Match video: Feedback welcome

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I played in a small tournament over the weekend where I got second-to-last place. Watching this video, taken by my opponent, you'll see a ton of little mistakes that just mount quickly. He and I are both about the same level in ability but he doesn't make nearly as many mistakes as I do. I think there were ways I could have even won this match especially after taking game two but I rushed too much and did a million other things wrong.

EDIT: I'm in the black sleeveless shirt.


 
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whoops you are the gray shirt. I got confused because blue shirt moved the camera.

You are actually much better than your opponent; you just aren't making the right decisions as a player.
You don't attack his forehand corner enough.
You don't make enough down the line shots by the way.

*************
Technical stuff

1) Your backhand is wrong. It goes off to the side too much. I usually see when the ball gets too close to your body. Hit the ball when it is farther away instead. The backhand stroke is supposed to be more of forward motion. So, you have to relearn the stroke and the timing of your stroke for your backhand.

2) Your forehand is not bad at spinning the ball up, but it looks pretty bad at spinning the ball forward. Try practicing forehand looping some half-long topspin serves

3) Your footwork doesn't seem sufficient. There are two areas where this is obvious.

a) Wide angle to the forehand. Try learning the crossover step to cover the deep forehand corner.
b) Elbow area. You miss a lot of openings because the ball went to the middle. Since you are right-handed, if you don't have time to move, you could learn to move your left foot to the left and turn your torso back (clockwise) to give yourself room for a forehand shot.

Always be ready to move, on the balls of your feet.

4) Oh yeah, you don't turn your body enough. Definitely do that. Turn your body with the ball.

5) Your service return in general seems very weak. Train against different serves. Learn to attack them. Learn to forehand flip (it doesn't have to be strong, just get it on the table). When you push, the timing is supposed to be early. The quality of your pushes are definitely bad. Learn to push long and spinny.

6) Your follow-through swing for your forehand doesn't seem to be too good, since you miss so many forehand shots. You have to go through the ball while spinning it. Going through the ball is more important than spinning it, not the other way around. I used to have this problem too. You have to focus on hitting the ball first, spinning the ball second. If you do that, you will get a more solid shot. Definitely don't hesitate on those high balls; swing through them fast.

7) Learn to aim for both corners.
********************

Overall, you seem to be missing one key factor in gameplay. You don't seem to take advantage of your opponents weaknesses. Your opponent actually seem to be able to do much besides vary his serves. I'm not seeing him loop the ball or anything, so that gives you a lot of options. Was there something wrong with pushing long to the forehand? Your opponent is definitely likes playing with his backhand, so play a few to his forehand.



***************
On the side note, have you ever tried copying your opponents serve? Not like copy the motion of serve, but do the same type of serve. He is clearly beating you because of his serves. You should think, "What he does to you might work against hiim." I've done that plenty of times, and this reminds you to serve short, topspin to the forehand or whatever. It should help you vary your serves a little bit.
 
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Yeah a lot of these things are bad muscle memory things I've developed from teaching myself. I

I have a hard time pushing the ball on the serve receive, you'll see i'm constantly chopping it too high or just messing it up altogether. I also am trying to do a slow loop too much when I get a lot of backspin on the third ball. Not sure if I should just push back or what?

On going through with the forehand: Should I just be opting to drive the ball more than come over the ball looping? I just worry that it won't be effective if I do.


I definitely need to relearn my backhand. There are so many points I could have won with a strong loop-drive with my backhand off the serve but I'm not going up with it like you said.

Mainly I just need to practice the CORRECT stuff until I don't have to think about it so much during a match.




whoops you are the gray shirt. I got confused because blue shirt moved the camera.

You are actually much better than your opponent; you just aren't making the right decisions as a player.
You don't attack his forehand corner enough.
You don't make enough down the line shots by the way.

*************
Technical stuff

1) Your backhand is wrong. It goes off to the side too much. I usually see when the ball gets too close to your body. Hit the ball when it is farther away instead. The backhand stroke is supposed to be more of forward motion. So, you have to relearn the stroke and the timing of your stroke for your backhand.

