My Xiom Axelo setup

[Machine_Head]

Just got this new setup today and I had a few hits with my father earlier. It was an interesting experience. This setup is really fast. Almost too fast.

Anybody else have tried this blade?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Carbon plus Hinoki = fast! Have fun with your new weapon. With the DHS rubber hopefully you get used to the speed.


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[NextLevel]

To me, anyone who is using an Axelo or Schlager Carbon etc. has virtually given up on serious table tennis unless they play a very specialized style extremely well. Yes, I know that's not 100% right, but you get my point. Someone who wants to build their overall game should never use such blades.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Let me explain a bit about what NextLevel just said so it doesn't feel like you just got slyrapped upside the head for no good reason! Does anyone still use "slyrap" anymore? Or did I just certify that I was a teenager in the 70s!

So one time I asked these two friends who are pros separately about blades for developing players. These two pros independently gave me the information that, usually somewhere between 2100-2400 (depending on the style of player) a player's fundamentals become solid and when they play someone a few levels higher, their technique won't break down even when they are getting a butt whipping.

Below that level the fundamentals are not fully and completely solid. So for a player at that stage, they told me, it is better to play with a 5 ply, all wood blade that is in the All+ to Off- speed range. They said those kinds of blades will better help you develop and improve your touch, feel, contact, timing, how you get the ball to stay on the rubber a little longer, how much you spin the ball. Both were juniors on the national teams from their respective countries of origin (two different European countries). And both said their coach didn't even give them a choice. They were given a blade and rubbers that would be best for the development of their games.

To the question of whether a friend at my level should get a TB ALC, a TB ZLC or a 5 ply all wood blade, one of them said: "that depends. If he wants to get better he should use a 5 ply all wood blade. But if he just wants to hit the ball fast and that makes him feel good and have fun, then he should just get whatever he wants."

There are so many more reasons why this is the case. A harder, faster carbon blade makes it harder to feel more subtle differences in contact and all your shots go fast as if your contact was good even when it was not so great. When everything feels the same regardless of how you contact the ball it takes much longer for your contact to improve.

With a wooden blade you feel every kind of contact more and you feel subtle differences in contact in a way that actually helps you get better.

The coolest thing about this is that, it happens without you even realizing it. Your brain figures out what the better contact feels like and IT FEELS SO GOOD that you want to do it over and over again.

Let me say that same thing in a different way: a 5 ply, all wood, All+ to Off- speed rated blade with good feel will actually help your spin, your power and your ball quality improve without you even knowing the improvements are happening.

Another part of that formula is that you have to work harder to get the same speed. So built into a slower all wood blade is the reward for completing your stroke and getting your hips and weight transfer into the power of the stroke.

With a fast blade, even if you don't have all that going on, your ball will be fast, sometimes too fast, encouraging you to make less of a stroke to maintain control.

In any case, you may be a very high level player where you can use anything you want. Or you make just be in that category where a blade that fast just is fun to blast the ball with. But if you are lower level than someone who is at a semi-pro level and you want to get better having that rocketship of a blade can still be fun. But a main blade for learning should probably be something moderate speed, all wood and 5 plies. [emoji2]


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[Baal]

I think what Carl wrote is right with some qualifications. What I would add is that older players who have played a long time with a composite that is faster than a five-ply wood can get away with it if they have had some decline in level primarily because they are not moving as fast as the used to. Players like that can still maintain technique with a faster blade when they are getting to the ball, and may in fact hit better shots from off balance than they would with a slower blade. (I am describing myself..... ). If you play with one blade long enough you can learn how to control it even if it is somewhat fast. Also I would add that composite does not always mean faster.

With that said, I think Schlager carbon and Axelo are insane hand cannons that are really hard to play with.

I am fortunate to live in a place with some really good players. I have not seen a single one use a blade in the Schlager Axelo category. Schlager could do it, but he was world champion. It's also probably why thick stiff blades like the Butterfly Moonbean and the Iolite were not adopted by many professional players compared to thinner arylate blades like Keyshot, Viscaria, TBS, TB-ALC, and recent zylon blades.

