New Equipment -- Budding EJ

[NextLevel]

Hi Nakira,

Thank you for spending time on my quest. I really appreciate it. I am very intrigued by the idea of ElevenVR since it may allow me to introduce my son to Table Tennis also help me develop. Could you please tell me what hardware/ equipment and software I need to get started with elevenVR. I appreciate it in advance

While I didn't start ad old as you, I started in my mid to late 30s, though i was lucky to work with a stronger player/coach who got better as an adult and therefore could give me his own ideas which were different from just be taken through drills as a teenager or child. A lot about equipment will depend on how you intend to play because this is ultimately a ball control sport and your instinct for controlling the ball will be determined by the equipment you are used to. While any equipment can make this a decent player, who you want to play like over time is very important.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

There is not much difference in the swing compared to other rubbers. It’s a little bit slower so you either need to open the angle a little bit or strike a little bit more upwards, but the harder you strike the lesser the difference…

Or use a faster blade..

Cheers
L-zr

The harder you strike the more the difference between ancient relic rubbers and modern offensive ones, though your mention of shoulder problems might imply that you do not reach high impact shots where this difference becomes obvious.

This also explains why high level offensive players invariably use harder rubbers (medium-hard at the minimum) and pro players require harder-than-market-version sheets.

Quality shots matter after a certain level, and the forum/amateur wisdom preaching soft spin and consistency simply doesn't cut it at a certain point.

 

[Tyce]

Hmm following this longer I think I might have a pre-tensor FH style where I rely mostly on upward motion to get a loop.
I struggle with the hitting type of loop, something I definitely need to work on.

 

[NextLevel]

The harder you strike the more the difference between ancient relic rubbers and modern offensive ones, though your mention of shoulder problems might imply that you do not reach high impact shots where this difference becomes obvious.

This also explains why high level offensive players invariably use harder rubbers (medium-hard at the minimum) and pro players require harder-than-market-version sheets.

Quality shots matter after a certain level, and the forum/amateur wisdom preaching soft spin and consistency simply doesn't cut it at a certain point.

I preach soft spin and consistency with am intent to transition to more power and consistency only because I find with adult learners, the problem isn't trying to hit hard, it is how to remain consistent when the hard stuff is missing the table. Those who become enamored with hitting hard early miss all the in-between shots especially when they are not drilling footwork consistently.

All that said, one needs rubber that supports your goals. Mark V does not support that. Driving through the ball with spin needs the right equipment. Even Lebesson who supposedly loved soft rubbers is now using K3.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

I preach soft spin and consistency with am intent to transition to more power and consistency only because I find with adult learners, the problem isn't trying to hit hard, it is how to remain consistent when the hard stuff is missing the table. Those who become enamored with hitting hard early miss all the in-between shots especially when they are not drilling footwork consistently.

All that said, one needs rubber that supports your goals. Mark V does not support that. Driving through the ball with spin needs the right equipment. Even Lebesson who supposedly loved soft rubbers is now using K3.

Yes, my choice of words may not have been precise - it is more about the contact you make not so much literally swinging hard. You can make direct and well timed contact even in a controlled manner when things get out of control, but becoming too addicted to thin brushing and lifting everything is equally harmful down the line.

 

[NextLevel]

Hmm following this longer I think I might have a pre-tensor FH style where I rely mostly on upward motion to get a loop.
I struggle with the hitting type of loop, something I definitely need to work on.

It doesn't stop you from being a good player, it just makes things harder and means you need to spend a lot of time retraining some things depending on how you intend to win and lose points. I switched from all wood blades with spinny control rubbers to faster blades with modern rubbers because I was tired of working so hard to win points while watching people do more with less. I didn't become a much better player (partly because of nagging arthritis) but it definitely made some things easier and others harder and encouraged me to try other stuff again.

 

[Lazer]

So it goes back to how someone intends to play. The point here is that Rozena has better characteristics than Mark V for someone who wants to play modern table tennis. Since you have more limits playing modern table tennis, your position is understandable. But let's not try to paint it as some neutral, universal observation which your continuous argumentation sometimes sounds like it is trying to do.

No it has nothing to do with modern or old fashioned. It is a slower and a little less spinny rubber that’s it…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Tyce]

It doesn't stop you from being a good player, it just makes things harder and means you need to spend a lot of time retraining some things depending on how you intend to win and lose points. I switched from all wood blades with spinny control rubbers to faster blades with modern rubbers because I was tired of working so hard to win points while watching people do more with less. I didn't become a much better player (partly because of nagging arthritis) but it definitely made some things easier and others harder and encouraged me to try other stuff again.

