Koki Niwa Wood or Tibhar Force Pro Black edition

[GarField000]

Has anyone played with one off these before?
I am looking into one off these.
I played with Andro Kanter FO OFF with Rasanter R42 and R37.
But I switched now to Long Pips. but aggresive (attack almost every backspin ball).
On the Andro with Carbon the pips are hard to control with incoming hard hits.
I now use the Spinlord First Strike II. The all wood feels much beter but in the end it is slow.
I can do 2 things. Change pips to something like D.tecs but I think the most speed comes from the frame.

I was wondering if anyone can tell me how fast these frames are? KN Wood seems faster than the Tibhar. but because I don't have much experience in testing/playing with different OFF frames I have no idea how fast is fast . I used to play with Andro TP Ligna ALL

 

[ejprinz]

You can infer the speed from the frequency in this spreadsheet. I have the Black Edition and mine is 1400Hz so this is not slow. In fact it is as fast as the traditional Clipper clones like Yinhe 437 Purple Dragon. It has Limba top and tabletennis11.com blog has a review of it. I think it is an OK blade but I prefer a (much) slower blade, the Victas Swat. Inverted both sides though.
For my blades typically, the inner Carbon Limba top blades are slower, and the external Carbon Koto top are faster, following the spreadsheet. Inner Carbon is more like the 7-ply, or maybe a fast 5-ply.

 

[chris007]

Has anyone played with one off these before?
I am looking into one off these.
I played with Andro Kanter FO OFF with Rasanter R42 and R37.
But I switched now to Long Pips. but aggresive (attack almost every backspin ball).
On the Andro with Carbon the pips are hard to control with incoming hard hits.
I now use the Spinlord First Strike II. The all wood feels much beter but in the end it is slow.
I can do 2 things. Change pips to something like D.tecs but I think the most speed comes from the frame.

I was wondering if anyone can tell me how fast these frames are? KN Wood seems faster than the Tibhar. but because I don't have much experience in testing/playing with different OFF frames I have no idea how fast is fast . I used to play with Andro TP Ligna ALL

Niwa Wood has a lot of power, that's just my personal feeling. I only had a short trial period with my friend's Tibhar Force Pro.

 

[GarField000]

You can infer the speed from the frequency in this spreadsheet. I have the Black Edition and mine is 1400Hz so this is not slow. In fact it is as fast as the traditional Clipper clones like Yinhe 437 Purple Dragon. It has Limba top and tabletennis11.com blog has a review of it. I think it is an OK blade but I prefer a (much) slower blade, the Victas Swat. Inverted both sides though.
For my blades typically, the inner Carbon Limba top blades are slower, and the external Carbon Koto top are faster, following the spreadsheet. Inner Carbon is more like the 7-ply, or maybe a fast 5-ply.

Thx.
around 1313 in the spreadsheet. yours is 1400. So lats take average 1350.
koki niwa normal is around the same numbers. The koki niwa wood is slower so it should be slower than 1350.
than the tibhar would be a cheaper option.

 

[GarField000]

on the tablennis11 blog they say it's like stiga clipper, it's not as fast mor like all+ / Off- ....
These things confuse me so much

 

[Kolev]

I had the Force Pro Black. It felt kind a stiff and maybe(or maybe not) a tiny bit slower with a lower throw than the Pro Blue. It's good for people with bigger hands. If one likes to spin the ball better go with the Pro blue

 

[turbozed]

Here's a prety detailed comparison of Tibhar Force Pro against other popular 7 ply blades. https://ttgearlab.com/2017/02/16/sa...edition-vs-some-7-ply-wood-blades-comparison/

Koki Niwa Wood seems to be very similar to the Swat Power so that's another cheaper option ($129 EUR vs $95 EUR listed on the Victas site).

If you want even more value options, you can look into Yinhe Purple Dragon 437 and 537, and Sanwei's 7 ply blades (Fextra and V5 Pro).

For 7 ply blades, I think you want to decide on how thick you want to go. There are thinner 7 ply which are better for looping with more hold like the Fextra (6.0mm and two limba outer layers). Thicker you go, generally the more stiff and better for blocking and flat hitting. Koki Niwa Wood is listed at 6.5mm and Force Pro is 6.7mm, if that tells you anything.

 

[ejprinz]

I think this is a good point. Thicker 7 ply blades are stiffer, don't spin as well but are faster. If you go to a Victas Swat that blade is thinner and spins better but is significantly slower. If you want both the spin capability (with Limba top) and more speed, you end up at e.g. Ma Long's blade (Limba top, inner ALC carbon), or its slower versions e.g. the DHS Fang Bo 2 or the Yinhe Pro 05. For my current capabilities (USATT 1400) The Victas Swat is best for tournaments, I also played the Fang Bo 2 and the Yinhe Purple Dragon 437 (like Clipper) but while fun they are too fast for me to control the wide variety of balls I get in the tournament.