2) Your forehand is not bad at spinning the ball up, but it looks pretty bad at spinning the ball forward. Try practicing forehand looping some half-long topspin serves

3) Your footwork doesn't seem sufficient. There are two areas where this is obvious.

a) Wide angle to the forehand. Try learning the crossover step to cover the deep forehand corner.
b) Elbow area. You miss a lot of openings because the ball went to the middle. Since you are right-handed, if you don't have time to move, you could learn to move your left foot to the left and turn your torso back (clockwise) to give yourself room for a forehand shot.

Always be ready to move, on the balls of your feet.

4) Oh yeah, you don't turn your body enough. Definitely do that. Turn your body with the ball.

5) Your service return in general seems very weak. Train against different serves. Learn to attack them. Learn to forehand flip (it doesn't have to be strong, just get it on the table). When you push, the timing is supposed to be early. The quality of your pushes are definitely bad. Learn to push long and spinny.

6) Your follow-through swing for your forehand doesn't seem to be too good, since you miss so many forehand shots. You have to go through the ball while spinning it. Going through the ball is more important than spinning it, not the other way around. I used to have this problem too. You have to focus on hitting the ball first, spinning the ball second. If you do that, you will get a more solid shot. Definitely don't hesitate on those high balls; swing through them fast.

7) Learn to aim for both corners.
********************

Overall, you seem to be missing one key factor in gameplay. You don't seem to take advantage of your opponents weaknesses. Your opponent actually seem to be able to do much besides vary his serves. I'm not seeing him loop the ball or anything, so that gives you a lot of options. Was there something wrong with pushing long to the forehand? Your opponent is definitely likes playing with his backhand, so play a few to his forehand.



***************
On the side note, have you ever tried copying your opponents serve? Not like copy the motion of serve, but do the same type of serve. He is clearly beating you because of his serves. You should think, "What he does to you might work against hiim." I've done that plenty of times, and this reminds you to serve short, topspin to the forehand or whatever. It should help you vary your serves a little bit.
 
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No, don't push back. Always loop when you can, because you are still developing.


Keeping spinning the ball, but when the ball is slow and high, make sure you go through the ball a little bit. You still should spin it.


As for service receive, the only way is to keep playing with other people. Looping the serve should make your life easier though.
 
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- you're not focused enough when serving
- bro i've watched now 3 serves from you.. what is that? it's more like you are throwing the ball somehow..
and wtf like every second serve a serve-mistake NOT ALLOWED im getting so mad when seeing that.
if you're really interestet in table tennis 10000 serves from now on every week. what you're doing there is really crappy and
for a bad serve there is no excuse just that you're a lazy bitch :p
- you're standing too straight --> take in table tennis position
- serve receive: it seems sometimes to me that you're surprised that the ball is coming to your side of the table and you're panicing?? you're ball awaiting is not good there. you already have to try to anticipate what is coming before the ball is on your side and try to move accordingly. A general rule is that if you're not seeing well what rotation the ball has let it jump longer and try to play the ball in the direction of where the racket of you're opponent is coming when he is starting his serve-movement. Dont be too hastey
-now im having a problem. when it comes to you're gameplay. i dont want to be ugly with you. but it's like that you dont have the possibility yet to have a gameplay. you're technique is, how should i say, not there. you never had a proper coach?
or a much stronger player who could show you a bit? like this it seems to me that you just dont have the possibilites for a gameplay if you're opponent is playing actually table tennis and not ping pong. if you want to improve you have to find a way to start from the bottom with everything. every off you're movements is off even the chop. If you cant find players to help you or find a club with a coach, try to find movement tutorials; buy a robot; film yourself. try to improve. but the chances to get better without coach a close to 0 sorry.
- last point: you are a young men who is in good shape--> you're moving slow and kind of stiff like an old man. dafug man? go do gymnastics and search footwork exercises for yourself. there is no excuse for that

