ITTF/WTT problems reported from players

[Tony's Table Tennis]

How did it get overbooked in the first place? That's the problem, right?

a lot of things in this thread has no humanely explainable answers
that is why players are loosing patient

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Saudi Smash
2024/05/07
Incident occurred when players returned to the hotel and was told that they need to check out, as the hotel is overbooked and they can't stay the night (yes, after a day of table tennis competition, they were forced to check out).

after waiting in the lobby for a while (and closing on to homelessness), they were then moved to another hotel.
very poor administration to allow something ridiculous like this from happening.

When one enters for these events, the costs of hotel was paid upfront already. It isn't cheap and you would expect top level players not having these kind of problems

WTT/Jeddah Marriott, not cool!

new room/different hotel (downgraded, but at least one can shower and sleep)
Players don't really moan about it, but if they were to all moan, I would be all too busy posting sad events....
some times we just want "normal" customer service.... nothing special really

View attachment 29687

so the excuse from WTT was that the player booked hotel until the 7th
and then they extended it to the 10th.
had they booked 1 go, this wasn't going to happen apparently.

however, WTT forgot to inform the player that, 8~10th requires to be moved to another hotel
there was zero communication and zero reminder that check out was due on the 7th
there was no information on which hotel to check back in, up until the players was sitting in the lobby and had to chase WTT for solutions.

WTT chose to handle hotel arrangements at a premium rate, but this was a "slip up" by someone within WTT,
just one of many irritations and inconvenience players face

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

can call it silly on players part or WTT part, it shouldn't have happened if there was proper planning in place.

WTT Argentina ends on 2 June (finals on this day)
WTT Croatia starts on 3 June (qualifications start on this day, so no time for traveling)

if you don't play on the last day of the former, and 1st day of the latter, there is a 2 day gap.
But there is a problem when you register for both - and accepted by WTT, but then you reach the final of the former and then you have been scheduled to play on the 2nd day of the latter.

Cheng Hsien-Tzu was one of the players who had to forfeit her doubles match to catch the plane to be able to land on the 1st day, rest that evening and play qualifications for singles on the 2nd day and avoid being fined and world ranking point penalties by WTT for not pitching.
Huang Yi-Hua stayed to play the singles final, end up 2nd place and will test her fate as she is playing on day 2 too.

Cheng had 30 mins to make the call and leave for the airport to continue a 3 flight journey.
she had to gamble to buy her ticket at the airport successfully... any delays getting to the airport or no tickets available would result in her not making Croatia in time.....
How is that for pressure not relating to playing table tennis?

so Croatia ends on 9 June, with WTT Slovenia (Star contender) starting on 11 June (yes, 10 June gap for travel)

You won't hear it often as not every player plays on the last day and the first day on back to back tournaments.
But not often does not equate to impossible and WTT is basically planning a very tight schedule back to back on gambling that it won't happen often and if it does, well, who cares.

I cannot find any ruling or regulation on how tournaments are scheduled..... and if players have any rights to how scheduling works, yet they are the ones that need to take part, and could be fined or penalized.

I personally think it is an awkward situation that could be prevented if players health and right are places as first choice by WTT, over commericial incomes for the business.

the 2 players in question both have funding to travel (not a penny was self funded). If they had to self fund, the whole trip would be burning cash - despite both finishing in the finals.

Cheng sacrifice a chance to half the total doubles prize money of $1000 (yes, she will get $500 if they won.... lol)
while Huang stayed on to fight for the chance of $5000 price money. She did end with half as 2nd place with $2500, while Cheng got half of the $800 for second place in doubles.

Mendoza is 1000km from Buenos Aires too.
with no spectators in the stands and extra traveling burden for the players.
Then from Buenos Aires to Zagreb is a good 16h to 27h trip.

Cheng said with Mendoza, she had to do 4 flights....

