Rainer87 matchvideo

[strangeloop]

Good to see you practice.. Even I feel like practising now but I am out of town.. Have to wait till Monday. :-(

 

[Der_Echte]

Rainer, look again at your BH opener / FH crosscourt loopkill drill vid again. Look at the combos you landed, and then look at what is the saem throughout. You will see that after teh opener, you were at least slightly crouched, moved one step well, then did a very forward stroke hitting the ball near top of bounce.

Take a look at the FHs you missed, but moved well to the spot. Every time you missed, you were swinging upwards too much. Often, the racket started way too low. Often, you were too upright.

To make an opener vs underspin and to make a FH finish from the resulting block are two entirely different shots and require different swing planes, timing, and bat angle. You understand well the required swing and bat angle to open vs underspin. just about everyone does. What many do wrong is to use a similar stroke for the incoming ball from hte block which often carries light topspin. if you start too low or do not get back down, you will often miss. What many do wrong is drop the hitting shoulder and drop teh bat too much. it is important to rotate the shoulders and waist. Keeping the bat at net height after the loop is a good way to force the body to rotate shoulders and waist. Do not drop the shoulder. Also, do not hit the ball too far in front, it is out of strike zone and an easy way to hit the ball too high. Let the ball come to you a little more in that case.

 

[Rainer87]

Hi again!

Season just started and beginning of it has been with ups and downs for me, mostly with ups . I have been training all summer 3 times a week, I have learned one new serve (reverse), what I use in a game now well, not very often thou because of mistakes. I will post two videos, first one is my best win ever, maybe you cant see it in the video but my first opponent is a lot better player (EST RANK 94) than I am, he just made a lot of easy mistakes and I didnt. Second player is even better, EST RANK 48. I am ranked 221. I am wearing green in these matches. I know I havent improved a lot, but still would like to hear hat other have got to say. Thanks in front for your comments!
Best win by ranking:

Highlights:

Second video:

Highlights:

 

[Der_Echte]

Only had time to look at 1st vid.

I will keep it real short.

Look again at the openers you missed. Many times, you either were hitting out of zone, lifting your arm, or were leaning back, bad balance. Look at the times you made 2nd attacks. The ones that either won to the point or setup the easy finish... you stayed closer to the table (1/2 to 1 step) and were moving forward at to impact the ball when it was on top of bounce or on the rise. That is how you pressure an opponent.

You also made a number of points making a spinny loop deep on the endline at your opponent. A spinny loop deep to the body or BH is a very under-rated shot that if one can use it more will lead to easy points.

 

[strangeloop]

Hi Rainer.. back after a lot of practice, heh? Good... Congrats on defeating a Top 100 player.

1. You are dropping back after each attack. Shouldn't it be your opponent? Stay close to the table. Maybe hit a little slower and recover faster.
2. I like your BH opening. But you try too many BH. I have the same problem whenever I focus too much on BH during practice. Tell yourself in a match that you will turn and attack with FH after your opening BH. Maybe add a little sidespin so that you can turn rest assured that the block will come back to you.
3. You do not have a reliable FH push. In the 1st match, you pushed a few times from FH when the ball was long and even when it landed, I was not convinced you can play a FH push consistently or comfortably. Try to loop the long balls. Your loop is better.
4. In the 2nd match, your opponent was always ready on his BH. He seems to cover too much with his BH. With such players, play more to the FH corner. Push him out of his comfort zone. You gave him too many balls mid-table and he used it to push you to your wide FH.
5. A fast flat/counterchop serve would help. Down the line or to BH corner, it would have been your point. He stands mid table when receiving with his grip favoring BH. It will force him to turn his arm around and move to play a FH, reach out to the backhand corner and center the ball. Neither of this is easy.
6. Don't rely too much on BH. I know it wins you a lot of points. But once you start attacking with FH in a rally, never play BH unless you are forced to. Try to play middle line balls with FH.
7. You could push and see if your opponent has a good loop. Looks like your 2nd opponent is a blocker and does not like to initiate attacks with his FH. Use that to your advantage. You don't have to attack all the time. Look to exploit his weaknesses/preferences.
8. I think he is also not poor at moving in to his wide FH and then covering his BH corner especially because of his stance. A short cut serve to wide FH followed by a deep push to his BH would have setup the point nicely.

