Reverse Pendelum Serve vs Hook Serve

[IB66]

 

[latej]

 

[lodro]

Watch Ma Jinbao from the US. He uses reverse pendulum like 98% of the time. No kidding. And he almost always serves to the opponent's forehand to start a match and exploit the opponent's weakness from there on.

Just YouTube his name.

i just watched this match, well, not the whole match just the serves and then found the need to watch it in slowmo and well. I'll be f@%ed it has nothing to do with the reverse pendulum that I do , his is actually a BH serve , mine is FH . So what is the name of my FH reverse pendulum serve ???? Or is it just my brain again ?????

Jinbao Ma vs Kao Cheng-Jui​

 

[joshmak10]

For me, I can create more spin with a RP than a hook. Also harder for my opponents to receive my RP than my Hook

 

[dingyibvs]

i just watched this match, well, not the whole match just the serves and then found the need to watch it in slowmo and well. I'll be f@%ed it has nothing to do with the reverse pendulum that I do , his is actually a BH serve , mine is FH . So what is the name of my FH reverse pendulum serve ???? Or is it just my brain again ?????

Jinbao Ma vs Kao Cheng-Jui​

Huh? He definitely uses his FH side to serve his reverse pendulum, as does everyone else.

 

[dingyibvs]

For me, I can create more spin with a RP than a hook. Also harder for my opponents to receive my RP than my Hook

Yeah, RP can generate more spin due to the wrist action, but hook can be harder to read.

 

[lodro]

Huh? He definitely uses his FH side to serve his reverse pendulum, as does everyone else.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...svrHukeSHAxVXzDgGHT_OEIAQwqsBegQIFBAG&usg=AOI admitvVaw0Wl2sMSkSUGQc2FW3aDaw9
I admit that i am half blind in my left eye and the right one is sheit too but still I see him doing the serve with the BH

 

[dingyibvs]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y17nP1WQhKw&ved=2ahUKEwjsvrHukeSHAxVXzDgGHT_OEIAQwqsBegQIFBAG&usg=AOI admitvVaw0Wl2sMSkSUGQc2FW3aDaw9
I admit that i am half blind in my left eye and the right one is sheit too but still I see him doing the serve with the BH

That's definitely the forehand!

 

[S-Pin]

Hook Serve is easier to learn and has a low entry-level.
RP is harder to learn, but it starts with a medium entry-level.

Once you can do a basic RP serve, it is easier to "scale" from that point on.
Hook serve is harder to scale, but offers more in terms of effectiveness.

Both are hard to master.

Hook Serve has a higher skill ceiling ( more variations in spin, speed placement, disguise ).
RP looks cooler and will impress more people.

For a ( semi-good ) receiver:
- RP Serve is easier to adapt to
- Hook Serve can be more difficult to adapt to

Generally speaking.

Agree. On top of that a hook serve gives you more options for fake motions, and let's be honest, is much easier to hide. Lots of players serve hooks from low positions on the verge of illegal or just blatantly hidden, and it's not easy for an umpire to detect.

 

[blahness]

I can serve quality RP and hook serves, but tbh RP is just a pain to set up with that awkward high elbow position and uncomfortable wrist movement so I dont even bother now.

Also on illegal hiding, it is just a stereotype: Wang Manyu's and Truls' hook serve are largely legal, while Maharu Yoshimura's reverse pendulum degree of hiding contact rivals even Wang Chuqin's hook serve.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Reverse Pendulum Serve looks uber cool and makes you look IG / Tik-Tok / YT worthy.

All the hawt girls / guys cannot stop looking at your reels.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I think deception is more important than amount of spin.
Hook serve is easy to deceive opponents imo

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Hook serve is easier to hide with the body. Umpire don't care... so, hook serve is F.T.W...

The greatest advantage hook serve has over many other is that Hook can be hidden more easily. Yup! Wang Chuqin, I am looking at you!!!

I met a 15 year old kid recently who is also lefty, from away, his hook serve, looks, hair style, body etc looks like WCQ

The kid hides the ball way more than WCQ, so I had to give him tips on how to be more legal.

Never the less, his serves are so deceptive and the Indian junior I was hosting could not receive it after so many days of receiving it.

That kid also went to China for a tournament last month and also won a lot of points off his deception.
Sadly his rallies isn’t good, else he has one of the best hook serves for players just below semi pro

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

I met a 15 year old kid recently who is also lefty, from away, his hook serve, looks, hair style, body etc looks like WCQ

The kid hides the ball way more than WCQ, so I had to give him tips on how to be more legal.

Never the less, his serves are so deceptive and the Indian junior I was hosting could not receive it after so many days of receiving it.

That kid also went to China for a tournament last month and also won a lot of points off his deception.
Sadly his rallies isn’t good, else he has one of the best hook serves for players just below semi pro

Tony,

These days, I too get to play with academy trained U13 / U15 /U17 type players. I also see these upcoming star players emulate their idol, in the sense, they too hide the serve with their body / head just like WR#1 Mr. WCQ. The coach also do not admonish them because these action help them win the match which understandably for the coach / owner of the academy, winning matches is far more important for the branding of his academy.

However, what they are doing is cultivating a culture of non-compliance to ITTF rules. The rot, truly starts from the top. Mr. WCQ, currently WR#1 uses non-ITTF compliance serves and he is not censured by the referee on duty. Many young players emulate their idol and this promote a culture of not respecting fair-play.

I can see the rot happening at the grass-root already. What will the next generation be like, I wonder?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Tony,

These days, I too get to play with academy trained U13 / U15 /U17 type players. I also see these upcoming star players emulate their idol, in the sense, they too hide the serve with their body / head just like WR#1 Mr. WCQ. The coach also do not admonish them because these action help them win the match which understandably for the coach / owner of the academy, winning matches is far more important for the branding of his academy.

However, what they are doing is cultivating a culture of non-compliance to ITTF rules. The rot, truly starts from the top. Mr. WCQ, currently WR#1 uses non-ITTF compliance serves and he is not censured by the referee on duty. Many young players emulate their idol and this promote a culture of not respecting fair-play.

I can see the rot happening at the grass-root already. What will the next generation be like, I wonder?

Border line illegal serves are everywhere.
The rules are so weak and the enforcement of rules is even more, so you can’t blame players to be on the fine grey lines to get every competitive advantage you can.

If only more energy can be devoted to the enforcement of rules, then maybe, you and some other would believe it is a better world.

Fair-play is a big word, but between you and me, we know there is a lot of unfairness out there, ie all those fake plays in soccer or other sports, or super travelling to the moon and back violation in the nba….

Ittf set rules of toss height, flight angle, arm angle, etc
And the umpires are seated in an awkward position/angle with no tools to measure such angles/heights and we expect fairness.

Ps, driving speed limit is the same. How many who breaks the law daily by just going over a little bit, but not enough to get into trouble. If it is set just 0.1% over is punishable and there are mechanisms to enforce, then every body will behave.
It is 2024, I do thinks there are too many changes in the rules, but nothing about how umpires should have more resources to implement the rules.
Tennis, badminton etc, has umpires focusing on areas where the main umpires can see.

 

[Angerer]

Imo, Reverse Pendulum is more deadly, generates more spin (especially side spin), and is easier to make short on the table. However, it requires a lot of training and took me about 1.5 years to make it really uncomfortable for high-level opponents.

Hook serve is easier to produce and vary under/top spin, however it's mostly due to its hidden ball contact nature. For me, the hook is naturally easier to receive, while good RP servers cause more trouble.