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

A number of these tournaments are running with just 4 tables. It seems like they would be able to reduce the number of days by 1 or 2 by using 8 tables, thus increasing the gap between tournaments.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

A number of these tournaments are running with just 4 tables. It seems like they would be able to reduce the number of days by 1 or 2 by using 8 tables, thus increasing the gap between tournaments.

I missed the old tours, with 1 or 2 center tables, and 4 to 8 smaller tables surround it on both sides.
then you have a big stadium where every seat can see every table.

now, they choose to closed off certain parts of the stadium, so only sections are visible from the stands and you need to move seats to see other tables/areas

the reduction in tables, increase in number of days, more costly for spectators to buy many seats in different sections and the inconvenience of moving around to enjoy being a spectator, just doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[backspacer]

I hope after Paris players speak out against the tight schedule and conflicting interests. While I'm happy we have more tournaments now than in the beginning of WTT where it was restricted due to COVID it's clear it's too much. Even I as a viewer am tired.

 

[dingyibvs]

can call it silly on players part or WTT part, it shouldn't have happened if there was proper planning in place.

WTT Argentina ends on 2 June (finals on this day)
WTT Croatia starts on 3 June (qualifications start on this day, so no time for traveling)

if you don't play on the last day of the former, and 1st day of the latter, there is a 2 day gap.
But there is a problem when you register for both - and accepted by WTT, but then you reach the final of the former and then you have been scheduled to play on the 2nd day of the latter.

Cheng Hsien-Tzu was one of the players who had to forfeit her doubles match to catch the plane to be able to land on the 1st day, rest that evening and play qualifications for singles on the 2nd day and avoid being fined and world ranking point penalties by WTT for not pitching.
Huang Yi-Hua stayed to play the singles final, end up 2nd place and will test her fate as she is playing on day 2 too.

Cheng had 30 mins to make the call and leave for the airport to continue a 3 flight journey.
she had to gamble to buy her ticket at the airport successfully... any delays getting to the airport or no tickets available would result in her not making Croatia in time.....
How is that for pressure not relating to playing table tennis?

so Croatia ends on 9 June, with WTT Slovenia (Star contender) starting on 11 June (yes, 10 June gap for travel)

You won't hear it often as not every player plays on the last day and the first day on back to back tournaments.
But not often does not equate to impossible and WTT is basically planning a very tight schedule back to back on gambling that it won't happen often and if it does, well, who cares.

I cannot find any ruling or regulation on how tournaments are scheduled..... and if players have any rights to how scheduling works, yet they are the ones that need to take part, and could be fined or penalized.

I personally think it is an awkward situation that could be prevented if players health and right are places as first choice by WTT, over commericial incomes for the business.

the 2 players in question both have funding to travel (not a penny was self funded). If they had to self fund, the whole trip would be burning cash - despite both finishing in the finals.

Cheng sacrifice a chance to half the total doubles prize money of $1000 (yes, she will get $500 if they won.... lol)
while Huang stayed on to fight for the chance of $5000 price money. She did end with half as 2nd place with $2500, while Cheng got half of the $800 for second place in doubles.

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Mendoza is 1000km from Buenos Aires too.
with no spectators in the stands and extra traveling burden for the players.
Then from Buenos Aires to Zagreb is a good 16h to 27h trip.

Cheng said with Mendoza, she had to do 4 flights....

It's obviously the player's fault. There are sometimes 2 tournaments running at the same time, would it be WTT's fault if a player booked herself for both tournaments? If say I signed up for a tournament in the morning in LA, then another one in NY in the afternoon, is it USATT's fault if I can't make it to both?

Cheng needs to plan her tournament schedule better IMO.

 

[NetProphet]

It's obviously the player's fault. There are sometimes 2 tournaments running at the same time, would it be WTT's fault if a player booked herself for both tournaments? If say I signed up for a tournament in the morning in LA, then another one in NY in the afternoon, is it USATT's fault if I can't make it to both?

Cheng needs to plan her tournament schedule better IMO.