I am probably wrong with some observations.. Take what suits your game and try it out.. Good luck and keep practising!

 

[Rainer87]

Hi Strangeloop!

1. You are dropping back after each attack. Shouldn't it be your opponent? Stay close to the table. Maybe hit a little slower and recover faster.
Actually this was one of the first things I noticed too. I know I should stay close to the table, but when ever I see that my opponent is gone attack, then I will get afraid his/hers attack and step back, I know I should do this, I should relay on my reflexes near to the table.
2. I like your BH opening. But you try too many BH. I have the same problem whenever I focus too much on BH during practice. Tell yourself in a match that you will turn and attack with FH after your opening BH. Maybe add a little sidespin so that you can turn rest assured that the block will come back to you.
This must be because I have been training my BH a lot lately and my stance has become m BH orienteted, I must change this, Der_Echte has told me this before.
3. You do not have a reliable FH push. In the 1st match, you pushed a few times from FH when the ball was long and even when it landed, I was not convinced you can play a FH push consistently or comfortably. Try to loop the long balls. Your loop is better.
Yes, you are right again, my pushing game is very pure, it looks weird as well.
4. In the 2nd match, your opponent was always ready on his BH. He seems to cover too much with his BH. With such players, play more to the FH corner. Push him out of his comfort zone. You gave him too many balls mid-table and he used it to push you to your wide FH.
Also true about hitting too much to his middle. I must say that he is very quick and can counterloop and hit from his FH and hit from BH side. I have won sets against him only in training matches and then win points mostly with powerloops and hits, he is very controled player, very good at directing balls to corners and hitting to the corners as well. It will take many years of practice before I can beat him in traingmatch, he is better than he looks.
5. A fast flat/counterchop serve would help. Down the line or to BH corner, it would have been your point. He stands mid table when receiving with his grip favoring BH. It will force him to turn his arm around and move to play a FH, reach out to the backhand corner and center the ball. Neither of this is easy.
I am not sure about that, you can never win easy point against him, my serves are too soft against him. I have found him most vulnerable against my short serve to FH, but I dont execute it consistently enough, it goes long way too often.
6. Don't rely too much on BH. I know it wins you a lot of points. But once you start attacking with FH in a rally, never play BH unless you are forced to. Try to play middle line balls with FH.
Very true, just yesterday my training partner said exactly the same thing. I will try to work with my FH more.
7. You could push and see if your opponent has a good loop. Looks like your 2nd opponent is a blocker and does not like to initiate attacks with his FH. Use that to your advantage. You don't have to attack all the time. Look to exploit his weaknesses/preferences.
Maybe you are right, maybe not. I made a task for myself early this year that I must be the first one who will start attacking because I am way better at attacking than defending. I decided that I must attack all the long serves, push back only short ones. Block with my BH, but try to counterattack with FH. If my attacking game is good then I can win very easily players who are at the same level I am and also with luck win players way better than I am. If my attacking game is pure I can loose to way lower level players, because they start relaying on my mistakes and steal the win.
8. I think he is also not poor at moving in to his wide FH and then covering his BH corner especially because of his stance. A short cut serve to wide FH followed by a deep push to his BH would have setup the point nicely.
Very true, like I mentioned before short serve to his FH his weakness. I think I served there way too little. After his recieve I would have attacked for sure, I am attacker, long push can lead to his attack and he can attack everything from every where, believe me .

Thanks alot for your comment, most of them were spot on.

 

[Rainer87]

Only had time to look at 1st vid.

I will keep it real short.

Look again at the openers you missed. Many times, you either were hitting out of zone, lifting your arm, or were leaning back, bad balance. Look at the times you made 2nd attacks. The ones that either won to the point or setup the easy finish... you stayed closer to the table (1/2 to 1 step) and were moving forward at to impact the ball when it was on top of bounce or on the rise. That is how you pressure an opponent.

You also made a number of points making a spinny loop deep on the endline at your opponent. A spinny loop deep to the body or BH is a very under-rated shot that if one can use it more will lead to easy points.

Hi Der_Echte!

Yes, I think leaning back makes me miss a lot FH loops against underspin balls, at first I thought was my 1 year old rubber, but after changing my stroke more forward yesterday I got most of them on the table, so rubber is ok . I step back way too often, I am afraid that I dont have good enough reaction time near to the table in case my opponent is gone attack back and then just in case I will step back, so i would have more time. I quess this is very wrong move.

