Just curious how many Penholders are on TTD?

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I'd like to learn different types of pushes if such a thing exists. Thinking, backspin light, backspin heavy, maybe side/back, dead? IDK.

What about you guys? Any of you use this as a common tactic or have this shot in your bag?

also you can throw in a sidespin push .. again helps if you have a slower / dead er tenergy or if you use the upper part of the rubber ...

In short game, I often use this sidespin push. Contacting the ball on the left side (I'm a left-handed player so right side for right-handed player) and barely under the ball. Just like the short push you mention, it takes quite some touch, mainly to make sure your push does not go too high, but if it's well done, it often gives a ball that comes back high *and* on your forehand side. I like mixing this during regular pushes, and it's surprisingly effective.
 
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i just saw a Xuxin photo on a IG and noticed what he got a dhs blade. anyone know something about that? anyway cant wait to see hows he performing now. if he goes koto/zl combo he should be a beast!
 
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Had a good hit session over lunch with my club mate today.

Was trying a dead, float (almost flick like) variation today vs serve. Not the best success. So maybe scrap that. I did however have success in trying to mix up my light touch the ball (normal push) to jab agressively under the ball (heavy push). That was really nice. Got him to put the ball into the net a few times with that approach.

Dang it after reading PierreAd's post just now, that was something I should have tried as an alternative. A sidepsin push for variation. I'll do that next time.

My club mate has a pretty solid backhand serve that he mixes up between heavy side/back & heavy side/top. He's right handed and I'm left handed. When he does this serve, I would say he stands middle of the table to sometimes his back corner opening up for a forehand on 3rd ball. He often serves this ball to my TPB. I've experimented with RPB flip with only mimimal success and have found that I can push this ball if it's backspin or even topspin as long as I push late in the ball's decent.

But not today.

Today I took the approach that anything to my FH that's off the table I'm going to soft loop and boy did that work. I even gambled a little and would often turn the corner as he's serving to loop with my FH when he's thinking I'll have to play that return of serve with my BH. The key was to maybe show one spot pre serve. "Hey I'm standing middle of the table! My backhand is wide open" to moving during the ball's decent. This starts an interesting mind game that worked out well. While it's risky, I can think of serveral times in the past where I've received serve really well when I take them mostly on my FH. Must just come easier to me IDK
 
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i just saw a Xuxin photo on a IG and noticed what he got a dhs blade. anyone know something about that? anyway cant wait to see hows he performing now. if he goes koto/zl combo he should be a beast!
I have been wondering for years why he's still using a wooden blade given his style is offensive.

Can you upload a snapshot of his IG? I am really excited to see.

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@suds79. About the push variation.

(Firstly I agree with PierreAd that throwing in sidespin pushes here and there is often effective. It can be quite deceptive as to whether you're adding underspin or topspin to the sidespin... a bit like on serves, you can play with slight racket angle changes, or timing and/or point of contact.)

The deal is to make it clear that you can produce an aggressive, heavy backspin push. Then if you can generate a no-spin push that looks similar (or even just a 'normal' push!), you'll make the opponent miss a lot more (net/out), give you balls that are easier to kill (ball pops up) or easier to counter (opponent attacks more cautiously).

One of the many ways to do the heavy spin/no spin variation is as follows. Use a quick wrist motion upon contacting the ball, so that the blade face ends up slightly more open (almost horizontal) at the end of the action. If you do it right as you contact the ball (or very slightly afterwards), you should get very good spin. Overall the motion looks forward and down, with a bit of a tilt of the wrist in the middle.

Now if you change the timing so that you tilt the wrist just before contact, you'll end up giving a gentle hop/push to the ball instead of brushing it, which will greatly decrease the underspin or give light no-spin/topspin. You can still fake the forward/downward followthrough.

Make sure your pushes are generally aggressive and well-placed (corners, middle/elbow or wide). Start with deep spinny pushes and switch to no-spin as a variation.

There are variants, technically the trick simply involves going with a forward and down motion, starting with the blade face open but more vertical and ending up with the blade face more horizontal. The bat is overall going down, hence producing backspin (assuming you hit the back hemisphere of the ball as normal); except at the part of the blade closest to the table/furthest from the ceiling, which is moving upwards at some point while you are changing the blade angle. So the resulting spin depends on the timing and on the point of contact on the blade.

Again, there are other ways to do it as long as you can create a heavy backspin ball. You could also swipe under the ball and use some lateral wrist rotation to alter the spin. Depending on the position of your body with respect to the table you can add a lot of side-spin or a lot of underspin. Doing a simple cut under the ball but changing the blade angle by adjusting your grip beforehand can also work. Another simple thing given enough time is to deliberately vary longer, more ample strokes or shorter compact ones (especially with the forehand where you've got more room), which is in point of fact fairly unrelated to the spin you generate but can always get the opponent thinking :p Same with stomping on the floor :3

edit. Of course you can also play with depth and height of your pushes to throw off the opponent's timing a bit. If you find it tough to keep your less spinny pushes low, you can always throw in a slightly higher, very spinny push once in a while. You just need to keep the opponent guessing.
 