And if they're mandatory tournaments???
But OK I do see your point.
But are you missing the point that this ridiculous scheduling doesn't happen in other pro sports. Why is that?
Then why does TT have to look so foolish, amateur and disorganised in its own tournament scheduling that these problems are possible.
This should not be overlooked because it's only the top of the iceberg with WTT and the problems run far far deeper.
Basically it's run by fossils with no imagination or ambition to create something amazing. They do what they want and love to remain anonymous and insulated from consequences of the mess they are presiding over.
Table tennis is a FANTASTIC game.
It and it's best players deserve much much better.

 

[dingyibvs]

And if they're mandatory tournaments???
But OK I do see your point.
But are you missing the point that this ridiculous scheduling doesn't happen in other pro sports. Why is that?
Then why does TT have to look so foolish, amateur and disorganised in its own tournament scheduling that these problems are possible.
This should not be overlooked because it's only the top of the iceberg with WTT and the problems run far far deeper.
Basically it's run by fossils with no imagination or ambition to create something amazing. They do what they want and love to remain anonymous and insulated from consequences of the mess they are presiding over.
Table tennis is a FANTASTIC game.
It and it's best players deserve much much better.

WTT has many, many problems, but this isn't one of them. They're not mandatory tournaments, so I don't know why you even bring up that. If they're mandatory tournaments then certainly it would be a legitimate complaint. Having more tournaments spread around the world allows more players to participate in them, and some are bound to run into each other so players will have to choose.

And what do you mean it doesn't happen in other pro sports? It happens all the time in other pro sports with world wide tournaments. Just looking at the next couple of months in golf the Kentucky championships is happening at the same time as the Scottish Open in July. In Chess the Vegas festival ends 1 day before the Madrid festival in June, while the US nationals will occur at the same time. In soccer and basketball players often have to choose between their pro team and national team obligations.

I agree that WTT is run by a bunch of incompetent fools, but you need to evaluate each of their failings objectively and not make their foolishness bias you into thinking every trouble is caused by them. That hotel fiasco @Tony's Table Tennis brought up is completely on WTT, for example, and moving tournament dates with short notice as they often do is simply unacceptable. That's just 2 of their most recent innumerable failings. Booking yourself for 2 back-to-back tournaments that you can't make it to in time, however, is your own mistake.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

And if they're mandatory tournaments???

automatic entries goes all the way the qualifiers... it is not just the seeds.
One needs to opt out with a valid excuse.....

Its olympic qualifications (teams) for some, so they want to take part in as much as their can and can only take it on the chin on some ridiculous scheduling ever seen in many pros professional career and hope they don't break down while chasing their olympic dream. (if there are no olympics this year, I am sure such craziness would not happen)

But WTT has accepted Cheng and Huang to take part in both tournaments.... so will WTT now penalize them for no show due to not able to move from point A to point B in the time provided by WTT?
If WTT allows back to back entries, surely it must be doable, right?
or do they need to loose in earlier rounds to make the next tournament on time? what exactly is the priority?

We have seen few incidents that indicate players are loosing, to get out of the tournament early... more will come for sure in the future.

But OK I do see your point.
But are you missing the point that this ridiculous scheduling doesn't happen in other pro sports. Why is that?
Then why does TT have to look so foolish, amateur and disorganised in its own tournament scheduling that these problems are possible.

You are right, look at Croatia ending on 9 June and then Slovenia starts on 11 June. ONE day gap in between tournaments for all to move from A to B (not just players.....). So what if flight delay or unable to travel for 3 days due to whether? then you have no tournament in Slovenia?

Maybe WTT fans/management will argue, it is only 140km driving distance, well.... Brazil to Argentina was 26 May ending and 27 May starting, a distance of 2750km..... what if flights gets cancelled?

So much unnecessary stress for players to handle that we don't get to see - HENCE, the reason of this thread.

It is the same continent...but still, it looks ridiculous on paper where players are moving from one tournament to another with 1 to 2 days gap in between at best, back to back, and some up to 3 to 4 back to backs. Same players, different venue, different country, different continent, same players, same event staff?...

