Let's talk forehand topspin of these two pros

[Gozo Zyreruna]

1. Hirano FH topspin
&
2. Pavade's FH topspin

Have a look at these two very distinct FH topspin of these two professional table-tennis player.

I asked Chad to give me a comparison and this is what he said:

The two players in the videos you shared have contrasting forehand styles, reflecting different technical approaches and philosophies in table tennis. Here’s a breakdown and comparison of each player’s forehand style:





Player 1 (First Video):





Forehand Loop Style:


• Key Characteristics:


• A compact and efficient stroke with minimal unnecessary movement.


• Uses shorter backswing and quick acceleration through the ball.


• Generates explosive power from the legs and torso with noticeable rotation of the hips.


• Close-to-the-table positioning with a focus on timing (usually early ball contact).


• Primary Strengths:


• A speed-first approach, emphasizing quick recovery between shots.


• Strong timing and consistency, allowing rapid combinations and counterattacks.


• Technical Focus:


• Wrist engagement is moderate, used to add spin without compromising speed.


• Emphasis on using body weight transfer and a strong, dynamic core.





Style Summary:


This style is designed for players relying on speed and quick transitions, often seen in Korean and Chinese forehand looping styles. It’s optimized for quick exchanges close to the table, where efficiency and timing are critical.





Player 2 (Second Video):





Forehand Loop Style:


• Key Characteristics:


• A larger, more pronounced backswing, generating more power from the full body.


• Heavily uses the shoulders and arm extension to drive the ball with more force.


• Slower recovery due to the longer swing, making this style more suited for mid-distance or power play.


• Primary Strengths:


• A spin-first, power-oriented approach, focusing on maximum ball rotation with significant forward force.


• Greater variation potential between loops (spinny vs. flat).


• Technical Focus:


• Strong arm extension and pronounced follow-through.


• Emphasis on using body momentum with a deep weight transfer from back to front.


• Wrist usage appears more prominent for fine-tuning spin on contact.





Style Summary:


This approach reflects a more European-influenced looping style (or a player focusing on mid-distance power loops), emphasizing spin generation and heavy forehand power over rapid transitions and close-table speed.





Comparison





Aspect Player 1 Player 2


Backswing Short, compact Larger, more pronounced


Stroke Length Compact, minimal follow-through Full extension with a larger arc


Speed vs. Spin Focus Speed-first, compact acceleration Spin-first, emphasizing full body mechanics


Recovery Time Fast recovery for rapid rallies Slower recovery due to longer follow-through


Playing Distance Close-to-the-table Mid-distance


Body Mechanics Strong core and leg-driven movement Full-body rotation with heavy arm engagement


Wrist Engagement Moderate High





Which Style Is Better?





It depends on your playing philosophy.


• Player 1’s compact style is ideal for fast-paced, close-to-the-table exchanges. It suits a player who emphasizes quick attacks, fast recovery, and rapid combination play.


• Player 2’s power-looping style is more suitable for players who prefer to dominate from mid-distance, using heavy spin and power to overwhelm the opponent, but it comes at the cost of recovery speed and quick transitions.

 

[Metaxa]

I would call player 1's FH more of a counter-attack, while player 2 uses a clear looping top spin. I myself am/was much more like player 2 and also left-handed. If you play a little further from the table and you control this stroke you give yourself more time I think. Also positionally, I think you can steer the balls more where you want them and with much more variation in rotation. If you can then also combine this stroke with a good BH, you might have 3000 level.🤣

 

[NetProphet]

1. Hirano FH topspin
&
2. Pavade's FH topspin

Have a look at these two very distinct FH topspin of these two professional table-tennis player.

I asked Chad to give me a comparison and this is what he said:

The two players in the videos you shared have contrasting forehand styles, reflecting different technical approaches and philosophies in table tennis. Here’s a breakdown and comparison of each player’s forehand style:





Player 1 (First Video):





Forehand Loop Style:


• Key Characteristics:


• A compact and efficient stroke with minimal unnecessary movement.


• Uses shorter backswing and quick acceleration through the ball.


• Generates explosive power from the legs and torso with noticeable rotation of the hips.


• Close-to-the-table positioning with a focus on timing (usually early ball contact).


• Primary Strengths:


• A speed-first approach, emphasizing quick recovery between shots.


• Strong timing and consistency, allowing rapid combinations and counterattacks.


• Technical Focus:


• Wrist engagement is moderate, used to add spin without compromising speed.


• Emphasis on using body weight transfer and a strong, dynamic core.





