My trick serve to fool confuse opponent with Backspin and Topspin

[Siva Schopenhauer]

Long time back, I was obsessed with Ma lin Ghost serve and spent hours trying to figure it out. Then, I saw videos where he fooled the opponents with top spin looking like backspin and finished it with flick or cross diagonal forehand. This inspired me to develop my way of working on this technique. It usually works against most players. But, few times I played against 2nd divsion and first division players, they instantly saw what was coming.

What do you think about this seve? How to improve it or change something in a sense to achieve Backspin-topspin serves? Height has always been a problem to work.

 

[Tinykin]

Nice serves.
The first thing the observers here at will say is that they need to see you in a match against the strong players. It may be that your recovery isn't good enough.
Also, the second bounce tends to be very short. Strong players will use that predictable element against you. Try and get the second bounce in the middle-third of your opponent's side of the table. The receiver will then never be sure if the ball will drift long or double-bounce. Too short, and it almost does not matter what spin is on the ball.

 

[Siva Schopenhauer]

Nice serves.
The first thing the observers here at will say is that they need to see you in a match against the strong players. It may be that your recovery isn't good enough.
Also, the second bounce tends to be very short. Strong players will use that predictable element against you. Try and get the second bounce in the middle-third of your opponent's side of the table. The receiver will then never be sure if the ball will drift long or double-bounce. Too short, and it almost does not matter what spin is on the ball.

Hey thanks!

Nice suggestions, I ll try to keep the second ball around the middle of the table. Didn't think about that. Very useful point to note.

I nowadays play only very few times in a month against inexperienced players. Neverthess I ll make a video of me playing very soon.

 

[Boogar]

How do you get pure backspin? I always get backspin with side spin so the ball rolls back to the net but does more of a curve.

 

[Shuki]

The "heavy topspin" look much more like a corkspin serve to me.

 

[bobpuls]

You can better hide it with reverse pendulum serve.

 

[Siva Schopenhauer]

How do you get pure backspin? I always get backspin with side spin so the ball rolls back to the net but does more of a curve.

Actually, to get pure backspin the ball and racket contact should be in Right angles. If the racket is little tilted or during the contact you change the degree of contact to less than 90 deg, you have side spin along with backspin.

I too was suffering from this problem when I started practising, watch the first few backspins, you can now get an idea on it.

If u look the last two topspin balls in the video, I have tilt in the racket while contacting, resulting in side spin.

 

[Siva Schopenhauer]

You can better hide it with reverse pendulum serve.

Didn't try it till now. I ll try soon and share my experience whether it works or not. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Siva Schopenhauer]

The "heavy topspin" look much more like a corkspin serve to me.

Actually it is not a corkspin, But I don't really know how to classify it. The contact for topspin goes like this. I put my racketi into the lower hemisphere of the ball and hook it up.

 

[Boogar]

Actually, to get pure backspin the ball and racket contact should be in Right angles. If the racket is little tilted or during the contact you change the degree of contact to less than 90 deg, you have side spin along with backspin.

I too was suffering from this problem when I started practising, watch the first few backspins, you can now get an idea on it.

If u look the last two topspin balls in the video, I have tilt in the racket while contacting, resulting in side spin.

Hmm jea.. but i get side spin from the curve action of the wrist. Its then more like corkscrew backspin, not side spin. I wrote that the wrong way.

 

[Siva Schopenhauer]

Hmm jea.. but i get side spin from the curve action of the wrist. Its then more like corkscrew backspin, not side spin. I wrote that the wrong way.

Yeah, That happens with wrist action too. I forgot it to bring it in the last post. In life, there are million ways to get it wrong. But, backspin sidespin is very efffective too right?

 

[Raylazyfo]

nice serves the only thing is that the better opponents can see which spin is coming because on the heavy topspin serve you make a fast wrist motion and on the backspin serve you dont
also your back seems to arch more with the topspin serve

 

[Siva Schopenhauer]

nice serves the only thing is that the better opponents can see which spin is coming because on the heavy topspin serve you make a fast wrist motion and on the backspin serve you dont
also your back seems to arch more with the topspin serve

Hey, Nice observations. Lot of good tips man. I ll try to work on the recovery to make the serves look the same.

backspin serve you dont
also your back seems to arch more with the topspin serve

I had no idea that people could observe such intricacies. Seems you are very advanced level compared to me.

 

[Raylazyfo]

No im not advanced at all
youre right but its not that people observe these intricasies its more of a subconcious thing you know?
Of course these are tiny little details and the serves are otherwise awesome!