 

[turbozed]

I think this is a good point. Thicker 7 ply blades are stiffer, don't spin as well but are faster. If you go to a Victas Swat that blade is thinner and spins better but is significantly slower. If you want both the spin capability (with Limba top) and more speed, you end up at e.g. Ma Long's blade (Limba top, inner ALC carbon), or its slower versions e.g. the DHS Fang Bo 2 or the Yinhe Pro 05. For my current capabilities (USATT 1400) The Victas Swat is best for tournaments, I also played the Fang Bo 2 and the Yinhe Purple Dragon 437 (like Clipper) but while fun they are too fast for me to control the wide variety of balls I get in the tournament.

Have you tried the Yinhe U2? I've heard it has the most control and biggest sweet spot of the Off- 7 ply beginner blades (Swat, Fextra, PG7, etc.). It has a koto outer so not really a Clipper clone. But soft enough where good for looping. Recommended a lot on Chinese forums but nearly invisible on English speaking forums.

 

[GarField000]

Here's a prety detailed comparison of Tibhar Force Pro against other popular 7 ply blades. https://ttgearlab.com/2017/02/16/sa...edition-vs-some-7-ply-wood-blades-comparison/

Koki Niwa Wood seems to be very similar to the Swat Power so that's another cheaper option ($129 EUR vs $95 EUR listed on the Victas site).

If you want even more value options, you can look into Yinhe Purple Dragon 437 and 537, and Sanwei's 7 ply blades (Fextra and V5 Pro).

For 7 ply blades, I think you want to decide on how thick you want to go. There are thinner 7 ply which are better for looping with more hold like the Fextra (6.0mm and two limba outer layers). Thicker you go, generally the more stiff and better for blocking and flat hitting. Koki Niwa Wood is listed at 6.5mm and Force Pro is 6.7mm, if that tells you anything.

I play close to the table and setup higher balls with the long pips so I can flathit the balls fast, or with a little spin.
Also I do a lot off blocking. I am not a real loopspinner. Sometimes it will happen but my main game is close to table play.

 

[GarField000]

I think this is a good point. Thicker 7 ply blades are stiffer, don't spin as well but are faster. If you go to a Victas Swat that blade is thinner and spins better but is significantly slower. If you want both the spin capability (with Limba top) and more speed, you end up at e.g. Ma Long's blade (Limba top, inner ALC carbon), or its slower versions e.g. the DHS Fang Bo 2 or the Yinhe Pro 05. For my current capabilities (USATT 1400) The Victas Swat is best for tournaments, I also played the Fang Bo 2 and the Yinhe Purple Dragon 437 (like Clipper) but while fun they are too fast for me to control the wide variety of balls I get in the tournament.

Ma Long 5 blade is with carbon. I want a wood only blade as for me it feels better than the carbon ones.
Also I can't get many DHS blades here. There is also a Fang Bo wood blade but not available here.
But i am looking at wood only ..
I haven't had anything ever from Victas but somehow this one seems good. I might just get the Tibhar one and see from there. I play full tibhar than . Frame/FH/BH.

 

[GarField000]

Today my new set was ready and I picked it up.
Tibhar Force Pro Black edition with Tibhar evolution FX-S (instead the MX-S as the frame is faster) and with the grass dtecs.
I had training and after that some friendly matches.
The first thing I noticed was the weight. It was way more heavier than the andro/carbon set. 157gr for this one and 131 for the andro one.
With the bounce test the ball came a little higher than with the andro carbon frame. So it's faster?
But the feel is way different. I could control the ball much better.
During training we did exercises with attack short/backspin balls and just push fast with long pips to FH.
It felt very good so I think I got my setup. Now it's time for training/practise and matches till the new competitions season in october . Long time to train.

 

[turbozed]

Today my new set was ready and I picked it up.
Tibhar Force Pro Black edition with Tibhar evolution FX-S (instead the MX-S as the frame is faster) and with the grass dtecs.
I had training and after that some friendly matches.
The first thing I noticed was the weight. It was way more heavier than the andro/carbon set. 157gr for this one and 131 for the andro one.
With the bounce test the ball came a little higher than with the andro carbon frame. So it's faster?
But the feel is way different. I could control the ball much better.
During training we did exercises with attack short/backspin balls and just push fast with long pips to FH.
It felt very good so I think I got my setup. Now it's time for training/practise and matches till the new competitions season in october . Long time to train.