Style Summary:


This style is designed for players relying on speed and quick transitions, often seen in Korean and Chinese forehand looping styles. It’s optimized for quick exchanges close to the table, where efficiency and timing are critical.





Player 2 (Second Video):





Forehand Loop Style:


• Key Characteristics:


• A larger, more pronounced backswing, generating more power from the full body.


• Heavily uses the shoulders and arm extension to drive the ball with more force.


• Slower recovery due to the longer swing, making this style more suited for mid-distance or power play.


• Primary Strengths:


• A spin-first, power-oriented approach, focusing on maximum ball rotation with significant forward force.


• Greater variation potential between loops (spinny vs. flat).


• Technical Focus:


• Strong arm extension and pronounced follow-through.


• Emphasis on using body momentum with a deep weight transfer from back to front.


• Wrist usage appears more prominent for fine-tuning spin on contact.





Style Summary:


This approach reflects a more European-influenced looping style (or a player focusing on mid-distance power loops), emphasizing spin generation and heavy forehand power over rapid transitions and close-table speed.





Comparison





Aspect Player 1 Player 2


Backswing Short, compact Larger, more pronounced


Stroke Length Compact, minimal follow-through Full extension with a larger arc


Speed vs. Spin Focus Speed-first, compact acceleration Spin-first, emphasizing full body mechanics


Recovery Time Fast recovery for rapid rallies Slower recovery due to longer follow-through


Playing Distance Close-to-the-table Mid-distance


Body Mechanics Strong core and leg-driven movement Full-body rotation with heavy arm engagement


Wrist Engagement Moderate High





Which Style Is Better?





It depends on your playing philosophy.


• Player 1’s compact style is ideal for fast-paced, close-to-the-table exchanges. It suits a player who emphasizes quick attacks, fast recovery, and rapid combination play.


• Player 2’s power-looping style is more suitable for players who prefer to dominate from mid-distance, using heavy spin and power to overwhelm the opponent, but it comes at the cost of recovery speed and quick transitions.

Post of the year so far there Gozo!

Sorry if that seems like I'm poking fun as its only Jan 9th! 😛
I mean it though, really good to see those side by side with such a nice synopsis.

Which style are you?

 

[JJ Ng]

Gozo, very good videos! Thank you for digging them up and share with us.

Hirano played close to the table. Pavade played mid distance to the table.

Hirano quick loop at the top of the bounce. Pavade clearly waited the ball to drop on the way down and focus on a larger stroke to put heavy spin on it.

I am sure if Hirano is forced away from the table, she will loop like Pavade-style. I am sure if Pavade is forced to play close to the table, she will loop like Hirano-style.

What you should know that pro's are good at every single stroke: looping, blocking, chopping, pushing, smashing, serving, return of serve, backhand flip, forehand flip, etc. etc.. However due to their body mechanics and the style they have been playing with, the coach will help them develop a strategy to incorporate their strengths and hide their weakness. I am sure Hirano can loop mid-stance too with more power. I am sure Pavade can loop close to the table. It is just a matter of what their preferences are.

Muscle pong channel on YouTube has a great great video posted about a provincial level coach who moved to Seattle, WA in the US and has a steady number of clients now. Please see the video below for what the provincial level coach has to say.

Some highlights:

1) All forehand strokes, power come from the core muscles and from the ground.

2) Everyone's forehand strokes look different. There is nothing wrong with that. Every player will eventually develop their own style of their forehand loop. That is absolutely ok.

3) Do NOT imitate top players and their strokes. The provincial coach (Richard) said that, first of all, you can try to imitate Ma Long. But there is only one Ma Long and you will never imitate it to 100% because, well, you don't train like Ma Long. Why even try to imitate him down to the details? Instead, top players engage their core in different manners: some more subtle and some more extreme. But Richard is sure 100% all of them engage their core no matter it is Chinese forehand or European forehand, and no matter it is big stroke or small stroke. With top players, they all engage their core muscle differently but they do it every single time. You cannot appreciate that because you are not in the body of those top players and you are clueless about how they engage the core muscles.

this goes back to the debate on this forum periodically about, "Is Chinese forehand better or European forehand better?" The coach, Richard, basically implied, it does not matter. What matters is, are you comfortable with your forehand stroke? Are you engaging your core and push off the ground with each forehand stroke? If so, don't worry if you have chinese forehand or European forehand. Just as long as you do the basics (and I assume recover in time between loops), you should be fine.

Heads up, I can speak and read Mandarin. the video has a lot of descriptions spoken verbally in Mandarin so the subtitles only covers about 50-60% of what is actually discussed? But good enough for most viewers.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Post of the year so far there Gozo!

