Slow blade with fast rubbers vs. Fast blade with slow rubbers

[PakDa1988]

Hi,
from the point of view of a controlled offensive player, I ask myself which of the combinations fundamentally brings more control and security into the game:

1) a fast, offensive blade such as fast carbon blades or very fast all wood blades, which are then combined with moderate, rather thin rubbers (e.g. classics or even entry-level tensors).
Examples like:
Butterfly Innerforce ZLC or Andro Timber 7 OFF combined with an Andro Hexer Duro or a Tibhar Aurus Soft, rubbers then rather thin 1.7/1.9

2) A more allround 5ply all-wood blade paired with faster and more spinny rubbers, e.g.
Donic Appelgreen Allplay or Andro Novacell ALL, Tibhar Drinkhall Allround etc. with e.g. Butterfly Tenergy 05, Tibhar EL-D, Rasanter R48 then in rather 2.0 or maximum

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The question arises from the point of view of a player who tends to be more offensive, but for whom control and security are somewhat more important.
It's nice when the 100% grenade comes along, but that doesn't help that much if the material is difficult to control in the passive and active game and the susceptibility to errors is therefore very high.

Playing style forehand 90% active and topspin oriented, backhand allround to off, with opening topspins, otherwise also block and push included.

---

I would be very happy about an exchange about the respective advantages and disadvantages of the approaches.

 

[TensorBackhand]

I think fast blade with slow rubber works out with more spin and control overall.

 

[lodro]

This is too complex a question to ask and you will get as many opinions as there will be
forum members posting.
All mentioned combinations can be made to work very well, so pick one that you feel comfortable with and train hard 😁

 

[hclnnkhg]

Personally I find fast blade + slow rubber is more controllable. Touch shot and passive block are not too fast, and you can still get speed by swinging hard.
With slow blade + fast rubber, my blocks become faster and less controllable. When I go full swing, the slow blade limits my power.

 

[Wakkibatty]

It's my experience that the differences between rubbers is much smaller (generally speaking) than the differences between blades, and changing the latter has a more profound effect than changing the former.

Myself I am also in the fast blade with slower rubbers category. I usually play with an extremely fast One-Ply blade, and utilize a slower rubber.

You'd be amazed how competitive and dynamic even older rubbers like Mark V / 729 Super FX / F3S / Donic F1 can be when they are teamed with the extreme speed and control of a good One-Ply... Let alone more modern spinny varieties like the Donic Barracuda or soft and fast rubbers like the AK47 or Joola Extra Energy.

(The fact these above combos are also far cheaper to buy and maintain over time is just an added bonus 😎😎).

 

[JJ Ng]

Fast all-wood blade plays very different than fast, outer-carbon blade. They are not the same. No matter how fast the all wood blade it, it still has a feeling of control.

My vote is therefore, fast 5-ply or fast 7-ply wood blade with light tensor rubbers to start off with (so say C-1 or Rakza 7 soft). Then progress to Inner carbon blades with regular tensor rubbers (like G-1 or Razka X).

finally after that, you can do whatever you want. Inner carbon with T05 on both sides. Or go fast outer carbon with Dignics 05 on both sides.

 

[Lazer]

I prefer a slow blade with a little flex.
One thing with fast blades is that they are normally very stiff. This makes looping harder and more uncomfortable. This way I get to play with faster rubbers too.

When I restarted after 40+ Years I had a Primorac carbon that was given to me. I started with this one and to make it playable for me I had to put some slow rubbers on it. It worked but wasn’t the best. Since I tested a lot of blades and I find that an all+ works excellent and give me access to faster rubbers.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[turbozed]

This is a question I've thought long and hard about since I started out on All+ 5 ply blades on forum recommendations and eventually finding my way to a faster 7 ply (played with Nittaku Acoustic and Yasaka Sweden Extra before settling on Sanwei Fextra).

To me, the Fextra with slower rubber feels way more controllable and comfortable for me than a slow blade with bouncy rubber. Thin 5 plies under 5.8mm seem to lack a backbone, and have poor stability for blocking. Also, something like the YSE paired with non tensor rubber just feels kinda dead and slow.

I can't imagine that anyone would enjoy playing a flexy slow 5 ply (Yasaka Sweden Classic, Extra, Stiga Allround Classic, etc.) unless paired with faster bouncy (and for those reasons more expensive) rubber.

My head cannon is that thin 5 plies were great beginner blades with non tensor rubber only in the old ball era. The lighter ball meant less issues of stability and less powerful equipment needed. However with the new ball change people who recommended thin 5 plies continued to do so out of habit, but then just changed the recommended the rubber from a Mark V type rubber to something like Rakza 7 or Rozena. They should have instead recommended a thicker and faster 5 or 7 ply (6.0mm+ and OFF-) and suggested the cheaper rubber (Chinese tacky or semi-bouncy). It's not just easier to control but A LOT less expensive over time (when a $30 sheet of Rakza 7 is your starting rubber, it can get VERY EXPENSIVE to upgrade over time).