Yes, my spinny deep loops to his FH were very effective, I was lucky get some of them right to his FH corner.

Dont you see problem that I drag my right leg infront with my FH loop. Shouldnt I rotate my hips more and try to keep my legs on the ground. I have been working hard on that, but my hips are like rocks, they dont want to move, I need some salsa lessons

 

[Der_Echte]

Rainer87, you can still make an effective loop from mid-distance that way. There is no ONE correct forehand topspins, there are many effective forehand topsins in Table Tennis. Still, having an abilty to rotate teh body well will help control and recovery. Yiou will get a LOT better with that if you train enough with a pgood coach. You have larger problems with your game than your hips or leg. You have to decide whether to step around after the BH opener. Many times, it wins the point, but if it comes back at your body or FH, you are screwed right now. When you decide to continue the attack with a FH and move forward (also keep the shoulders level) you were very sucessful in pressuring your opponent or winning the point outright. Sometimes, it is OK to take a step back if it helps your control. Most of the time, the reason to take one step back is to match the ball coming in. You must be with a certain depth, forward or back to properly meet the incoming ball. When your opponent did NOT give you a topspin and you were a step or more back, you reached and paid a huge price for it. Those cases, you need to understand your opponets and be at teh right depth to handle their shots. if you always stay at the table, they will jam you with deep balls and if they see you always stepping back, they will take away topspin and paralyze you. You already have enough tools to defeat both these opponents over 70%, you just need to put them together in combinations, strategy, and tactics. These oponnents were not punishing every high serve or short serve, so you can rely on your opening or counter-defense. You BH is spinny, so you can profit form making a habit to step around often and be ready to finish the point with your much more dynamic FH power shot. Still, you can make a second BH to finish if you stay put and on balance. I often do that and it wins point. However, if your Fh is much more powerful, why not be ready to use it to finush the point. A FH power topsin hit from a ready position is much higher percentage than a BH vs a ball you are not sure of its inconing location. The FH topsin is much easier to make a quality power shot in that situation. Why not use it more? Why? It is becuase you are not accustomed to using the BH, taying on balance, then pivoting your legs/hips to be in a FH ready position on your FH side. You do that more in practice and a year or so later, it will show positive in your match performance. It does not come right away, in fact, you drop in match performance trying to use it the first 6 months or so.

 

[Der_Echte]

Maybe a short checklist is in order.

- Did I commit to making a FH topspin to win most of my points?

- Did I get into a FH ready position after my opener, whether it was BH or FH?

- Did I try to attack first?

- Did I make a serve that gave me a ball to attack first with a high percentage?

- Did I limit my opponet's options on serve receive and make a chance to attack first?

- Did I give my opponent balls to attack that were either low percentage or forced him to attack with less power or to a predictable spot.

- Did I move forward towards the bal to attack the blocks from my opener?

- Did I stay on balance before and after the opening topspin shot?

- Did I do a good job of predicting where the opponent blocked my shot?

- Did I make my openers to an uncomfortable location to my opponent?

- Did I land the FH topspins I should land and keep my confidence in the match?

- Did I do any of these things when the game or match was close?

 

[Rainer87]

You are right about becoming more aggressive with FH rather than BH. My BH is good, but still FH is better at finishing. I need to adjust my stance to more FH oriented style, keeping my right leg behind and left in front. I know you have mentioned this to me before, but without a coach who would remind me this all the time, it is not that easy. I must take it as my next biggest goal so I wouldn’t forget about it in practice and in competition. It is actually harder than it is, mostly because the way I have used to play so far. I guess for brighter future I must take this step even if I drop my performance a bit, but I will benefit from that later on so much more.

I am not very good at reading game jet, especially depth of the ball, most of the time I find myself too behind and I can’t reach ball well enough for correct stroke. I guess I standing in my matches little bit too near to the table, maybe I should be like a foot more behind, so I would have enough time to react for long serves and also wouldn’t be too far for receiving short serves.

You did also make a very good checklist, do some I can answer YES, but unfortunate I must say NO to most of them.

I don’t have coach of my own in real, but I would like to think that I have coach in Internet, thanks again for your time. I try to put it all in action on Tuesday in my next training session. I have a month to prepare for my next competition, I will record my matches and we will see how I will do over there. But like you said it will take long time to adjust, so I wouldn’t expect big changes my self as well before one a half year or so.