The last thing I would add is that 40+ balls, which move slower in the air and spin less, may make it possible and even beneficial for people to use slightly faster blades than they did before.

An Axelo is a bit like crack. You will feel invincible doing your forehand counters and loop and block drills. It is exciting. Chances are as soon as you play real games for a week or two you will crash and realize the whole thing was an illusion.

 

[Baal]

One last thing. The entire Xiom Novus Carbon series was really fast. The Ignito was actually more like Schlager Carbon, Axelo is faster.

I have not seen any of the newer Xiom blades.

The Xiom build quality, finish, weight, handle comfort, and balance were always great. They look good too. But for awhile there they were building super fast blades. I was interested in seeing if they made cheaper and better blades to get away from Butterfly. I never found one I really liked, but I think a lot of people will.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Two great posts by Baal. Thanks. I would agree. There are circumstances where a composite blade or a faster blade like a Clipper make sense.

This part:

An Axelo is a bit like crack. You will feel invincible doing your forehand counters and loop and block drills. It is exciting. Chances are as soon as you play real games for a week or two you will crash and realize the whole thing was an illusion.

I had to include that quote. That is worth the price of admission. I love how you word it. That addiction to speed.

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[Machine_Head]

Thanks UpSideDownCarl and Baal for expounding on NextLevel's post. My first blade I got early on my training was a Clipper CR. I did not like it because I could not spin the ball properly and I found it too hard and no dwell time. So I went and got the Infinity and my training got to another level. I learned all the proper stroke with that blade. But as my skills got better, I wanted something faster. After trying a few blades here and there, I settled with the Adidas Accelum Carbon. In a month, my touch improved. My pushes got better, looping against heavy underspin got better.

I cannot recall if the Clipper CR feels harder or softer than the Axelo, but I find the Axelo to have a better dwell time as compared to what I can remember from using the Clipper. I think what faster composite blades are doing to me is it is allowing to learn to have a better, softer, and more sensitive touch. In a way these are my next training tools.

I am a serious table tennis enthusiast but I don't take it too seriously.

OT - Carl, I do not understand what slyrap means..

 

[Baal]

Main thing, Machine Head, is to have fun. No one size fits all either, so you may figure out that thing, especially if you are making sure to work a lot on short game, which is considerably harder with blades like that. I also have no idea what slyrap means.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

OT - Carl, I do not understand what slyrap means..

This is a term from the 1970s. There is another one that actually might still be around today. It is: sucker punch. They mean the same basic thing. When someone is not looking and you hit them. Often it was used for when people were joking around with each other and it was not a real punch. But the term still refers to when you haul off and hit someone as hard as you can while they are not looking. So you are caught by surprise and abused. And in the context I was using it, it would be that you were being surprised and criticized without having any reason to think that would be the outcome of posting a photo of your nice new blade.

 

[NextLevel]

I think what Carl wrote is right with some qualifications. What I would add is that older players who have played a long time with a composite that is faster than a five-ply wood can get away with it if they have had some decline in level primarily because they are not moving as fast as the used to. Players like that can still maintain technique with a faster blade when they are getting to the ball, and may in fact hit better shots from off balance than they would with a slower blade. (I am describing myself..... ). If you play with one blade long enough you can learn how to control it even if it is somewhat fast. Also I would add that composite does not always mean faster.

With that said, I think Schlager carbon and Axelo are insane hand cannons that are really hard to play with.

I am fortunate to live in a place with some really good players. I have not seen a single one use a blade in the Schlager Axelo category. Schlager could do it, but he was world champion. It's also probably why thick stiff blades like the Butterfly Moonbean and the Iolite were not adopted by many professional players compared to thinner arylate blades like Keyshot, Viscaria, TBS, TB-ALC, and recent zylon blades.

The last thing I would add is that 40+ balls, which move slower in the air and spin less, may make it possible and even beneficial for people to use slightly faster blades than they did before.

