woo, etc). So I wonder if it is because JPEN is a lot more awkward (explains why they are forehand mains except Cazuo Matsumoto) or is it just not something that is popular/tried out yet?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Each has they own merits
Jpen on traditional punches are lightning fast too

 

[Marc!_]

Is it more awkward to perform the drive for JPEN since they seem more head-heavy? CPEN players like Toshio Tasaki and Kaii Yoshida have no issue using it, but players like Chiang Peng Lung and Ryu Seung Min would rather punch.

 

[jbvttcc]

I don’t think Jpen has any disadvantage with any backhand stroke.
Not saying it’s not possible to do more but it seems Cpen tpb players use tpb blocking primarily.
I think the Jpen handle may offer a more secure grip for a little more powerful tpb backhand stroke

 

[greenbeanmachine]

Having previously played jpen and now playing cpen (mostly tpb but I play rpb loops when pushed behind the table), my assessment is that jpen is better for tpb looping, while cpen is better for active blocking, punching, and flicking. I'm rated around 1600-1700.

As @jbvttcc says above, I agree that the jpen handle makes looping more secure and comfortable. With the jpen racket you gain stability by hooking the index finger on the handle, meaning that you can lock your wrist and use your forearm and shoulder to play big swinging shots (loops).

With the cpen blade you gain stability by holding the wide wings of the racket with your thumb and index finger -- I think this gives more flexibility and strength in the wrist, which works best for flicking, (chop) blocking, and punching. This is not to say that you can't play an offensive game with cpen tpb -- punching and flicking is pretty offensive. But you're not going to be doing that far from the table. That's where rpb comes in.

I think the square shape of a jpen blade requires the stability of the handle more: with cpen you can play with the blade vertically (handle facing up) but with jpen it is much more awkward to do this -- you either want the blade facing right or facing left.

Cpen blades are also designed for looping -- they have more surface area so that the ball can have more contact time with the blade. On the other hand, jpen blades are designed for driving -- they have very little surface area so you can't roll the blade across it as effectively as you can with a cpen blade.

 

[xavi]

- In cpen you move your wrist faster, so is better if you are close to the table.
- Jpen is IMHO more stable but a bit less fast too switch, so better a bit far of the table.

If you like fingers curled is better cpen. If you want extended: jpen.

jpen can be played with soft rubbers (also with hard). cpen with soft is IMHO not easy.

As in cpen you are more close, round blade is better for block (more margin of error). On jpen you are a bit far and you have time to touch with the center of the blade (square is good).

 

[blahness]

From the other side, I fear the Jpen TPB a lot more than Cpen.

 

[SFF_lib]

TPB is just fun to use and I wonder if it is better for traditional penholders to play CPEN or JPEN. I've seen CPEN use it more and more reliably (Toshio Tasaki, Kaii Yoshida, etc), and JPEN players mostly use the push and pivot to forehand (Ryu Seung Min, Chiang Peng Lung, Lee Jung Woo, etc). So I wonder if it is because JPEN is a lot more awkward (explains why they are forehand mains except Cazuo Matsumoto) or is it just not something that is popular/tried out yet?

It really depends on your playstyle.

Cpen is more versatile. In rallies you can do slow spin or drive, chop etc

Jpen is a attack machine, less versatile. Jpen is more powerful, much better for attack.

In TPB, Jpen is fast.

With Cpen, you can block, push or even chop block. This is much harder with Jpen

 

[Marc!_]

Thanks a load for the replies!

 

[suds79]

I've played with both. While I can do a RPB backhand, I much prefer TPB for various reasons.

So which one to play? I've played plenty with both. I'm convinced Cpen is better choice and the reason is simple. You have more options on your backhand with Cpen vs Jpen. Even if you're a TPB type player. With Cpen you can, and should, put some type of pips or anti on that RPB. You'll be amazed how useful of a tool that will serve you in your matches from time to time. Want to play an entire match and never use that RPB side much like a standard Jpener would? Fine. You can. if you're a TPB player you're probably use to that. But it's there as an option.

Get pulled out to your far forehand in a rally and you loop it, they block to the open side. You're boned with Jpen.

Example: A match from a high level Jpen player I like to follow because i'm also left handed. This guy is a very skilled player.
The point at 1:25 in this video

Now same situation with Cpen namely with say a long pips on on there. Pulled to the far FH, next ball? RPB chop to buy your self time to reset and get back in the point. So much easier.

Ever ran into a player you don't know at say a tournament and their serve is giving you fits? Sure if you played them in a few matches you'd eventually get a feel for it but this is a tournament. You have 3 games or so. You can't really afford to forfeit 1 or 2 of them while you figure it out. - RPB Long pips can be an easy savior while also possibly frustrating them as they have to face their own serve. Then when you mix in a return of standard TPB with inverted every once in a while, it'll truly keep them off-balance.

Ever faced a shakehander with a good backhand and they're BH driving at you while you TPB block and they just naturally are the ones in the rally with more speed & spin? Feel like they're the hammer and you're the nail? Mix in a close to the table RPB chock block (it's rather easy). Change the pace & spin. You don't have to play their game.