 

[Rainer87]

Hi Der_Echte! Bh-Man from mytabletennis.net sends you greetings, also he said he would destroy you in a match. Big words from a big guy, are you up for the challenge?

Anyway, here is a few vids from last night. We had long warmup with FH and BH counterhits, topspin vs block and also topspin vs topspin. After one hour of warmup we started doing BH-FH drills, here are some vids of that.

Later we tried BH-FH-FH drill what was way more difficult, I will post videos of that later.

 

[strangeloop]

Hey Rainer! Hope you're kidding abt the comment from BH-man on mytabletennis.net

Sorry I am not able to watch your videos now... some issues with my browser plugins.. Maybe later in the evening..

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Just something quick I notice. Both you and your training partner are doing many things well. But I notice your recoil time, both of you, needs some work. Meelis's stroke is a little too long and even though he is very consistent in getting that first forehand in, if it comes back he is reacting from a compromised position because he is not setting for the next ball until after it is coming back. You get set a little quicker than he does but it is still a little to late and his late reactions seem to be a little faster than yours. This might also be because, when you give him his forehand shot back, your placement is consistent and predictable (good for the drill) so even though he is not ready when the ball is coming back, he knows where it is going. When he is giving you the ball back after your first forehand, neither of you really know where the ball is going and it never goes to the same place twice.

But, the issue for both of you starts with the fact that your recoil is way too slow. This makes it really hard to have good footwork and so you are both taking a lot of balls from out of position. Meelis is not starting to get ready until the ball is almost at the net coming back. You are not ready until after Meelis makes contact and the ball is already coming back to you. For both of you, it affects your forehand more than your backhand because the forehand is a bigger swing but for both of you the stroke on the backhand is very long and the recoil is still pretty late.

You need to work on getting back to a set position way earlier. Ideally you should be set as your shot is hitting the table on your opponent's side, so you can watch the contact of the opponent's racket with the ball and see where they are going before the ball is coming back to you (as they make contact, not before they make contact, before they make contact you can be fooled). You guys are close to the table on those first strokes. If the strokes are shorter and your recoil makes you ready as your ball bounces on your opponent's side, then you will be able to watch for where the ball is going.

For both of you, your arm is stuck at the follow-through position until you realize that the ball is coming back. And then you try and move very fast to where you think the ball will go but it is already too late. Part of the success Meelis has after you return his forehand shot has to do with the fact that you put it where you want. When you are the server and Meelis is putting your first forehand shot back, sometimes it is deep to the forehand, sometimes it is in the middle, sometimes it is at your backhand. So there are times were you are moving towards the forehand side and the ball hits you in the body. If you were set before he hit the ball you would see where it was going rather than trying to guess and hope it goes where it should.

Try two similar drills with a random element.

With the first drill, keep the serve, the first push and the first attack from the backhand the same and then make the the blocker's return of the backhand attack random so it can be anywhere on the table and the server's job is to see where it is going and move to it with the forehand (even if the return is deep to the backhand side). To get that forehand when you don't know where the ball will go until it is hit, you must get yourself back into a set position before your opponent makes his return.

With the second drill, try the same drill you are doing up to the first forehand topspin, then, have the return after the first forehand topspin be random, so it can be anywhere on the table. Then play that point out as you would a regular point in a match. If the ball could be going anywhere on the table, to be able to field the return after the first forehand topspin, you have to be set before the ball reaches your opponent's racket so you can see where he hits it, watching the racket angle, the stroke and the contact of the ball.

Both of you have very decent strokes and are doing many things well. Shortening those strokes and speeding up your recoil will help the two of you considerably. When you are farther from the table a longer stroke is okay. But close to the table, you need to get ready much faster.

 

[Rainer87]

Thanks a million Carl!

After reading your post and watching my video again I see what you mean. After finishing FH stroke I leave my hand infront and only when I see ball coming back I start moving my hand back as well. I should recoil straight after the stoke you said. I must work hard on this to gain better consistency with my FH.

About blocking then I think Meelis shouldnt move away from the table after first block, he should stay close to the table. I have been working on staying close to the table and also on my blocking game. I focus on blocking early of the bounce and making small forward movement with wrist. I am fairly satisfied what I see.