Sorry if that seems like I'm poking fun as its only Jan 9th! 😛
I mean it though, really good to see those side by side with such a nice synopsis.

Which style are you?

I'm more into Pavade's style. This is just how it is. Hirano's style to me seems like a recipe for shoulder / back repetitive strain injury. Scary body mechanics!!!

 

[schrodingerskoalabear]

Gozo, very good videos! Thank you for digging them up and share with us.

Hirano played close to the table. Pavade played mid distance to the table.

Hirano quick loop at the top of the bounce. Pavade clearly waited the ball to drop on the way down and focus on a larger stroke to put heavy spin on it.

I am sure if Hirano is forced away from the table, she will loop like Pavade-style. I am sure if Pavade is forced to play close to the table, she will loop like Hirano-style.

What you should know that pro's are good at every single stroke: looping, blocking, chopping, pushing, smashing, serving, return of serve, backhand flip, forehand flip, etc. etc.. However due to their body mechanics and the style they have been playing with, the coach will help them develop a strategy to incorporate their strengths and hide their weakness. I am sure Hirano can loop mid-stance too with more power. I am sure Pavade can loop close to the table. It is just a matter of what their preferences are.

Muscle pong channel on YouTube has a great great video posted about a provincial level coach who moved to Seattle, WA in the US and has a steady number of clients now. Please see the video below for what the provincial level coach has to say.

Some highlights:

1) All forehand strokes, power come from the core muscles and from the ground.

2) Everyone's forehand strokes look different. There is nothing wrong with that. Every player will eventually develop their own style of their forehand loop. That is absolutely ok.

3) Do NOT imitate top players and their strokes. The provincial coach (Richard) said that, first of all, you can try to imitate Ma Long. But there is only one Ma Long and you will never imitate it to 100% because, well, you don't train like Ma Long. Why even try to imitate him down to the details? Instead, top players engage their core in different manners: some more subtle and some more extreme. But Richard is sure 100% all of them engage their core no matter it is Chinese forehand or European forehand, and no matter it is big stroke or small stroke. With top players, they all engage their core muscle differently but they do it every single time. You cannot appreciate that because you are not in the body of those top players and you are clueless about how they engage the core muscles.

this goes back to the debate on this forum periodically about, "Is Chinese forehand better or European forehand better?" The coach, Richard, basically implied, it does not matter. What matters is, are you comfortable with your forehand stroke? Are you engaging your core and push off the ground with each forehand stroke? If so, don't worry if you have chinese forehand or European forehand. Just as long as you do the basics (and I assume recover in time between loops), you should be fine.

Heads up, I can speak and read Mandarin. the video has a lot of descriptions spoken verbally in Mandarin so the subtitles only covers about 50-60% of what is actually discussed? But good enough for most viewers.

This is an excellent video to watch for the FH. In part II of Muscle Pong training with Richard, I especially liked Richard's demonstration of stopping the shoulder so the arm folds and the hand holding the racket accelerates into the shot. I had not been able to pick up that nuance of the technique at all.

I did have a question for anyone who can answer regarding "engaging the core": does "engaging the core" mean holding your core tight as you weight transfer, rotate and hit the shot?

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

I did have a question for anyone who can answer regarding "engaging the core": does "engaging the core" mean holding your core tight as you weight transfer, rotate and hit the shot?

Yes, tighten your muscle around your core. This, I learned from Andreas Levenko YT video. Keep it tight, keep it real brother!

 

[Lazer]

This is an excellent video to watch for the FH. In part II of Muscle Pong training with Richard, I especially liked Richard's demonstration of stopping the shoulder so the arm folds and the hand holding the racket accelerates into the shot. I had not been able to pick up that nuance of the technique at all.

I did have a question for anyone who can answer regarding "engaging the core": does "engaging the core" mean holding your core tight as you weight transfer, rotate and hit the shot?

I have to agree with you “training should not be to copy somebody’s style, it should be you creating your own” (something like this) was the best advice I heard in a long time. As long as you have the basic form this is priceless…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[JJ Ng]

This is an excellent video to watch for the FH. In part II of Muscle Pong training with Richard, I especially liked Richard's demonstration of stopping the shoulder so the arm folds and the hand holding the racket accelerates into the shot. I had not been able to pick up that nuance of the technique at all.

I did have a question for anyone who can answer regarding "engaging the core": does "engaging the core" mean holding your core tight as you weight transfer, rotate and hit the shot?

I think engaging the core is different for different people as well. My interpretation of the core means: abdominal muscle, waist, hip and legs pushing off the ground. I don't consider shoulder, forearm and wrist to be part of the core.