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definitely a dhs blade
 
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Yup the handle design gives it away. The handle colour is darker than W968 (i.e. Long V special version). So it could be the new N301 - DHS 656 with added inner acrylate carbon layers.

It makes sense inner acrylate carbon works well for loopers.



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This is a good video that summarizes the essential techniques of TPB. He demonstrates three techniques:

1- power push
2- power push + side slice (Ma Lin special)
3- suction block + power push.

For (3), suction block is for blocking slow spinny loop whereas power push is for power loop.

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Nice pics there of XX. Def using a DHS blade.

Seems like a lot of pros are going to something with carbon for what I can only assume is the extra speed to counter the plastic ball.

So there's a part of me that thinks, maybe i should switch out from my clipper wood to something carbon. But at the same time I don't really feel I need more speed to win. While in the pros you probably do, it's a different game on the intermediate level. Seems to me that the player who can play aggressively and make fewer errors largely wins

So maybe I shouldn't go to carbon. I don't know. Do any of you ever think about that dynamic?

I do however sometimes wonder if I should look for a 5 ply blade vs my 7 ply clipper wood which I originally got for my short pip play as the blade is stiff. Just to get a pinch more flex. A pinch more spin since I'm playing a heavy loop game now.

I've gotten use to it now with inverted on there so I don't really notice now but just thinking out loud.
 
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Nice pics there of XX. Def using a DHS blade.

Seems like a lot of pros are going to something with carbon for what I can only assume is the extra speed to counter the plastic ball.

So there's a part of me that thinks, maybe i should switch out from my clipper wood to something carbon. But at the same time I don't really feel I need more speed to win. While in the pros you probably do, it's a different game on the intermediate level. Seems to me that the player who can play aggressively and make fewer errors largely wins

So maybe I shouldn't go to carbon. I don't know. Do any of you ever think about that dynamic?

I do however sometimes wonder if I should look for a 5 ply blade vs my 7 ply clipper wood which I originally got for my short pip play as the blade is stiff. Just to get a pinch more flex. A pinch more spin since I'm playing a heavy loop game now.

I've gotten use to it now with inverted on there so I don't really notice now but just thinking out loud.
The beauty of DHS carbon blades is that, the carbon layers are underneath the second layers of wood. What it means is that with slow to medium stroke it plays like a wooden blade.

The carbon is activated when you are striking hard.

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This is a good video that summarizes the essential techniques of TPB. He demonstrates three techniques:

1- power push
2- power push + side slice (Ma Lin special)
3- suction block + power push.

For (3), suction block is for blocking slow spinny loop whereas power push is for power loop.

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Thanks SFF! Very informative and helps me a lot polishing my TPB especially my power blocking and side slicing. But I didn't get what he meant my suction block very well. Is it going closer to the table then closing the angle more then stepping out to power block? I really struggle with those slow loops myself.
 
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Thanks SFF! Very informative and helps me a lot polishing my TPB especially my power blocking and side slicing. But I didn't get what he meant my suction block very well. Is it going closer to the table then closing the angle more then stepping out to power block? I really struggle with those slow loops myself.
What he said about the suction action is that - use the thumb to press down the blade so the angle is small (i.e. closed angle). When the slow spinny ball comes, aim to touch the TOP of the ball. As soon as you make thr contact you pull back the blade.

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What he said about the suction action is that - use the thumb to press down the blade so the angle is small (i.e. closed angle). When the slow spinny ball comes, aim to touch the TOP of the ball. As soon as you make thr contact you pull back the blade.

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That's very helpful. Thanks!
 
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Catching up belatedly with this thread...

Re: suds79's pushing question...

"pushing" back when i played regularly in the 1980's meant adding downspin to the ball.

I've 2 types of pushes when adding downspin to the ball:

1) If i think the incoming ball has light downspin or nospin, i will add downspin
2) If i think i can't handle the downspin i will angle my racket, usually at extreme angle away from my partner to move him and get in position to push/angle the opposite side if he returns

With that said, after playing my friend 42andbackpains a few times, he has taught me/opened my eyes to the modern definition of pushing IMO ... just 'touch' the ball... i guess people call it 'float' ... IIRC, he gave me an example of a Ma Long vs Fan Zedong match ... they both pushed roughly to the short middle of the table close to the net so the opponent cannot do much with the ball and if the opponent makes a slight mistake that returns a tad longer then that lets the other open up, they will start attacking ... usually points went into the 7th or 8th ball before one of them opens up and attacks.