I just bought a simple bot second hand, hope it can be helpful in retraining my basics

 

[Lazer]

The harder you strike the more the difference between ancient relic rubbers and modern offensive ones, though your mention of shoulder problems might imply that you do not reach high impact shots where this difference becomes obvious.

This also explains why high level offensive players invariably use harder rubbers (medium-hard at the minimum) and pro players require harder-than-market-version sheets.

Quality shots matter after a certain level, and the forum/amateur wisdom preaching soft spin and consistency simply doesn't cut it at a certain point.

We are talking about beginners here 🤣🤣🤣.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[ThePongCommenter]

We are talking about beginners here 🤣🤣🤣.

Cheers
L-zr

I'm aware. And we are also talking about how what you do as a beginner translates later down the line.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

No it has nothing to do with modern or old fashioned. It is a slower and a little less spinny rubber that’s it…

Cheers
L-zr

When was the last time you have used Mark V and Rozena for a substantial period of time?

 

[Lazer]

I'm aware. And we are also talking about how what you do as a beginner translates later down the line.

Hah, you can hit exactly the same shots with Mark V as any other rubber (offensive pips in of course). You are just perpetuating an urban myth…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Lazer]

When was the last time you have used Mark V and Rozena for a substantial period of time?

I use Mark V to slow down a blade that is too fast for me, it works excellent. Of course I get less spin but that’s it.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Hah, you can hit exactly the same shots with Mark V as any other rubber (offensive pips in of course). You are just perpetuating an urban myth…

Cheers
L-zr

I am not sure if you are trolling at this point. Why do no Yasaka sponsored players, or really any high level players, use Mark V if this is the case?

I use Mark V to slow down a blade that is too fast for me, it works excellent. Of course I get less spin but that’s it.

Cheers
L-zr

Not sure that answered my question - when was the last time you have used Mark V for a substantial amount of time? Currently?

So why do you get less spin if you can hit all the same shots with it?

 

[piligrim]

When was the last time you have used Mark V and Rozena for a substantial period of time?

He used Mark V 50 years ago. Still under impression how good it was ))

 

[Lazer]

I am not sure if you are trolling at this point. Why do no Yasaka sponsored players use Mark V if this is the case?



Not sure that answered my question - when was the last time you have used Mark V for a substantial amount of time? Currently?
So why do you get less spin if you can hit all the same shots with it?

🤣🤣🤣Because it is a beginners grade rubber.

Why I get less spin, You don’t understand this?

I am playing in the largest club in my country. Jan-Ove Waldner and Mikael Appelgren are trainers here. And guess what my club recommend to beginners if you ask…
Appelgren allplay with Mark V.

I don’t use it substantially but enough. A lot of the players uses Mark V u to an intermediate level and it works fine for them too…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[NextLevel]

No it has nothing to do with modern or old fashioned. It is a slower and a little less spinny rubber that’s it…

Cheers
L-zr

You have a right to your opinion, just as I have a right to mine. IT is not just slower and spinnier, it lacks the structure in terms of sponge and topsheet elasticity that most topspin players require for the modern game so you can send the ball in the direction of your topspin. You can be slower and spinnier like say Glayzer or Rozena and have that character. Mark V lacks it.

You can declare your opinion one last time, but I am pretty sure I will disagree with it but I will not respond. Thank you.

 

[NextLevel]

I just bought a simple bot second hand, hope it can be helpful in retraining my basics

Bots have massive limitations, but if it is the best you can do, it is what it is. Better than nothing in the worst case, but often still worse than a reasonable amateur feeding multiball,

 

[Lazer]

You have a right to your opinion, just as I have a right to mine. IT is not just slower and spinnier, it lacks the structure in terms of sponge and topsheet elasticity that most topspin players require for the modern game so you can send the ball in the direction of your topspin. You can be slower and spinnier like say Glayzer or Rozena and have that character. Mark V lacks it.

You can declare your opinion one last time, but I am pretty sure I will disagree with it but I will not respond. Thank you.

You don’t have those requirements until you reach a certain level and you can still do the same shots but with s less lethal result. You can’t win a game if you can’t put the ball on the table…

Cheers
L-R

 

[NextLevel]

You don’t have those requirements until you reach a certain level and you can still do the same shots but with s less lethal result. You can’t win a game if you can’t put the ball on the table…

Cheers
L-R

Not quite true, but we are just running around in circles at this point.