So what that means, be totally relaxed, and then tighten your core (i.e. tighten the abdominal muscle, rotate your waist, move your hips and push off the ground at the same time). Then you HAVE to relax completely again and recover. Then you tighten it again. Do it over and over again.

No way you should tighten your core all the time.

As for how to tighten your core, I think that is again player and style dependent. Some people might generate more power from pushing off the ground. Some people might generate more power from rotating their waist. You have to find your own comfort level.

For me, I would push off the ground first, and then immediately engage the other cores (abd muscle, waist and hip). I think I generate most of the power from my legs and my waist?

 

[dingyibvs]

I'm more into Pavade's style. This is just how it is. Hirano's style to me seems like a recipe for shoulder / back repetitive strain injury. Scary body mechanics!!!

You should read @JJ Ng's post. You can't use Pavade's style because you don't play far enough from the table.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

can't help showcasing the two school of fh looping.

See how high SYS is holding her racket upon contact with the ball versus Dragomann's low to high arm swing.

 

[jonol]

They're mostly different because of the timing of the loops.

Drago is letting the ball drop lower and taking the ball later. If she closes the angle it won't clear the net.

SYS is taking the ball on the rise right near its peak from closer to the table. If she was opening the angle too much it would overshoot the table.

Everyone has a preference for how close/far they play from the table, how they time their loops etc. but you need to be able to play the forehand in multiple ways.

If SYS was playing further back, her shot will start to look more like Drago and vice versa.

 

[Bran]

It's two completely different use cases, where Dragoman is having to deal with a backspin ball open up, then with soft blocks, whereas SYS is countering fast paced backhand reloops and finish off by countering a FH reloop/counter. The two have different techniques and stroke profiles overall, but you're not comparing the same situations at all.

 

[Yuomay]

À big difference is that SYS can force any opponent into letting her play this game with these type of fast exchanges. Only against defenders I have seen her change the approach.

Dragoman on the other hand cannot do that. I think it’s a question of athleticism because at the men’s game her big loops are totally the norm, also in Asia

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

can't help showcasing the two school of fh looping.
View attachment 43831
View attachment 43832

See how high SYS is holding her racket upon contact with the ball versus Dragomann's low to high arm swing.

Two Forehand Looping Styles: Sun Yingsha vs Andreea Dragoman


Watching these two players reveals two different emphases in forehand looping. This is not about which style is better, but how each creates pressure.


1. Sun Yingsha: Speed and Early Timing


Characteristics

• Takes the ball early, close to the table.
• Uses compact strokes and quick racket acceleration.
• Combines topspin with forward speed.
• Maintains pressure through rapid relooping and counterattacking.

Pros

• Takes time away from the opponent.
• Makes it difficult for the opponent to recover and prepare.
• Effective against players who struggle with fast exchanges.

Cons

• Requires excellent timing, anticipation and footwork.
• Less time to adjust when the incoming ball changes speed, spin or placement.
• Errors can increase when the player is rushed or caught out of position.

2. Andreea Dragoman: Spin and High-Arc Construction


Characteristics

• Uses a pronounced upward-and-forward looping action.
• Produces a high-arching, spin-heavy ball.
• Uses rotation, depth and placement to create difficult returns.
• Builds the rally before accelerating to finish.

Pros

• Greater net clearance and a potentially larger margin for error.
• Heavy topspin can force weaker blocks or mistakes.
• Creates opportunities for subsequent attacks rather than forcing immediate winners.

Cons

• Requires good racket acceleration and brushing to avoid producing slow, harmless loops.
• Can give the opponent more time if the ball lacks depth or penetration.
• Mid-distance positioning can leave the player vulnerable to wide angles and short balls.

3. The Key Difference


In simple terms:

• SYS: Take time away from the opponent through speed and early timing.
• Dragoman: Create difficulty through rotation, trajectory and placement.

Both players use topspin. The difference is their emphasis, not an absolute separation between speed and spin.


Conclusion


Neither style is universally superior. The better choice depends on a player’s physical attributes, technical strengths and tactical preferences.


A practical approach is to develop a reliable, spin-heavy opening loop, then add acceleration and quick recovery for the next ball. The objective is to use spin to create the opportunity and speed to exploit it.

 

[Archosaurus]

I've done a lot of frame-by-frame analysis of pro shots, and honestly most of the techniques are basically the same. It's just the semi-superfluous stuff like the off-hand, backswing and followthrough that differ, so they end up looking really different visually, but the contact is really similar between almost everyone.