my best wishes and good luck
 
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- you're not focused enough when serving
- bro i've watched now 3 serves from you.. what is that? it's more like you are throwing the ball somehow..
and wtf like every second serve a serve-mistake NOT ALLOWED im getting so mad when seeing that.
if you're really interestet in table tennis 10000 serves from now on every week. what you're doing there is really crappy and
for a bad serve there is no excuse just that you're a lazy bitch :p
- you're standing too straight --> take in table tennis position
- serve receive: it seems sometimes to me that you're surprised that the ball is coming to your side of the table and you're panicing?? you're ball awaiting is not good there. you already have to try to anticipate what is coming before the ball is on your side and try to move accordingly. A general rule is that if you're not seeing well what rotation the ball has let it jump longer and try to play the ball in the direction of where the racket of you're opponent is coming when he is starting his serve-movement. Dont be too hastey
-now im having a problem. when it comes to you're gameplay. i dont want to be ugly with you. but it's like that you dont have the possibility yet to have a gameplay. you're technique is, how should i say, not there. you never had a proper coach?
or a much stronger player who could show you a bit? like this it seems to me that you just dont have the possibilites for a gameplay if you're opponent is playing actually table tennis and not ping pong. if you want to improve you have to find a way to start from the bottom with everything. every off you're movements is off even the chop. If you cant find players to help you or find a club with a coach, try to find movement tutorials; buy a robot; film yourself. try to improve. but the chances to get better without coach a close to 0 sorry.
- last point: you are a young men who is in good shape--> you're moving slow and kind of stiff like an old man. dafug man? go do gymnastics and search footwork exercises for yourself. there is no excuse for that

my best wishes and good luck

I feel like this comment is not helpful at all and is not constructive criticism.

Tyler, don't take what this guy has said personally, everyone starts somewhere, and for someone who has taught themself how to play, you are doing well.

One tip I can give you is to study the pro's a little bit. Watch training videos and match play and try to copy their technique. If you are serious about getting better, film yourself training and look for technique differences between yourself and the pro's and adjust accordingly. This will give you a good starting point, from there it is just practice, practice, practice.

Best of Luck!
 
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You probably could have given me a lot of this critique without calling me a lazy bitch and stuff! I will be getting some coaching soon, and I'm still learning and practicing as much as I can with my schedule. I KNOW that I'm bad otherwise I wouldn't have to ask for advice from you, so you don't need to tell me I'm bad. Thanks, though.

- you're not focused enough when serving
- bro i've watched now 3 serves from you.. what is that? it's more like you are throwing the ball somehow..
and wtf like every second serve a serve-mistake NOT ALLOWED im getting so mad when seeing that.
if you're really interestet in table tennis 10000 serves from now on every week. what you're doing there is really crappy and
for a bad serve there is no excuse just that you're a lazy bitch :p
- you're standing too straight --> take in table tennis position
- serve receive: it seems sometimes to me that you're surprised that the ball is coming to your side of the table and you're panicing?? you're ball awaiting is not good there. you already have to try to anticipate what is coming before the ball is on your side and try to move accordingly. A general rule is that if you're not seeing well what rotation the ball has let it jump longer and try to play the ball in the direction of where the racket of you're opponent is coming when he is starting his serve-movement. Dont be too hastey
-now im having a problem. when it comes to you're gameplay. i dont want to be ugly with you. but it's like that you dont have the possibility yet to have a gameplay. you're technique is, how should i say, not there. you never had a proper coach?
or a much stronger player who could show you a bit? like this it seems to me that you just dont have the possibilites for a gameplay if you're opponent is playing actually table tennis and not ping pong. if you want to improve you have to find a way to start from the bottom with everything. every off you're movements is off even the chop. If you cant find players to help you or find a club with a coach, try to find movement tutorials; buy a robot; film yourself. try to improve. but the chances to get better without coach a close to 0 sorry.
- last point: you are a young men who is in good shape--> you're moving slow and kind of stiff like an old man. dafug man? go do gymnastics and search footwork exercises for yourself. there is no excuse for that

my best wishes and good luck
 
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Yeah I was lucky that my opponent this match had a gopro. I've been watching the video a lot and spotting a lot of my mistakes. It's easier in retrospect to see what I'm doing wrong than in the moment.

I feel like this comment is not helpful at all and is not constructive criticism.

Tyler, don't take what this guy has said personally, everyone starts somewhere, and for someone who has taught themself how to play, you are doing well.

One tip I can give you is to study the pro's a little bit. Watch training videos and match play and try to copy their technique. If you are serious about getting better, film yourself training and look for technique differences between yourself and the pro's and adjust accordingly. This will give you a good starting point, from there it is just practice, practice, practice.

Best of Luck!
 
