Screaming during play? Illegal?

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I don't think Lind was not prepared (for the ball to come back), he actually was prepared to call it as soon as Noshad screamed, because if you are not prepared, your instinct would be playing instead of stopping.

Well, Lind left the next ball go off.
You need to continue to play, until umpire calls LET.

Umpire did not call LET, so Lind allowed the point to be lost by not returning the ball.
These are very basic knowledge.

No difference to service, and you call LET without returning the ball problem and risk loosing the point by not returning it.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

https://documents.ittf.sport/sites/default/files/public/2022-02/ITTF_HB_2022_clean_v1_0.pdf

"3.5.2.1 Players and coaches or other advisers shall refrain from behaviour that may unfairly affect an opponent, offend spectators or bring the sport into disrepute, such as abusive language, deliberately breaking the ball or hitting
it out of the playing area, kicking the table or surrounds and disrespect of match officials."
In short: it's debatable if that behavior "unfairly" affected that opponent.

seems like some people can't or didn't read your post

Just a thought for all reading too, in times where it is debatable, a warning from the umpire can be given.

I have now commented from the angle of umpire, coach and player.
since we are all players, learn to cope is what matters the most.
Or it is like teaching kids to expect everything to go your way, and they cannot cope in this "world"

table tennis is not for the faint hearted, it will spin you in side out

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

As soon as we've realised we called out in error, we just say "yours" and give the point away. I'm not sure what the exact rule is to be honest, but it just seems to be the fair thing to do.

There is no rules on this part.
if the player don't agree with umpire, and goes to turn the scorecard in favour of "sportsmanship", it is actually against the rule.

Most times, umpires become human and do allow "sportmanship" calls.
But this time, the umpire was clearly confused. Point went to both players, and umpire refuse the point to be replayed (since LET was called by one, and agreed by other to replay).
So, some times common sense is needed over black and white text in some "weak" rule book.

 

[Ian]

Wrong, plain wrong: Noshad sees the ball touching the net and going in his side, so he grunts in a way we would all do to save those kind of balls.

Watch the video again carefully. Noshad makes a loud and sudden noise as the ball hits the net, before he goes to lunge for the ball. The timing is subtle but I do believe he calls out because he thinks he won the point.

However, I've been through the ITTF rule book and I can't find any rule that says what Noshad did was illegal. The best Lind could hope for is a Let (under rule 2.9.2.4), but it's certainly not automatically his point as he claimed.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

However, I've been through the ITTF rule book and I can't find any rule that says what Noshad did was illegal. The best Lind could hope for is a Let (under rule 2.9.2.4), but it's certainly not automatically his point as he claimed.

3.5.2.1

 

[OldUser]

Watch the video again carefully. Noshad makes a loud and sudden noise as the ball hits the net, before he goes to lunge for the ball. The timing is subtle but I do believe he calls out because he thinks he won the point.

However, I've been through the ITTF rule book and I can't find any rule that says what Noshad did was illegal. The best Lind could hope for is a Let (under rule 2.9.2.4), but it's certainly not automatically his point as he claimed.

I'm an official FFTT referee, JA2 "Juge Arbitre 2ème degré", means that I can organize and supervise a whole federal competition at regional level. In other words, umpire in chief in those regional (can be transposed to province for China or state for USA) level competitions. We are trained to interpret wisely things that happened, here you clearly interpret what happens like a robot: I hear a noise from a player, rallye not ended = fault. No, this is not how a good referee acts my friend.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

You've got 10 seconds (avoids google cheating) to answer that simple question Tony's Table Penis: what's the distance in the playing area permitted by the referee the players should stay within during intervals like between games ones and time-outs ? remember, 10 seconds, it's easy.

put your penis away, we not interested.

and i think you need to speak English, but I can guess your question.
I think the answer is 3m or 4m
Most won't even go over that, since, some will just sit on the chair, which is less than 1m.
Unless you ask for permission to go toilet break.

Anyways, not sure what you trying to prove (does referees or umpires never make mistakes?), in your world, does referee umpire matches? You seem to struggle to separate the two different roles.