An Axelo is a bit like crack. You will feel invincible doing your forehand counters and loop and block drills. It is exciting. Chances are as soon as you play real games for a week or two you will crash and realize the whole thing was an illusion.

Yes, composite doesn't always mean faster. Schlager by the way, used a Primorac Carbon. To be honest, I don't consider ALC blades like Viscaria, TBS, TB-ALC, IF ALC etc. to be OFF blades - I actually consider them attempts to recreate the OFF- experience but with less vibration and more long distance kick, things that a pro would like when swinging extremely hard after developing an advanced short game. The main reason I wouldn't recommend them to adult beginners/intermediates without extensive training is that there is less feedback in them. Another issue with the TBS etc. for me has been that I was personally not a fan of Koto as an outer ply - I don't know why but it just seems to be the case and I tried my best to get along with such blades. Hinoki, Anegre, Limba all worked fine - maple, koto, not so much. With the knowledge I have now, I might have gotten along with an IF ALC if I had bought one way back but who knows?

BTW, I had a Killerspin TC, Titanium Carbon, which was relatively controllable. I stopped using it after I realized exactly what you said about practice vs. match play. In practice and against familiar opponents, it was perfect. But when someone unfamiliar hit the ball at me in a match, I didn't read the weight of their ball well enough to control it and I had little margin for error.

I'm giving an ALC blade from Double Day another go. Here is a link to my first session of stroke practice with it this week - I used Big Dipper on both sides because I have been disappointed recently with the control on my over the table strokes and try a fast blade slow rubber combination to see if that would do the trick. Of course, my short game is still a massive work in progress so I expect to be using wood blades in tandem for a while.

BTW, I rebuilt my loop for 4 months with all wood blades - just pointing that out in case someone wants to try this at home. I have bad knees in case someone wants to point out my under-utilization of them.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Your backhand looks SOLID. Good spin from both sides. Good contact. On FH every so often you dig in too much and make it hit contact. But those are solid shots.

Have you ever tried one of those thin 5 ply Hinoki blades (just Hinoki) that are Off-? One of those might be good for your play. They don't feel great when you hit but the feel amazing when you spin the ball and are really good for over the table shots.

 

[NextLevel]

Your backhand looks SOLID. Good spin from both sides. Good contact. On FH every so often you dig in too much and make it hit contact. But those are solid shots.

Have you ever tried one of those thin 5 ply Hinoki blades (just Hinoki) that are Off-? One of those might be good for your play. They don't feel great when you hit but the feel amazing when you spin the ball and are really good for over the table shots.

Thanks for the compliments. Yes, the forehand was the stroke I rebuilt most recently and I try to pound it hard just to see how far I can go with it while still spinning the ball - in my club, the players I am trying to beat don't respect good spin, they abuse it. My backhand, I just can't swing as hard so I always try to get spin controllably there - I would probably approach the same consistency on my forehand if I went at my BH speed. MVD is also an amazing kick blocker so he wreaks more havoc on my timing than you might realize from watching the video.

Never tried a 5 ply hinoki - what kind of blade do you have in mind? I have an Xiom Vega Tour (5 ply Hinoki + 2 SZLC) that I have never really glued up for extensive use because I just doesn't excite me. The only thing I have really given a shot with Hinoki in it was a Rossi Emotion - it's one of my favorite blades of all time, but pure carbon without dampening Arylate always creates a kick when you hit hard that leaves me wondering what happened. The beauty of ALC blades is that when you loop hard, you still feel spin contact.

What I am hoping is that the tackier rubbers I am using will make my over the table drive brush strokes more reliable. MX-S for some reason just doesn't make the ball arc there like I would like to, but Big Dipper is too slow for my Yasaka Extras with my current technique.

 

[NextLevel]

BTW, it also helps put into proper perspective how it feels to hear Pnatchwey lecturing me on how to loop - just saying. Enough thread hijacking .


I try to tell BH-Man at MYTT that I was the original BH-Man. I learned to loop on my BH before my FH. I ran around my BH to use my FH on serve return. I used to get 1-0 leads on 2100+ players who served exclusively to the BH until they realized there had to be a reason I was 1800.