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- you're not focused enough when serving
- bro i've watched now 3 serves from you.. what is that? it's more like you are throwing the ball somehow..
and wtf like every second serve a serve-mistake NOT ALLOWED im getting so mad when seeing that.
if you're really interestet in table tennis 10000 serves from now on every week. what you're doing there is really crappy and
for a bad serve there is no excuse just that you're a lazy bitch :p
- you're standing too straight --> take in table tennis position
- serve receive: it seems sometimes to me that you're surprised that the ball is coming to your side of the table and you're panicing?? you're ball awaiting is not good there. you already have to try to anticipate what is coming before the ball is on your side and try to move accordingly. A general rule is that if you're not seeing well what rotation the ball has let it jump longer and try to play the ball in the direction of where the racket of you're opponent is coming when he is starting his serve-movement. Dont be too hastey
-now im having a problem. when it comes to you're gameplay. i dont want to be ugly with you. but it's like that you dont have the possibility yet to have a gameplay. you're technique is, how should i say, not there. you never had a proper coach?
or a much stronger player who could show you a bit? like this it seems to me that you just dont have the possibilites for a gameplay if you're opponent is playing actually table tennis and not ping pong. if you want to improve you have to find a way to start from the bottom with everything. every off you're movements is off even the chop. If you cant find players to help you or find a club with a coach, try to find movement tutorials; buy a robot; film yourself. try to improve. but the chances to get better without coach a close to 0 sorry.
- last point: you are a young men who is in good shape--> you're moving slow and kind of stiff like an old man. dafug man? go do gymnastics and search footwork exercises for yourself. there is no excuse for that

my best wishes and good luck

I feel like this comment is slightly rude...

Anyway, when serving I think you should get into the habit of tossing the ball slightly higher to make you contact the ball higher above the table - 3:50. Also, sometimes, on your FH the bat is nearly vertical and facing the opponent. How do you train? With a coach? I think you also should work on your footwork. Just side stepping will improve your movement a lot, currently, you are not anticipating the next shot - you are just standing there admiring the shot before :p which also relates to recovery after each shot. Recovery, movement and anticipating the next shot (look at the position of their body/arm/bat) are the most important thing you need to work on. Power and technique will develop with time.
 
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Let's say my opponent receives my serve with a ton of backspin but it pops high enough that I can loop it. Usually when I get this kind of ball I either try to lift the ball too much on the loop and overshoot or don't lift the ball enough and it goes into the net. It's a problem of touch for me, which might be experience. But I definitely had a lot of balls I could have looped in this game but didn't out of that fear.

No, don't push back. Always loop when you can, because you are still developing.


Keeping spinning the ball, but when the ball is slow and high, make sure you go through the ball a little bit. You still should spin it.


As for service receive, the only way is to keep playing with other people. Looping the serve should make your life easier though.
 

JHB

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I'll just mention one thing. If you're playing a genuine match rather than a practise game, you need services which you can rely on. Every one - even the professionals - misses a serve now and then, but you don't want to be giving your opponent several free points in a match especially when playing to 11. That being the case, you might want to consider putting that reverse pendulum service away in matchplay until you can hit it a bit more reliably than you are managing in the video.
 
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I played in a small tournament over the weekend where I got second-to-last place. Watching this video, taken by my opponent, you'll see a ton of little mistakes that just mount quickly. He and I are both about the same level in ability but he doesn't make nearly as many mistakes as I do. I think there were ways I could have even won this match especially after taking game two but I rushed too much and did a million other things wrong.

EDIT: I'm in the black sleeveless shirt.




There is too much information about yourself and context missing. What is your rating/experience level and what are your goals? How long have you been playing for?
 
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says Spin and more spin.
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Info: SongDavid has given some great advice on tactical info. I will piggyback one tactical piece on what he said. When an opponent is having as much trouble receiving serves with his FH as your opponent was, you sort of need to use that to your advantage. You could have even started serving from the FH corner so that, if he cheated towards the FH side to receive serve with BH on FH side, you could have served down the line to BH and had him wide open and off balance. If you watch the points where you do go to his FH whether with serve or in rally, he struggles greatly on the FH side. So exploiting that would be worth it from a tactical standpoint.

The rest is technique. Most of it is hard to fix but easy to work on. So there is a real positive side to this.

1) You miss too many serves. You have to work on that. Your opponent missed 1 serve the whole match. You missed at least 4 serves in the first game.