This should not be overlooked because it's only the top of the iceberg with WTT and the problems run far far deeper.
Basically it's run by fossils with no imagination or ambition to create something amazing. They do what they want and love to remain anonymous and insulated from consequences of the mess they are presiding over.
Table tennis is a FANTASTIC game.
It and it's best players deserve much much better.

The players need to be looked after....as well as every contributor to the tournaments...
Even WTT event crew is overloaded, just look at the quality drop when scheduling overloading has been going on for the past 4 months (ie, youtube team)

What is there to gain with schedule overloading?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Huang Yi-Hua stayed to play the singles final, end up 2nd place and will test her fate as she is playing on day 2 too.

So guess what happened

Huang was supposed to play on the 2nd day (basically 6 hours from now of me typing this post).

but... schedule changed to day 1, and she is out

So when you think you have 2 days to get to your next match....well, maybe not.

 

[dingyibvs]

That's just wrong.

a. WTT Grand Smash • Singles Main Draw/Qualifying: Five (5) weeks prior the main event start. Players in singles sub-events shall be added automatically to the entry list by WTT based on the ITTF TTWR published at the entry deadline. The participation of players is mandatory. • Doubles & Mixed doubles: Four (4) weeks prior the main event start. Both players of a pair (or their designated authority) must enter and confirm their participation as a pair for doubles and/or mixed doubles events via the OES before the doubles' entry deadline.

b. WTT Finals The players and the pairs who participate in the WTT Finals will be selected based on the respective ITTF TTWR list published after the end of the last event before the WTT Finals or where WTT determines the need to implement a cut-off date due to extenuating circumstances. The participation of players/pairs is mandatory.

These are the only 2 types of events in the WTT handbook where players are automatically entered into the event, and only the WTT finals is mandatory. None of the other events state these things and are entirely voluntary. That players like Cheng and Huang are trying to get last minute points for Olympics is their problem, not WTT's. If I elect to work a 24-hour shift to pay for my new W968 but I can't manage to stay awake for that long, that's my problem, not my job's problem.

 

[zeio]

It's likely Huang Yi-Hua decided not to play instead.

https://wttwebcmsprod.blob.core.windows.net/technicaldocuments/WTT Series & Feeder Handbook 2024.pdf

2.15 Qualifying Entry list
All players playing in Qualifying, including players who are on site and on the Wait list, must confirm their
attendance (“Qualifying Sign-in”) onsite no later than one (1) hour prior to the commencement of the
Qualifying draw (“Qualifying Sign-Deadline”) in order to be eligible to participate in Qualifying in case of
late withdrawals. If a player fails to sign-in before the deadline he/she will be removed from the Qualifying
and a penalty fee will be applied which shall be doubled in the case the player was seeded for the Qualifying
as per the Player Code of Conduct (4.1.5 Qualifying No-Show).

For 2024 (Phase 1):
The above players will be responsible for coming into a designated place into the venue and signing their
name into the alphabetical list that the WTT Event Supervisor will prepare for that purpose.
• Where a player cannot be onsite because he/she is playing in another event then the player can
confirm with the WTT Event Supervisor at his/her current event that he/she will not play in
Qualifying at his/her next event and let that WTT Event Supervisor know. Otherwise, the player will
inform the WTT Event Supervisor of the event directly that he/she is not going to play (ex. A player
is currently playing in Event 1 and cannot participate in Event 2 that is running at the same time.
Either he/she informs the WTT Event Supervisor of Event 1 that he/she is not going to participate in
Event 2, or he/she contacts by email / call the WTT Event Supervisor of Event 2 that he/she is not
going to participate in Event 2).
• Where a player is not onsite because he/she is travelling to the event or intending to travel to the
event the day of his/her Qualifying match – he/she will be able to email / call the WTT Event
Supervisor to re-confirm their entry by the Qualifying onsite sign-in deadline.