 

[Kaizoku]

nice serves the only thing is that the better opponents can see which spin is coming because on the heavy topspin serve you make a fast wrist motion and on the backspin serve you dont
also your back seems to arch more with the topspin serve

This is what I thought of too. Make the difference in each serve smaller and you might benefit up to some point.
I personally do think the most deceptive serve is Maharu Yoshimura's special reverse pendulum serve. Even Xu Xin had issues with those for a while.
Edit: I think it seems like the most difficult to read because of how twistedly weird the movement looks for both the spectators and opponent. Meanwhile at the one you use they just need to figure out at which direction your contact point is. [emoji13]

Sent fra min SM-G901F via Tapatalk

 

[Siva Schopenhauer]

No im not advanced at all
youre right but its not that people observe these intricasies its more of a subconcious thing you know?
Of course these are tiny little details and the serves are otherwise awesome!

Yeah, it seems it is lot of subconsious thing. But, what I learned from this thread is each eyes perceives a particular technique in a different way and there is always something fresh and new to observe, learn and correct. Thanks for your suggestion. I appreciate it

 

[Siva Schopenhauer]

This is what I thought of too. Make the difference in each serve smaller and you might benefit up to some point.
I personally do think the most deceptive serve is Maharu Yoshimura's special reverse pendulum serve. Even Xu Xin had issues with those for a while.
Edit: I think it seems like the most difficult to read because of how twistedly weird the movement looks for both the spectators and opponent. Meanwhile at the one you use they just need to figure out at which direction your contact point is. [emoji13]

Sent fra min SM-G901F via Tapatalk

Yeah rightly said, may be I should add some awkward movement too into the recipe. Did you check my serve breakdown on YM serve. What do you think ?

 

[pingpongdingdong]

I think this is a really good video that showcases how pros serve topspin/backspin and make it look similar. The topspin serve is at 0:15 and the backspin serve is at 0:52.

The main difference between Jorgen Persson and most of us is that his deception is extremely good. Essentially, his racket stays vertical for topspin (which is more sidespin with a slight amount of topspin if anything). Straight topspin is harder to make and disguise. For backspin (which is more backspin-sidespin), he makes the bat slightly more horizontal, but it still stays fairly vertical to confuse the opponent. It's a minor variation, but it does change the spin entirely. He is contacting the ball with the bottom of the bat for maximum spin. Also, when you look at the moment of contact, with the sidespin-topspin serve, he is contacting the ball more on the side and not underneath. Once again, it really doesn't look any different, but the serves are entirely different spin.

As I said, most pros serve side-topspin and side-backspin. They can be disguised almost perfectly with subtle variation but have completely different spin. I've seen some other videos of other great servers doing this, like Jan Ove Waldner, Ma Lin and Werner Schlager. Service is all in the subtle variations.

 

[Siva Schopenhauer]

I think this is a really good video that showcases how pros serve topspin/backspin and make it look similar. The topspin serve is at 0:15 and the backspin serve is at 0:52.

The main difference between Jorgen Persson and most of us is that his deception is extremely good. Essentially, his racket stays vertical for topspin (which is more sidespin with a slight amount of topspin if anything). Straight topspin is harder to make and disguise. For backspin (which is more backspin-sidespin), he makes the bat slightly more horizontal, but it still stays fairly vertical to confuse the opponent. It's a minor variation, but it does change the spin entirely. He is contacting the ball with the bottom of the bat for maximum spin. Also, when you look at the moment of contact, with the sidespin-topspin serve, he is contacting the ball more on the side and not underneath. Once again, it really doesn't look any different, but the serves are entirely different spin.

As I said, most pros serve side-topspin and side-backspin. They can be disguised almost perfectly with subtle variation but have completely different spin. I've seen some other videos of other great servers doing this, like Jan Ove Waldner, Ma Lin and Werner Schlager. Service is all in the subtle variations.

Once again, a beautiful video. Ding Ning looks awesome there. I saw this video way long back but my focus at that time was on Ding Ning's Tomahawk. I took a closer look into Jorgen's serve. The topspin was detectable to my eyes but backspin for 9/10 cases, I would misjudge it to be topspin. Even Ding Ning was caught there. One thing which I notice here is Jorgen compromises the backspin serve quality for the deception. Cos, he get a very light contact to drive the ball in reverse direction. But, maybe over years of practice, I guess it does the job well for him. I opiniate the same with Ma lin's serve. Very subtle, partial one but strong enough to make it pop 5 feet above the table.

 

[pingpongdingdong]

Once again, a beautiful video. Ding Ning looks awesome there. I saw this video way long back but my focus at that time was on Ding Ning's Tomahawk. I took a closer look into Jorgen's serve. The topspin was detectable to my eyes but backspin for 9/10 cases, I would misjudge it to be topspin. Even Ding Ning was caught there. One thing which I notice here is Jorgen compromises the backspin serve quality for the deception. Cos, he get a very light contact to drive the ball in reverse direction. But, maybe over years of practice, I guess it does the job well for him. I opiniate the same with Ma lin's serve. Very subtle, partial one but strong enough to make it pop 5 feet above the table.

Yeah, exactly. There's no point in having more backspin if they're going to mistake it for topspin and vice versa.