Speaking about your roles, do you guys get eye tests? or get awake tests prior to tournaments?
I find that players need to do anti doping test, does Umpire/referee need to do eye tests to see if they are within professional requirements?
Many of my friends are IU and really high level referee (think deputy referee Olympics). The ones I know are still young (in the 40s). There is many that I know are too old, and they do tend to fall asleep on the job:

I actually told Pei Ling, that she should call the referee and have the umpire replaced.
but you know, young players are afraid to "cause trouble", but seriously speaking, old people do need nap time and these tournaments are indeed very taxing.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

3 meters, too late you idiot.

your mouth needs some soap
you swear a lot, and nothing comes out of it is civilised, for your age and reputation (Mr Referee), you do need to learn some manners and speak with a clean mouth.

you are on my ignore list, so I don't get notification. and so what time is gone on your clock, I am typing posts to more important people than you. lol.
It would be lovely to rather just block you, since you do swear too much (I think you the only one on TTD that swears and mods are okay with that it seems)

anyways, you are arguing for the sake of arguing
the player himself said it was an accident, and you come with your high horses and say , noooo, its a GRUNT
lol
Even with video replay, we can see you still make the wrong judgement.
just give up now, you can be the no 1 referee or umpire, you are still human, and because of that, mistakes can still be made.

common sense should win (aka sportsmanship), not some silly "weak" rule book.
the umpire was weak, point given to both players during that period of uncertainty and both players asked for "let/replay". Just a pity the other player didn't show sportsmanship to give the point back.

Players need to learn to cope with bad umpires, and that is a fact

 

[Metaxa]

3.5.2.1

Nope, that article does NOT state that shouting is not allowed. The article just states that there is:
"Misbehaviour
3.5.2.1 Players and coaches or other advisers shall refrain from behaviour that may
unfairly affect an opponent, offend spectators or bring the sport into
disrepute, such as abusive language, deliberately breaking the ball or hitting
it out of the playing area, kicking the table or surrounds and disrespect of
match officials".

I can't read anywhere that no shouting is allowed during the game. (which does not mean that you can behave sporty).
It does state that you may not intentionally hit the ball out of the playing area. But this too is all allowed nowadays, remember Ruwen Filus.
I can only conclude from this that the refereeing department of the ITTF is one laughable display.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Nope, that article does NOT state that shouting is not allowed. The article just states that there is:
"Misbehaviour
3.5.2.1 Players and coaches or other advisers shall refrain from behaviour that may
unfairly affect an opponent, offend spectators or bring the sport into
disrepute, such as abusive language, deliberately breaking the ball or hitting
it out of the playing area, kicking the table or surrounds and disrespect of
match officials".

I can't read anywhere that no shouting is allowed during the game. (which does not mean that you can behave sporty).
It does state that you may not intentionally hit the ball out of the playing area. But this too is all allowed nowadays, remember Ruwen Filus.
I can only conclude from this that the refereeing department of the ITTF is one laughable display.

"shall refrain from behaviour that may unfairly affect an opponent,"

that is it.

ITTF hand book is poorly written and I have been saying it for decades.

So, if you do anything that will unfairly affect your opponent, as in, making irrating sound during the rally, clause 3.5.2.1 is the one that umpires should use to justify the situation.

Remember, there is a comma, and its like 1st thing, 2nd thing, 3rd thing.
I would prefer a ";" rather

 

[boltnut]

Watch the video again carefully. Noshad makes a loud and sudden noise as the ball hits the net, before he goes to lunge for the ball. The timing is subtle but I do believe he calls out because he thinks he won the point.

However, I've been through the ITTF rule book and I can't find any rule that says what Noshad did was illegal. The best Lind could hope for is a Let (under rule 2.9.2.4), but it's certainly not automatically his point as he claimed.

You're definitely correct on the timing. If you slow the video down you can see clearly that the reaction is to the ball hitting the net and Noshad believing he has won the point. The noise is definitively made before he ever starts to make a move towards the ball. He actually cuts the Cho Lei short when he realizes the point is not over.