For 2025 and onwards (Phase 2):
The players will be able to scan the event specific QR code once they are onsite and using their own account
and geo app location to confirm they are at the venue. Players who will fail to sign-in on site will be removed
from the Qualifying list. In both phases if a player withdraws after the “Qualifying Sign-in” deadline and it is
proven he/she signed in but fails to appear, WTT will treat this as a major offence as under the Player Code
of Conduct.

 

[zeio]

As posted during Saudi Smash 2024, only WTT GS main draw, WTT F, and WTT CS are mandatory events, and each player is entitled to 2 free withdrawals per year from ITTF events, and WTT GS qualifying draw, WTT SCT, CT and FEE events.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/saudi-smash-2024.33519/post-456393

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/upl...Tennis-World-Ranking-Regulations-20240304.pdf

4. PLAYER CODE OF CONDUCT
4.1 Entry/Withdrawal Offences
4.1.1 Withdrawal - Singles:

...

c) Players are entitled to two (2) free withdrawals from Main Draw and Qualifying per year at WTT
Star Contender, WTT Contender and WTT Feeder Series, and from Qualifying in Grand Smash
without financial penalty and only when requested by the Player or Member Association through the
Online Entries System at the time of the cancellation or by email to [email protected]
and the assigned Event Supervisor before the Event ends. For the third and any subsequent
withdrawal the below penalties shall be applied and payable to WTT.

...

4.1.2 Late Withdrawal – Singles:

...

e) The free withdrawal as per 4.1.1c is not applied on late withdrawals and the player shall pay the
late cancellation fee.

...

4.1.3 Withdrawal & Late Withdrawal – Doubles & Mixed Doubles:

...

g) Pairs are entitled to two (2) free withdrawals from Main Draw and Qualifying per year at WTT
Star Contender, WTT Contender and WTT Feeder Series events without financial penalty and only
when requested by the Pair or the Member Association(s) through the Online Entries System at the
time of the cancellation or by email to [email protected] and Event Supervisor before
the Event ends.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

 

[NextLevel]

View attachment 30167

Would be interesting to hear the logic but as I said many times, that penalty should never have been his, it should have been Nigeria's for failure to send enough players to field a team.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Would be interesting to hear the logic but as I said many times, that penalty should never have been his, it should have been Nigeria's for failure to send enough players to field a team.

I agree
it just didn't make sense how ITTF can punish one player of a team, where the team should be a "unit"
and then that victim need to fight to clear his/her name him/herself.

Why have teams if it is all technically, individual events... lol

 

[zeio]

Keep in mind this wouldn't have happened had the players not whined about team events carrying no points. Now that points are allocated, players are accountable for any consequences. With rights come responsibilities.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...ld-cup-2023-chengdu-12-4-10.31810/post-432525

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Keep in mind this wouldn't have happened had the players not whined about team events carrying no points. Now that points are allocated, players are accountable for any consequences. With rights come responsibilities.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...ld-cup-2023-chengdu-12-4-10.31810/post-432525

this is such rubbish comparison

points was there in the first place and points was removed from teams. you make it sound like you a noob and only know of recent "point being awarded only now"? lol.

So, even if that is so, how can it be that, because there is now points, now there is consequences for players?
you are blaming Aruna for Nigeria TT federation being poor and can't field player no 4 and 5?
forcing Aruna to WO despite not being there?
Aruna paid for himself to go to the teams event too. Is it Aruna's fault for not paying for no 4 and no 5?

If there was a no 4 and no 5 there, do you think Aruna will been penalized?

for you zeio, to say something like this, is a bit.... crazy.
might think you had a bit too much to drink.
you should raise your standards again then think Aruna is at fault for Nigeria having a WO in teams.... ITTF already answers that there is no merit in the penalty and it will just look silly for you to find "points", or other really weak arguments to justify Aruna is the culprit.

Its a teams event. Team should be punished - just like the team's world ranking (points hahaha) it gets.
the points for players is useless, for teams, it is at least meaningful (ie just pitching, you get points lol)