If you're a TPB player, you owe it to yourself to try this setup at least once in your life. You could become a twiddling player and really open up options but for me personally, that's too much different muscle memory to learn and I prefer to just keep the weird rubber on the RPB only pulling it out when I want to.

I'm also of the opinion that if one absolutely insists on Jpen (because there are elements I like too. Namely the power they provide), then I'd favor one of those two sided Jpens for say an OX LPs on the back side where it's the same concept and you still get all the available options I'm talking about.

Now having made my case, I'll feature another player here I like to watch for strategic pointers in regards to playing with reversing rubber. Now he's a shakehander and very good but I'm telling you if you're a Cpen player with a LPs or anti on the backhand side, you can play the exact same way this guy does (when he gets a chance to step around a play an attacking FH he does) but with the option to even hit with the inverted TPB where as this player can't. If it's going to his BH, he's for sure using the anti. You as a penholder still get to choose. The options in style of play of what suits you feel endless. RPB subtle chop block at the table is quite easy.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I've played with both. While I can do a RPB backhand, I much prefer TPB for various reasons.

So which one to play? I've played plenty with both. I'm convinced Cpen is better choice and the reason is simple. You have more options on your backhand with Cpen vs Jpen. Even if you're a TPB type player. With Cpen you can, and should, put some type of pips or anti on that RPB. You'll be amazed how useful of a tool that will serve you in your matches from time to time. Want to play an entire match and never use that RPB side much like a standard Jpener would? Fine. You can. if you're a TPB player you're probably use to that. But it's there as an option.

Get pulled out to your far forehand in a rally and you loop it, they block to the open side. You're boned with Jpen.

Example: A match from a high level Jpen player I like to follow because i'm also left handed. This guy is a very skilled player.
The point at 1:25 in this video

Now same situation with Cpen namely with say a long pips on on there. Pulled to the far FH, next ball? RPB chop to buy your self time to reset and get back in the point. So much easier.

I can only do RPB backhand.
and you and @SFF_lib is right, there is just way more you can do with Cpen.

And in your video, after lob or chop after been drag in to the wide forehand, one can also counter topspin when the opportunity is there. It is too difficult to change from defense to attack away from the table with a TPB.

 

[Lando]

There is power in TPB if you know what to do. The strength of tpb is placement, and that no spin tpb punch that many are not used since most people are shakehand or rpb.
Cazuo has a great video on it, and this crazy japanese dude.

 

[PenHoldSandro]

I don't have much of an opinion because compared to these guys I'm practically a newcomer, BUT I will say Jpen is a LOT more comfortable with punching than Cpen. This is most likely the hook, adding stability.

As for rubbers, Jpen is better with softer, tensioned rubbers, while Cpen is for Hard, Chinese rubbers.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

There is power in TPB if you know what to do. The strength of tpb is placement, and that no spin tpb punch that many are not used since most people are shakehand or rpb.
Cazuo has a great video on it, and this crazy japanese dude.

tpb punch was more deadly in 38mm era, it is no longer a threat in 40+ era.
i still remember watching Chiang Peng Lung, with his speed glue powered punch. He didn't need a backhand shot as the ball was as fast as his forehand.

 

[greenbeanmachine]

There is power in TPB if you know what to do. The strength of tpb is placement, and that no spin tpb punch that many are not used since most people are shakehand or rpb.
Cazuo has a great video on it, and this crazy japanese dude.

Wow, I was not looking closely and it looked like this guy was playing rpb. Really incredible power and stroke.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Wow, I was not looking closely and it looked like this guy was playing rpb. Really incredible power and stroke.

yep,
I played with players who can play a tpb top spin stroke as seen in the video. It is very smooth indeed. Cpen can also do it.
The threat is not as big as rpb or shakehand bh topspin though.
and tpb doesn't have bh flick service return, which was also not common back in the days where jpen was more popular.

 

[Lando]

yep,
I played with players who can play a tpb top spin stroke as seen in the video. It is very smooth indeed. Cpen can also do it.
The threat is not as big as rpb or shakehand bh topspin though.
and tpb doesn't have bh flick service return, which was also not common back in the days where jpen was more popular.

There is a tpb flick over the table for jppen, and probably cpen as well.
There is an instructional on it with one of Cazuo's student demonstrating it. It's not as powerful as a shakehand flick but it still works. I tried finding the video without success lol. Will keep an eye out for it and post it here if I ever find it.

Here is another video of a different way to tpb with cpen

 

[Der_Echte]

Double sided J-Pen will NEVER die. Ask Virginia player Wade Sun.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

There is a tpb flick over the table for jppen, and probably cpen as well.

yep
I seen it plenty of times before (Im from Taiwan, and Taiwan had a lot of jpen pros)
Again, not so good in 40+ era

 

[PenHoldSandro]

There is a tpb flick over the table for jppen, and probably cpen as well.
There is an instructional on it with one of Cazuo's student demonstrating it. It's not as powerful as a shakehand flick but it still works. I tried finding the video without success lol. Will keep an eye out for it and post it here if I ever find it.

Might it be this one?