Pips in V/S pips out

[azlan]

It is true that pips out rubber has many disadvantages, but the on the last paragragh... "Imagine taking part in an F1 race with a 'street' sports car... and winning: You wouldn't be called cheater: you would be called HERO".

I just love that!! How can that be cheating....

 

[Mr. RicharD]

I'd like to know when it became about cheating? Long Pips have never been about cheating as long as the rubber itself is of legal use in TT. The legality had nothing to do with this argument as I remember it. What I was trying to point out and failed to communicate as well as I could have was that Pips take a very unique type of skill and in general require less skill as a broad base than inverted. As most LP rubbers are limited to what they can and cannot do Inverted rubbers are capable of doing the full wide range of shots. Thus by definition of skill require less skill because a LP user would plateau being unable to perform a type of shot that the inverted can. Also because LP players typically have a less standard of technique other than the few LP pro's out there it isn't as teachable which also makes it plateau.

Inverted rubbers also typically provide a more entertaining game excluding modern choppers who provide great entertainment. The LP users who prefer to chop block or in general slow down the game cause the sport to stagnate as far as the demograph that will enjoy watching it via internet or spectatorship.

 

[azlan]

I'd like to know when it became about cheating? Long Pips have never been about cheating as long as the rubber itself is of legal use in TT. The legality had nothing to do with this argument as I remember it. What I was trying to point out and failed to communicate as well as I could have was that Pips take a very unique type of skill and in general require less skill as a broad base than inverted. As most LP rubbers are limited to what they can and cannot do Inverted rubbers are capable of doing the full wide range of shots. Thus by definition of skill require less skill because a LP user would plateau being unable to perform a type of shot that the inverted can. Also because LP players typically have a less standard of technique other than the few LP pro's out there it isn't as teachable which also makes it plateau.

Inverted rubbers also typically provide a more entertaining game excluding modern choppers who provide great entertainment. The LP users who prefer to chop block or in general slow down the game cause the sport to stagnate as far as the demograph that will enjoy watching it via internet or spectatorship.

Dude, what I posted wasn't about what you said or the post. That didn't even crossed my mind. rather than posting it on a new thread, I just squeezed the post here since we are discussing about pips out rubbers anyway. It's just something that I wanted to share with everyone here..that's all. After nearly 30 years playing competitive TT I still find it educational and fascinating.

 

[YosuaYosan]

It is true that pips out rubber has many disadvantages, but the on the last paragragh... "Imagine taking part in an F1 race with a 'street' sports car... and winning: You wouldn't be called cheater: you would be called HERO".

I just love that!! How can that be cheating....

The time I read that article a few months ago, Sir, it also stabs my heart in one side and makes me keep going on the other haha
One side of me said that it is stupid to join an F1 race with a sport car, in the other side I always inclined to be a better man by doing things the hard way
Long pips suits me much too haha.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Haha Sir, it kinda revolves around the idea to rebuke the mindset that pips player = cheaters though.

And it does explain ways in which you need to develop techniques to play with pips and how, at a certain point, it is really, actually like giving yourself a handicap to have to overcome.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

On About.com Greg Letts gives some good information about Long Pips and Anti-Spin. He give info on how to use them, how they work, how to play with them, how to play against them. Here is one of the pages:

http://tabletennis.about.com/od/longpimples/a/whatwhylongpips.htm

There are several and it is worth the read for anyone who is not sure how to handle deceptive rubbers.

 

[azlan]

Cheers Carl...nice one.

 

[YosuaYosan]

Sir Gregg's articles are quality, thanks for the link Sir Carl.
Check out his other articles too

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I love the amount of information Gregg Letts gives. Especially when I was first getting started I learned a lot about table tennis, equipment and equipment care from reading the articles on About.com.

 

[YosuaYosan]

I love the amount of information Gregg Letts gives. Especially when I was first getting started I learned a lot about table tennis, equipment and equipment care from reading the articles on About.com.

The same here, Sir.
Guess how many table tennis player have Sir Gregg helped until now. Amazing

 

[Bryce]

I hate playing against long/medium pips player. Very annoying in doubles...

 

[azlan]

I hate playing against long/medium pips player. Very annoying in doubles...

hahaha it is frustrating when your partner is trying to win every shots, heavy topspin and you ended up paying for it. Or shot chop balls, and the pips player just lift and fast push it to the opposite side of the table

 

[YosuaYosan]

I hate playing against long/medium pips player. Very annoying in doubles...

If the next ball you hit will go to the darksider, just fast push it so your partner could loop the next ball.
Ask your partner to do the same and voila Easy win.

