Is D09c bad for brush-looping?

[TampaBayTableTennis]

ive had similar feelings with 09c, pretty unique rubber so just needs more time and commitment to get a good hold of imo. i plan to go back to it someday but rakza z is easier for me to control overall. struggled to play in between type balls with 09c in matches (both responding to and making my own), it was a little bit all or nothing

 

[Zeen]

maybe you are just used to very high throw rubbers.
When I changed my blade from all wood to carbon, the low combined throw angle of the blade and of D09c forced me to change to high throw rubber.

 

[NetProphet]

ok, maybe. I need to practice more with D09c to find the correct technique. I personally feel like I am brushing the ball too much and that is somehow incompatible.

The rubber seems to do better when I hit through the ball more.

That's because you are activating the sponge more (when hitting through it) so yes, you are right, there is a different technique that is better suited to Chinese style rubbers and European style (now hybrid) rubbers. My feeling is it's the lack of tack and lack of 'cheap' or easy spin that demands the sponge engagement. It might not be just this but clearly if you want to persist with D09c then you gotta alter your technique and approach with absolutely everything you use the rubber for, touch play, defence, blocks, serves...
Given the cost of it (a complete waste of money in my book) why do you want to change to it?
I've been told by coaches hundreds of times, at the amateur level, it's NEVER the gear that's the issue but always the technique.
Given your knowledge of the Chinese rubbers and all the reviews etc, is there not a rubber that already gives you what you need?
But the question in the title of this thread, 'is D09c bad for brush looping?', I think you already know the answer to that 😉

Be interested in an update to see how you find it now 👍

 

[Cadoia]

ok. So it sounds like I'm not just imagining things with this rubber.

I will do a few more day of practicing with more hitting through

09c is NOT an easy rubber to use despite what some players will tell you. Its most likely the hardest rubber I tried so far of them all if you wish to play it right to its full potential. And yes the brush loop was also the hardest part for me to get used to with it.(still is) And on "lazy" days this is where it hurts me the most as I just can't get away with not playing the sponge and only the top sheet. The chinese rubbers will let you do that and it gives you such confidence.
I dont think 09c is for everyone. Its just different.
For ME, its a great rubber because it teaches me things I need to learn to be better at. My play has improved a lot since using it. But it cost me a lot of sweat and lost points.
I know you use many blades and rubbers and this might be an issue. Try force your self to only use 09c. resist shifting around for at least 2 months. Engage the sponge. play more aggressive. Take chances. use the whole body is every shot especially your legs. go deep.
Also I know you got some amazing inner carbon blades. I would put it on one of those.

 

[greenbeanmachine]

Anybody else have experience with D09c?

Yes, thank you so much for sharing this experience -- I also found D09c to be bad for brush-looping. I feel like I have been going insane with everyone talking about how D09c is the best rubber in existence.

With Chinese rubber, the throw angle is pretty low, so you can do a brush loop with an open racket, and lift the ball with the tackiness (instead of relying on high throw angle to get it over the net).

I think the reason for the bad brush-looping with D09c is because D09c has an incredibly high throw angle. When you add tackiness to a high throw angle, you need to close the racket pretty extremely in order to get a good brush-loop. I didn't like this feature on either FH or BH, but on BH I found it more manageable. On BH you can kind of "press" the racket down on top of the ball whereas on FH this is harder to do.

In addition, D09c has pretty low contact time. It can create a lot of spin in a short contact time, but it doesn't give you time to create the trajectory of the ball, in the same way you can do with Chinese rubbers.

FWIW I found Tenergy 05 Hard to be much more comfortable to play with than D09c -- especially for brush-looping. T05Hard is an ideal hybrid-style rubber imo.

 

[OSA]

Actually, one tip i can give: you need to full relaxed state before you hitting ball with 09c. if you can manage the relaxation timing in each shot, especially in rally, i think ball stays on the rubber for while you feel that. The rubber holds the ball. you can move the blade and body together with great control. Relax until the contact then explode on just contact the feeling is just amazing for my point of view.

However mastering the relaxation requires a lot practice for muscle memory especially in matches (i am also not mastered at all). You can understand the relaxtion importance if you look Ma long face in matches. I have never seen another player relax like Ma Long. Each and every shot look at his face completely calm, relaxed , while hitting his face emotion changes with the explosive shot than immediately recover is relax state.

 

[Cadoia]

09c is NOT an easy rubber to use despite what some players will tell you. Its most likely the hardest rubber I tried so far of them all if you wish to play it right to its full potential. And yes the brush loop was also the hardest part for me to get used to with it.(still is) And on "lazy" days this is where it hurts me the most as I just can't get away with not playing the sponge and only the top sheet. The chinese rubbers will let you do that and it gives you such confidence.
I dont think 09c is for everyone. Its just different.
For ME, its a great rubber because it teaches me things I need to learn to be better at. My play has improved a lot since using it. But it cost me a lot of sweat and lost points.
I know you use many blades and rubbers and this might be an issue. Try force your self to only use 09c. resist shifting around for at least 2 months. Engage the sponge. play more aggressive. Take chances. use the whole body is every shot especially your legs. go deep.
Also I know you got some amazing inner carbon blades. I would put it on one of those.

I know Dimi is using 09c on either FH or BH. seems to be able to do brush strokes with it:

 

[greenbeanmachine]

I know Dimi is using 09c on either FH or BH. seems to be able to do brush strokes with it:

Dima is good enough to do brush strokes with anything though. The question is whether it's easy or hard to do brush strokes. Referencing a professional isn't making the case that it's easy, and it isn't refuting the case that it's hard.

Also for the record he uses D09c on forehand and D05 on backhand.

 

[Kopp]

..

Anybody else have experience with D09c? Is it known to be a bad fit for brush-looping?

I tried, it's not a bad fit for brush-looping. But it's very bad for my wallet!

LOL

 

[SleepyMaster]

The rubber is only a tool and of course you can to brush loop it with09c but its all in your hands and technique. A lot also matter in terms of personal preference in hardness and feeling of the rubber itself

 

[Cadoia]

Dima is good enough to do brush strokes with anything though. The question is whether it's easy or hard to do brush strokes. Referencing a professional isn't making the case that it's easy, and it isn't refuting the case that it's hard.

Also for the record he uses D09c on forehand and D05 on backhand.

Thats true.

 

[Hurricane AON]

Just try Xuperman rubber!!

 

[NextLevel]

Dima is good enough to do brush strokes with anything though. The question is whether it's easy or hard to do brush strokes. Referencing a professional isn't making the case that it's easy, and it isn't refuting the case that it's hard.

Also for the record he uses D09c on forehand and D05 on backhand.

He has used 09c on both sides multiple times and currently does. The German team tends to get to consensus on these things.

 

[NextLevel]

To be honest the whole brush looping question confuses me. I just try to use a rubber until it works. How it works is often a mystery to me though I sometimes like to think I know. The one thing is that D09c is definitely more bouncy than Hurricane and most Chinese rubbers and even most ESN hybrids. Spring sponge is still spring sponge.

 

[greenbeanmachine]

All of these guys at TT11 tested D09c and thought it was ass:

 

[TensorBackhand]

All of these guys at TT11 thought D09c was ass:

lol. it's true