I will try out those drills as well. I will keep you guy up to date with videos after every now and then.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Thanks a million Carl!After reading your post and watching my video again I see what you mean. After finishing FH stroke I leave my hand infront and only when I see ball coming back I start moving my hand back as well. I should recoil straight after the stoke you said. I must work hard on this to gain better consistency with my FH. About blocking then I think Meelis shouldnt move away from the table after first block, he should stay close to the table. I have been working on staying close to the table and also on my blocking game. I focus on blocking early of the bounce and making small forward movement with wrist. I am fairly satisfied what I see.I will try out those drills as well. I will keep you guy up to date with videos after every now and then.

Good deal. Yes, your blocks are good.

And yes, think of the recoil as part of the stroke. You are not really done with the stroke till you are in the ready position. And also, it helps knowing that the reason you are having more trouble after your forehand topspin is done, has something to do with your recoil but also something to do with the fact that when you are being fed, you never know where the ball is going and when you are feeding the ball, Meelis could seem more consistent, but that is because your blocks are more consistent and accurate so he knows where they are going. You both do many things well and are good training partners working together. Keep up the good work.

In working on recoil, it helps to have a coach, or a decently high level player show you how they do it. What I was shown is that after the weight transfer (foreward), you have to get the weight back onto the back foot, and as you do that, you use that to get the racket back faster. But that means you have to follow through, finish your stroke, but not leave your weight moving forward, but instead get your weight back as fast as you can by pushing your front foot into the ground to weight transfer back, and as you do that, you bring the racket back as well. Once you are set in the ready position, if you are set before the ball reaches your opponent's racket, it is much easier to see where the ball will go and move there. But there is a technique to doing the stroke and recoiling so that you are ready that it is better to learn from someone who is expert at it. Words written on a page cannot do it justice.

 

[Rainer87]

Good to hear that my BH block is ok.

I will pay more atention on recoiling my strokes earlier. I find myself being late for next shot quite often.
When doing drills and playing matches I often found myself being late for next shot, I didnt understand what I was doing wrong, now I know the reason.

There will be a lot of higher rated players in gym today who have proper tabletennis backround, I will ask them to watch my strokes and give me some pointers about it as well.

Thank again!

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Good to hear that my BH block is ok.

I will pay more atention on recoiling my strokes earlier. I find myself being late for next shot quite often.
When doing drills and playing matches I often found myself being late for next shot, I didnt understand what I was doing wrong, now I know the reason.

There will be a lot of higher rated players in gym today who have proper tabletennis backround, I will ask them to watch my strokes and give me some pointers about it as well.

Thank again!

Cool. Just ask one of them to show you how they recoil and get set for the next shot. Have them demonstrate in shadow stroke. Then watch them do it while hitting. Then practice it a few times with shadow stroke. Trying to do it with the ball there is harder if you have not tried to rehearse it with a shadow stroke first. Really, everything else your doing will fall into place if you get this.

 

[Der_Echte]

Yeah Rainer, BH-Man over at MyTT is starting to become a real troublemaker over there and talks entirely too much trash for such a new player to the sport. We must put an end to his big mouth. Heck, he is even trying to advise Rainer how to play the sport. What does this joker thinks he knows? Tell BH-Man he can take the train up here and step into my club, but he had better be wearing his military body Armour, because I will blast 40 MM holes and ventilate him proper. BH-Man hasn't seen Der_Echte in action and would probably get intimidated if he ever watched his latest vids on youtube smashing away vs a div 3 defender. BH-Man isn't the only foreign dude in Korea trying to play TT...

 

[strangeloop]

Hey Rainer.. Good job man! You're playing good. Like Carl said, you have to recover faster. But then don't we all have that problem? Keep practising the right things and you will improve.. Even I have the same problem as you. After a FH loop, if the block comes to my BH, I hurry and try to hit it inside the table. I am not calmly allowing the ball to come. But I am working on it and hope I'll improve. It's good to have someone around who is also striving to improve. Keep it up!

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Like Carl said, you have to recover faster. But then don't we all have that problem?

Too true. I have been working on this for a while. It is hard and takes practice to get the recoil as fast or faster than the stroke so you are in a position to see where the ball will go before it gets to your opponent. And guys I play with who are at a higher level are consistently telling me I have to recover faster in spite of really trying to work on this.