I have tried to do that in my game prior to my long break with varying success. I was also getting used to new blade with tensor rubbers and the balls bounce off super high.

Props to 42andbackpains for teaching a dinosaur the modern subleties of the game.


Last night after basic strokes, my partner wanted to push ... i mixed in my oldschool pushing with the modern push/float. Still need to work on shortening the return push.
 
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Seems like a lot of pros are going to something with carbon for what I can only assume is the extra speed to counter the plastic ball.

Your post and the XX pix reminded me, a friend gave me his old beat up butterfly taksim carbon blade. I have not tried it yet. I should put some rubbers on and see how it works out for me.

Seems to me that the player who can play aggressively and make fewer errors largely wins

#TRUTH not just for TT but for many other aspects of Life!

So maybe I shouldn't go to carbon. I don't know. Do any of you ever think about that dynamic?

I believe equipment helps up to a certain level, but at the higher levels or when one plays partners above his level or way above their level, it boils down to one's game/techniques/skills ... equipment won't help if one cannot read the higher level partner's spin or deal with the partner's speed.

If one has sound strokes/fundamentals then equipment may be a factor to improve one's game.
 
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Had a good hit with my club mate over lunch today. We play once a week and he's gotten significantly better. He's really beginning to push me so it's cool to see how much he has come along the way and it's fun to help people develop.

Realized today, and have been thinking about this for a week or so, that a leopard just can't chance it's spots. As much and as much I want to play like Wang hoa, I just can't do it. Instinctively my brain blocks shots with the TPB. And furthermore, I'm certainly more consistent with that block over the RPB block. Can I hit an aggressive RPB? yes. And it's nice. But I have to actively think to use it. Otherwise, the TPB comes out. The point where I use RPB the most is on service return where you can make your plan before the points starts. Honestly? I just don't hit that on a good enough % vs good serves and I think it does me more harm than good.

That being said I've got to wonder "what am i doing with my RPB side?" Little to nothing. I'm almost a single winged penholder. I might as well have a weapon back there. So I'm thinking of putting a LP or OX low grip SP back there & twiddling. That I can do in my sleep.

1/2 way though our hit session I practiced this style of play (even though i had dual inverted) and played like a single winged penholder. FH & TPB. Just simply played much better.

Maybe given my age, I am 38 after all, having this style outside of the norm will serve me well vs the plethora of duel inverted players there are out there.

We'll see.
 
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I agree on principle to this . But I feel there should be a constant monitoring from coaches to see if any player is hitting a plateau because of their equipment ... so IMO for people who don't have access to such coaching or technical advice, occassional EJ-ing is good ... the other thing I have experienced is change is always good, even if it does not work out , it just tells you that that is not the right equipment for you ... and in general the whole process of adapting to a new equipment forces you to embrace more flexibility and adaptability in the playing style ...
I believe equipment helps up to a certain level, but at the higher levels or when one plays partners above his level or way above their level, it boils down to one's game/techniques/skills ... equipment won't help if one cannot read the higher level partner's spin or deal with the partner's speed.

If one has sound strokes/fundamentals then equipment may be a factor to improve one's game.
 
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the other thing I have experienced is change is always good, even if it does not work out , it just tells you that that is not the right equipment for you ... and in general the whole process of adapting to a new equipment forces you to embrace more flexibility and adaptability in the playing style ...

*thinks monster is trying to jedi mind trick me into shakehands style*

LOLOLOL at me!
 
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Had a good hit with my club mate over lunch today. We play once a week and he's gotten significantly better. He's really beginning to push me so it's cool to see how much he has come along the way and it's fun to help people develop.

Realized today, and have been thinking about this for a week or so, that a leopard just can't chance it's spots. As much and as much I want to play like Wang hoa, I just can't do it. Instinctively my brain blocks shots with the TPB. And furthermore, I'm certainly more consistent with that block over the RPB block. Can I hit an aggressive RPB? yes. And it's nice. But I have to actively think to use it. Otherwise, the TPB comes out. The point where I use RPB the most is on service return where you can make your plan before the points starts. Honestly? I just don't hit that on a good enough % vs good serves and I think it does me more harm than good.

That being said I've got to wonder "what am i doing with my RPB side?" Little to nothing. I'm almost a single winged penholder. I might as well have a weapon back there. So I'm thinking of putting a LP or OX low grip SP back there & twiddling. That I can do in my sleep.

1/2 way though our hit session I practiced this style of play (even though i had dual inverted) and played like a single winged penholder. FH & TPB. Just simply played much better.

Maybe given my age, I am 38 after all, having this style outside of the norm will serve me well vs the plethora of duel inverted players there are out there.

We'll see.
Stick to what is natural to you. Ma Lin in late stage of career still beat up a lot of stronger younger players with TPB.

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