Particularly if there is a serve that you sometimes miss, like your reverse pendulum, you need to not use it until you really almost never miss it. That simply means working on it. Without the reverse pendulum serve you probably would have only missed 2-3 serves in the match instead of 6+. So, work on the serves.

Your BH serve gives you similar sidespin to the reverse pendulum but is much safer. Learning a hook or a tomahawk would also help you to have that sidespin with an easier serve.

2) You need to work on your reset. After your serve or after any shot, you need to get ready as soon after as you can.

A general rule for serves, you should be set and in a ready position for the return of serve BEFORE your serve bounces on the opponent's side. That is correct. You should be ready for the next ball before your serve lands on the other side so you can see where your opponent is going with his shot and move to the next ball as your opponent is making the shot. Not after.

This is actually the case in a rally too. After you hit any shot, ideally, you should be reset and in a ready position before your ball lands on your opponent's side. The reason is still the same. You can't really expect yourself to be able to adjust to the ball, if you don't seen where it is going until it passes the net. When the ball is over the net, it is already too late to adjust to the placement. If you are reset early you have plenty of time to adjust to the next ball.

It takes work to get the technique for that into muscle memory. But it is something you can practice.

3) You need to practice pushing the ball. It may be the most boring thing in the world to practice. But you need to work on it. Your skill level in everything else is way above your skill level at pushing. And improving your push would almost instantly increase your level 100 points.

That being said, I agree with David that you should loop everything you can. But you should still work on improving the level of your push from BOTH sides.

4) You have to be focused and paying attention when your opponent is getting ready to serve. When he tosses the ball, you should be moving with the toss of the ball so your head and eyes follow the ball up and then down into the racket.

Right now, part of your problem receiving serve is that you are not fully paying attention until after the opponent hits the ball. Watch what the pros do receiving serve. Notice how they get super low before the opponent tosses the ball and as the opponent tosses the ball they come up a little with the toss and then they start moving to where the serve is going a split second after the ball is contacted. That really helps you see where the serve is going and move to it much much earlier.

5) To me, this is the biggest issue. All your strokes need fundamental work from the ground up. Most of the time your strokes are all arm. It happens, but only rarely, that you use your body too. This is perhaps the hardest thing to change. But in my opinion there is good news here too. YOU CAN change this. Some of your problem with your strokes is muscle memory. Some of your problem is tracking and intercepting skills.

Tracking and intercepting skills will improve as you improve your reset and as you practice more. They will. It just takes time and practice but those skills will improve.

What you do when you are not comfortable with the ball placement is you move your racket from behind the ball straight forward towards the ball. It's hard to describe so I made a quick video comparing what I am talking about to an actual stroke:


Again, that will change when your tracking and intercepting skills and your reset improve.

Here is a way to improve your strokes even without coaching and when not on the table:

Forgive the bad film quality but, I did not have access to a better scenario where I am.

These are shadow strokes.


Find yourself a mirror and practice 1000+ BHs and 1000+ FHs shadow strokes in front of that mirror so you can see what you are doing.

1000 should not actually take very long. That is about 15 min on each side if each stroke takes 1 second.

If you do this, 3-4 days a week, for a month, this will actually fix a lot of your problems including stroke mechanics, muscle memory and resetting on topspin strokes.

It won't correct resetting on serves or tracking and intercepting the ball, and it won't improve your push. But you will be amazed how much better you play from before you start to after you do this the first 3-4 times. Your stroke and your contact will be better and your reset will be a decent amount faster without you even thinking about the reset.

If you do these shadow strokes for 15 min on each side 3-4 days a week for a month and don't do anything else to change what you are doing you will thrash that guy. Hahahahaha.

Once you have solid fundamental shadow strokes you can make it more fun by adding footwork to it:






Hope this info helps you.


Sent from Inside The Chamber of Secrets by Patronus
 
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says Spin and more spin.
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BTW: except for the two new videos with the spiffy button up shirt, I have posted all the other videos in several other threads. All these videos were made for specific questions that were asked on the forum. All videos took exactly the amount of time in the video. The videos that have the titles Shadow Footwork Drills 1, 2 and 3, I just had someone point the camera and my instructions were stop and restart every 15 seconds or so. [emoji2]

Now the story for where I got the idea of using shadow strokes and footwork. I've given this before so I will give the short version.