The bounce test only measures bounce at a certain ball speed. This might take into account only the rubber's interaction with the top layer. And there might not be enough force to activate the carbon layers. So it may be slower on low impact shots but much faster on harder impact shots. Actually, I just looked up reviews about this blade now and this reviewer says exactly this: https://blog.tabletennis11.com/review-shang-kun-hybrid-zc-yasaka-falck-carbon-andro-kanter-co-off

Anyway, your previous Andro blade is unusually light at around 64g (probably in the top 1% in terms of lightness). 157g is pretty damn light regardless for your new setup.

Congrats on finding a setup that works well for you. Cheers

 

[GarField000]

After some hours of training and matches I still do not have the YES YES YES factor with this Tibhar frame.
Can't put my finger on it ... also the handle is very sweaty .......
Maybe just get the koki niwa ... there are to many options

 

[JJ Ng]

After some hours of training and matches I still do not have the YES YES YES factor with this Tibhar frame.
Can't put my finger on it ... also the handle is very sweaty .......
Maybe just get the koki niwa ... there are to many options

I recently moved up from Tibhar Stratus Power Wood. And I have tried Tibhar Force Pro Black edition. I agree with you. It is just big and bulky. Good blade but a bit stiff and a bit lack of feeling. It is hard to pinpoint why I don't think it has the "it" factor for me. Anyway, I like Donic Persson Powerplay better. It is 7-ply and it is only $32.61 a blade on TT11.....

 

[[email protected]]

Here's a prety detailed comparison of Tibhar Force Pro against other popular 7 ply blades. https://ttgearlab.com/2017/02/16/sa...edition-vs-some-7-ply-wood-blades-comparison/

Koki Niwa Wood seems to be very similar to the Swat Power so that's another cheaper option ($129 EUR vs $95 EUR listed on the Victas site).

If you want even more value options, you can look into Yinhe Purple Dragon 437 and 537, and Sanwei's 7 ply blades (Fextra and V5 Pro).

For 7 ply blades, I think you want to decide on how thick you want to go. There are thinner 7 ply which are better for looping with more hold like the Fextra (6.0mm and two limba outer layers). Thicker you go, generally the more stiff and better for blocking and flat hitting. Koki Niwa Wood is listed at 6.5mm and Force Pro is 6.7mm, if that tells you anything.

7 ply wooden blade

what exactly are the advantages?

 

[GarField000]

7 ply wooden blade

what exactly are the advantages?

For what I know/see ...
All wood have more control, more dwel/contact time so should be better for spin.
For me with long pips carbon is to stiff and I have less control.


Carbon is more advantage for speed and you have many, many options in compostion to find the perfect blade for you. And they can be much lighter than all wood.
My Andro kanter FO is only 67gr while my 7ply wood butterfly sk7 korbel is 100!! gr.
The tibhar and koki niwa are around 85/90 gram.

 

[Peter93]

I used the Koki Niwa wood for a good while and it's a fantastic blade. It has an absolute great feeling for being so fast, and can generate tons of spin. The control is really great as well. I also used it with sponge and OX long pips and it felt really nice (I much preferred it with OX). However, with the loss of weight using OX lp, You need a pretty fast rubber to make up for the lack of speed (especially when playing against higher level players who will stay in rallies longer). I was using V > 20 Double Extra in max, but even I noticed the ball just was not going as fast as I needed it too (though the spin was enormous). I switched to EL Pro SuperSelect 53 and that helped a bit. I eventually ditched the Niwa Wood in favor of the Aruna Hinoki Carbon, which is faster, slightly stiffer, heavier, and as an added bonus has a slightly larger head size. The combination of inner carbon + hinoki top play keeps it soft enough that playing with lp, even in OX, is fine. If you do go with the Niwa Wood, I'd suggest asking for a heavier one. It's supposed to be ~90g, but both of the ones I received from TT11 were 81g.

 

[GarField000]

I never been so indecisive and spent money on trial and error .
I just ordered the Koki Niwa Wood .....
I do want a 'click' with my setup that it feels like I have the hardware that fits me.
The Tibhar is ok .... but I don't have the click YES I like this like I had with the rubbers.

 

[JJ Ng]

I never been so indecisive and spent money on trial and error .
I just ordered the Koki Niwa Wood .....
I do want a 'click' with my setup that it feels like I have the hardware that fits me.
The Tibhar is ok .... but I don't have the click YES I like this like I had with the rubbers.

Please update us how you like Koki Niwa Wood!!!

I am more decisive because I also EJ'ing with cheap blades and rubber but all those costs do add up over time! I need to cure my EJ at some point soon!