 

[Der_Echte]

Hah.. I should send this thread to OOAKForum to see what they would say
Anyways, I have my own thoughts about pips, everyone also has..

In training with a fellow inexperienced junior, I always twiddle to inverted or play with them with my inverted so I won't destroy their feel of the game. Nuff said.
For those people who don't understand, at any risk, I will tell them how to play against pips..

Haha, please do. It would be a riot. I am only a slightly prominant member of that "Pips" TT forum, although I am a 2x inverted attacking style player. Players should be allowed to play with their LPs or Sps, even if they are slippery.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Dude, what I posted wasn't about what you said or the post. That didn't even crossed my mind. rather than posting it on a new thread, I just squeezed the post here since we are discussing about pips out rubbers anyway. It's just something that I wanted to share with everyone here..that's all. After nearly 30 years playing competitive TT I still find it educational and fascinating.

Short and sweet, but great post Azlan. It does seem like some people think all comments that are just comments to enhance the thread are directed at them personally. That is not always the case.

One thing that also seems to be left out by people who are talking about Long Pips requiring less technique might be that, a Long Pips player, at least if he/she wants to continue to improve, has to work on technique with the side of the bat that has smooth rubber too. And ideally that would mean, being able to develop and improve all shots with the Long Pips rubber on both the forehand and the backhand and the all shots with the smooth rubber on both the forehand and the backhand.

Kazuyuki Yokoyama, a local pro who is a chopper, was asked how he decided to become a Long Pips chopper and his answer was, when he was on the regional team he was on in Japan, he was the third best looper on the team and the coach told him they needed to have a chopper for the team to keep improving. The coach asked if he was willing to take it up and learn, and he has never looked back. He is darn good at all shots with either rubber from either side. You could think of it as learning two ways to play. So you need to learn all the technique a smooth player would learn and then all the technique that is available for the Long Pips.

Now this specific post is only talking about Long Pips. But I have not forgotten that there are different techniques for Short Pips and Anti-Spin and that this thread has discussed all three to some extent.

 

[YosuaYosan]

Haha, please do. It would be a riot. I am only a slightly prominant member of that "Pips" TT forum, although I am a 2x inverted attacking style player. Players should be allowed to play with their LPs or Sps, even if they are slippery.

There was a riot there sir Der_Echte
I made the thread and sir Haggisv has locked it. I feel bad now X(

The title is : Lightsider's View of a Darksider's Equipment

 

[Mr. RicharD]

See Azlan has it ridiculously hard. He had to go from rubber to rubber advancement, ball size change, best of 5 21 point system to best of 5 11 point system, hidden service to open service, best of 5 to best of 7. speed glue to non speed glue, booster to no voc booster, and now he'll have to go from celluloid to pvc. Not in any specific order, but seriously it's no wonder you find it so fascinating cuz the sport has changed drastically. And that's just the sport not to mention the wood to carbon to zylon equipment changes. That's just ridiculous. I don't think even a handful of the rest of us could compare to the changes you've endured.

 

[YosuaYosan]

There was a riot there sir Der_Echte
I made the thread and sir Haggisv has locked it. I feel bad now X(

The title is : Lightsider's View of a Darksider's Equipment

Oh but dang it was my most successful thread there haha.
Only in a week + 1 day it got 140 replies and thousands of view XP

http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17589

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Oh but dang it was my most successful thread there haha.
Only in a week + 1 day it got 140 replies and thousands of view XP

http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17589

I did not get to read all of it yet, but it sounds like they were having a good discussion on the subject.

 

[azlan]

See Azlan has it ridiculously hard. He had to go from rubber to rubber advancement, ball size change, best of 5 21 point system to best of 5 11 point system, hidden service to open service, best of 5 to best of 7. speed glue to non speed glue, booster to no voc booster, and now he'll have to go from celluloid to pvc. Not in any specific order, but seriously it's no wonder you find it so fascinating cuz the sport has changed drastically. And that's just the sport not to mention the wood to carbon to zylon equipment changes. That's just ridiculous. I don't think even a handful of the rest of us could compare to the changes you've endured.

That is true Richard, the game had change in so many aspects. And believe it will continue to evolve. The hardest for me was the 21-5games to 11-7games point system and the ball size. With the 21 points, I could serve 5 times and my coach Li Furong used to put hours on end for our service trainings..at least 800-1000 balls at at a time. Service was that important back then. And with the 40mm balls, initially we had a lot of problems putting big spins on the ball, even though I was using Super Sriver and Sriver back then. And we had to un-learn the hidden serve.

It was indeed educational..even for some of us who were national players.