My good friend Alex Pérez, when my technique was severely lacking, told me before he gave me the first lesson he ever gave me, "I can coach you and just take your money. But you will get much more from coaching if you take my advice."

We were about to do an exchange, me fixing his back for him giving me TT lessons. He is a 2500 rated player and an excellent coach.

"My back, it's not so bad. It will get better without your help. Your table tennis: it is much worse than my back!" Hahahahahaha.

"I want you to do shadow strokes in front of a mirror. I want you to do at least 1000 a day, at least 3-4 times before I give you a lesson next week. If you don't do it, I will know. If you do it, I will know. Here is what you do:"

And he proceeded to bring me to a mirror and work until I had what he felt was adequate form for a basic FH and BH counterhit and a basic FH and BH drive.

When I took the lesson with him, he told me he could tell I did what he asked. Truthfully I did much more than he asked. And I still enjoy doing shadow strokes and footwork drills to this day. That stuff makes working out and getting cardio fun for me.

And, without question, I could feel after my first session doing 30 min of FH and 30 min BH shadow strokes, how much of an impact it had on my technique at the table.


Sent from Inside The Chamber of Secrets by Patronus
 
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First of Carl: What the H are you wearing on your feet in clip 3-5?? [emoji15]

;)

I feel sad to read you last post.
The only place I know of today where I can get space enough infront of a mirror is at the gym.. And man O man, the guys over there will mess me upp if I start shadowstepping in there with a tt-blade.. [emoji23]
 
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I don't have a rating. I've been playing for ~1 year but going to the club regularly (once a week) for less. My goal is to be competitive at the club and to get better. I don't have the time to get to like 2000 rating but I would like to get to 1000 maybe over the next year or so.

There is too much information about yourself and context missing. What is your rating/experience level and what are your goals? How long have you been playing for?
 
says Spin and more spin.
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First of Carl: What the H are you wearing on your feet in clip 3-5?? [emoji15]

;)

I feel sad to read you last post.
The only place I know of today where I can get space enough infront of a mirror is at the gym.. And man O man, the guys over there will mess me upp if I start shadowstepping in there with a tt-blade.. [emoji23]

Hahahahahahaha. LOL. OMG.

In the first 3 footwork/stroke videos, that were filmed together, I am wearing HIKING BOOTS. Oh the LULZ.

In the in/out footwork drills, those are glow in the dark Nike Walking shoes. Hahahahaha.

They aren't my TT shoes. But I have actually played plenty in each of those.

Here, look. I'm using the Nike Walking Shoes here too:


That was the night of the last goon squad mission when Der almost killed us by trying to make a no look left on red turn across a two way Avenue with a car bearing down on us from the blind side. Hahaha

BTW: Obviously, in those videos, I am at a gym doing shadow footwork with a racket in my hand. LOL. You can teach those guys a cardio routine that kicks AZZ on treadmill or ladder drills because it involves upper body plus lower body. In fact every guy I know who does boxing workouts instantly says how similar my "cardio routine" is to boxing shadow training drills.

I like to swap to left hand too. It actually helps the right hand improve.


Sent from Inside The Chamber of Secrets by Patronus
 
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I don't have a rating. I've been playing for ~1 year but going to the club regularly (once a week) for less. My goal is to be competitive at the club and to get better. I don't have the time to get to like 2000 rating but I would like to get to 1000 maybe over the next year or so.

There is too much information about yourself and context missing. What is your rating/experience level and what are your goals? How long have you been playing for?
 
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I don't have a rating. I've been playing for ~1 year but going to the club regularly (once a week) for less. My goal is to be competitive at the club and to get better. I don't have the time to get to like 2000 rating but I would like to get to 1000 maybe over the next year or so.

Now if you had posted that before writing anything else, you would have received far more constructive commentary in my opinion. I will return later this evening to post stuff, but table tennis is too technical for you to develop good form by watching others unless you have a decent understanding of what you are watching (only really good athletes even approximate this sometimes). For the time and hours you have put in, as well as the coaching you have received, you are pretty good and about where you are supposed to be. People have written a lot already but I will find time tonight to write about the things you should focus on at your level.
 
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