 

[Metaxa]

"shall refrain from behaviour that may unfairly affect an opponent,"

that is it.

ITTF hand book is poorly written and I have been saying it for decades.

So, if you do anything that will unfairly affect your opponent, as in, making irrating sound during the rally, clause 3.5.2.1 is the one that umpires should use to justify the situation.

Remember, there is a comma, and its like 1st thing, 2nd thing, 3rd thing.
I would prefer a ";" rather

Gosh, yes, that is indeed the first, but that is broadly interpretable.

ITTF hand book is poorly written and I have been saying it for decades:
like many laws!!!

So, easy conclusion, as long as the referee does not think it is unsportsmanlike, play must continue.
Case closed.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Gosh, yes, that is indeed the first, but that is broadly interpretable.

ITTF hand book is poorly written and I have been saying it for decades:
like many laws!!!

So, easy conclusion, as long as the referee does not think it is unsportsmanlike, play must continue.
Case closed.

correct
Lind's coach can really show OP's video and give him some training on the few better ways to handle the situation.

Not a fan of him, but I do feel it is a good material for any coach to use,

 

[Lula]

I thought it was up to the umpire to decide when to stop the game, not the player?

 

[boltnut]

I thought it was up to the umpire to decide when to stop the game, not the player?

Definitely should have played out the point. Especially considering there is no clear rule on the matter. I doubt it bothered him, he just thought, “ oh he made a noise, that’s my point.” Obviously that’s not up to him. It’s funny how these opinions on rules happen. I know that at the club I play at everyone believes this rule also.

 

[lodro]

please go to 2:42 and listen to two man in "full flight" . Of course they are all illegal
because they moan and grown before the point is finished but I think this is perfectly appropriate, right ?
Enjoy

 

[JJ Ng]

Definitely should have played out the point. Especially considering there is no clear rule on the matter. I doubt it bothered him, he just thought, “ oh he made a noise, that’s my point.” Obviously that’s not up to him. It’s funny how these opinions on rules happen. I know that at the club I play at everyone believes this rule also.

Agree. Keep on playing and let the referee decide especially all the research people pulled up at this forum clearly says, "no, Lind, you are wrong. There is no such clear rule that says you automatically just get the point."

 

[piligrim]

Thakkar was screaming each time he hit ball in match vs Xian Pang today

 

[passifid]

Can I just ask are you all being silly in the last page? I get the arguments for both side to an extent but to pretend that all sounds affect play equally (especially as the rule is based around if it affects play) is insane.

If I made a grunt to hit the ball you are annoyed fine and maybe distracted, if I say Yes I won the point especially after the ball hits the net you'll probably relax and stop preparing for the next point as you just got informed it was over.

If after a key serve the opponent says let, puts their hand up and banana flicks the ball clearly you will have be impacted and less likely to return the ball

The same way that your radio in your car is not as distracting as your wife arguing with you even if theyre both sound.

 

[OldUser]

Exactly what I'm keeping on explaining here, it's all about the intention behind the noise made the player. That's the difference between a yellow and a red card in some sport, for example, when an opponent is being hurt, or injured. we all know as rugby and football lovers that some yellow cards can be switched to red ones when the intention to "kill" the opponent is established on the VAR. Here there was no intention to disrupt Lind, Lind is just being... a jerk, and he's known for that.

Interesting fact: he's a junker, from french huguenot descent. His full name is Anders Lind von Lavergne-Peguilhen. The Lavergne-Péguilhan is a french aristocrat family from protestant faith that escape from the Saint-Barthélémy massacre on August 24th in 1572: catholics mass killing protestants, there's a good film about that with Isabelle Adjani "Queen Margot".

That's why there are many huguenots that then became prussian, junker being the german name for "aristocrat". Some of them also escape to America, and South Africa, the Netherlands, and so on... hence the many many french names there: Rossouw (Rousseau), Du Toit, Theron (yep, that one, she's from french huguenot descent). So that might explain his high self-esteem.