 

[Machine_Head]

Main thing, Machine Head, is to have fun. No one size fits all either, so you may figure out that thing, especially if you are making sure to work a lot on short game, which is considerably harder with blades like that. I also have no idea what slyrap means.

Yes i agree, the main thing is to have fun. My father by the upped the fun factor by gluing a "junk" rubber on his blade. My father is a mild mannered person but since playing with his LP he has trash talked me quite a bit. He gets a kick out of seeing me tire myself out from continiously looping backspin balls.

Thanks Carl for the detailed explanation.

 

[NextLevel]

How old are you, MachineHead, if you don't mind my asking? Just curious.

 

[Machine_Head]

NextLevel, I am 35

 

[NextLevel]

NextLevel, I am 35

Wow, your father must be awesome to be playing with you with LP if it is a recent switch. A bit surprised that you love fast blades so much, but if it fits, go for it. Maybe you are the next Vladimir Samsonov/Georgina Pota.

 

[Machine_Head]

Wow, your father must be awesome to be playing with you with LP if it is a recent switch. A bit surprised that you love fast blades so much, but if it fits, go for it. Maybe you are the next Vladimir Samsonov/Georgina Pota.

My father is turning 69 this year. When we play we mostly just fool around and have fun, nothing serious really. His chops with LP is somehow landing on the table but it is all over the place. I have to constantly chase the ball. It is a fun exercise, you should try it sometime.

It seems fast blades work for me at the moment. I guess it has something to do with my stroke. Also, i think my bad back doesn't allow me to really torque my body so i need all the help i can get.

Nah, im light years away from those guys. I just want to improve and get to the "next level".

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Never tried a 5 ply hinoki - what kind of blade do you have in mind?

Not wanting to hijack the thread but this info is useful.

Hinoki is really interesting wood. I have no idea why they mix it with other woods. It plays way better in a blade that is just Hinoki. Trouble with it is that it has a lot of gears and is super fast if it is thicker. Like most of the 7 ply all Hinoki blades are faster than a TB ALC.

There are a few Hinoki blades that Butterfly made in the 80s and 90s that were 5 plies and really thin (5.4-5.6mm) so flexy. They are interesting. If you are trying to hit with them they feel vanilla and sort of slow. And then when you loop with them you think, "Oh my, this feels amazing," (there is no way I can describe it because it feels different than other woods when you loop; like it almost feels like the wood is made of sponge giving more trampoline, when your contact is just right) and when you loop they are a perfect speed with a ton of control.

The blades I have tried that are like that are the Klampar-H and the Jonyer-H. There is a blade by Darker called 7P-2A that is 7 ply and 6mm that may be like this because it is not too thick. Don't confuse it with the Darker 7P-2A.7t. That one is 7mm thick and definitely too fast.

I have tried the 7P-2A.7t and it feels amazing but is really just too fast for my liking. One day I will get the 7P-2A because it is worth trying. But if you can find one of those old Butterfly blades (those two do not feel like furniture when you loop[emoji2]) it would be worth trying out. Like if you see someone playing with one. For what you have been working on, something like that might actually be a mystical experience. For real!Nothing loops like those blades. And that feeling is definitely addictive.

I think the 7P-2A would be half way between the 5 ply Hinoki blades I am talking about and most of the 7 ply Hinoki blades that are on the market. That is still a theory though.

If you ever want to feel something ridiculous but really (actually) great (just for feeling even though you would never want to play matches with one) those 9-12mm one ply Hinoki blades that penholders from decades ago used to use, those are wild. Problem with them: too fast, to thick for having sponge on both sides, too thick for serving shakehand and the biggest thing: they cost over $200.00 and because it is one ply, the wood just mysteriously splits on the grain at some point. It just happens for no apparent reason. You can't put them in a racket case in a bag. That will cause Instant breakage. But if you ever see someone using one of those, it is worth having a knock. Better crack high than any carbon blade could possible give you.


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