The further proof of my theory is that if you look at the top selling Chinese blade manufacturers, none of them are even producing thin 5 ply All/All+ blades. Yinhe had the W6 and other copycat blades but those have all been discontinued after the new ball introduction (a very telling sign). There's no market for these blades because beginners are correctly directed to blades like Yinhe U2, Sword Day Fury and Sanwei Fextra (all 6.0mm+ Off- blades) for use with the cheaper, non tensor Chinese rubbers.

IMO the Chinese model makes more sense while also being cheaper. Looking through the YouTube videos of other countries where they are looking for the best value (Phillipines, Indonesia, Thailand, and Eastern Europe) I see way more people reviewing and talking about Sanwei, Yinhe and other value brands. Even Japanese channels are now talking more about Chinese equipment (I've discovered a good amount that each have 10s of thousands of followers)

 

[JJ Ng]

This is a question I've thought long and hard about since I started out on All+ 5 ply blades on forum recommendations and eventually finding my way to a faster 7 ply (played with Nittaku Acoustic and Yasaka Sweden Extra before settling on Sanwei Fextra).

To me, the Fextra with slower rubber feels way more controllable and comfortable for me than a slow blade with bouncy rubber. Thin 5 plies under 5.8mm seem to lack a backbone, and have poor stability for blocking. Also, something like the YSE paired with non tensor rubber just feels kinda dead and slow.

I can't imagine that anyone would enjoy playing a flexy slow 5 ply (Yasaka Sweden Classic, Extra, Stiga Allround Classic, etc.) unless paired with faster bouncy (and for those reasons more expensive) rubber.

My head cannon is that thin 5 plies were great beginner blades with non tensor rubber only in the old ball era. The lighter ball meant less issues of stability and less powerful equipment needed. However with the new ball change people who recommended thin 5 plies continued to do so out of habit, but then just changed the recommended the rubber from a Mark V type rubber to something like Rakza 7 or Rozena. They should have instead recommended a thicker and faster 5 or 7 ply (6.0mm+ and OFF-) and suggested the cheaper rubber (Chinese tacky or semi-bouncy). It's not just easier to control but A LOT less expensive over time (when a $30 sheet of Rakza 7 is your starting rubber, it can get VERY EXPENSIVE to upgrade over time).

The further proof of my theory is that if you look at the top selling Chinese blade manufacturers, none of them are even producing thin 5 ply All/All+ blades. Yinhe had the W6 and other copycat blades but those have all been discontinued after the new ball introduction (a very telling sign). There's no market for these blades because beginners are correctly directed to blades like Yinhe U2, Sword Day Fury and Sanwei Fextra (all 6.0mm+ Off- blades) for use with the cheaper, non tensor Chinese rubbers.

IMO the Chinese model makes more sense while also being cheaper. Looking through the YouTube videos of other countries where they are looking for the best value (Phillipines, Indonesia, Thailand, and Eastern Europe) I see way more people reviewing and talking about Sanwei, Yinhe and other value brands. Even Japanese channels are now talking more about Chinese equipment (I've discovered a good amount that each have 10s of thousands of followers)

I agree.

I do not like ALL and ALL+ blade.

I think people should at minimum, start with OFF- 5-ply wood blade and then go from there.

 

[Gozo]

The logical way of progressing in table tennis is as follows:

1. Start out with an all-round blade paired with all-round rubbers
2. Gradually upgrade your rubbers as you improve at the sport
3. Once you've progressed through the rubber ranks and have got to the point where you are using top-end offensive rubbers, then if you still need more speed and power then go to step 4
4. Consider a faster blade*

*99.9% of players should never need to go to step 4; any decent all-round blade paired with top-end offensive rubbers is plenty fast enough for any player that doesn't have a realistic chance of playing professionally..

5. Full Gozo Set-up.

 

[turbozed]

5. Full Gozo Set-up.
View attachment 25623

Ive started to think of rackets in terms of cars too, but my thinking is the opposite of yours.

The player is the engine. The blade and rubber is only the drivetrain and transmission. A fast setup doesn't generate power, it just transmits power. So a super fast setup is like a light chassis and efficient drivetrain.

It's like a Honda Civic. Even with a 4 banger engine you can get it to go fast enough. You put a bigger engine in it and it'll go super fast but also be harder to control.

If a player is strong and powerful they are bringing a V12 engine and they can use slower, hard sponged rubbers because they need to get all that power to the road. The DHS H3s are the big powerful cars with wide stance and big slick tires. Small amount of throttle doesn't move it much, but when you go full throttle then it will have higher top end speed than the efficient at low power Honda Civic Tenergies and Infinities.

 

[SleepyMaster]

For a beginner all+ or off- with some not super quick tensors or hybrids would be the best choice.

For an advanced users there is a time, when it’s time to go up in speed, and go for carbon inner/outer. The amount of that time is super individual thing, and dependent on a goals and ambitions of a player, and a technical abilities that he has achieved by training.

 

[WingTT]

I have Butterfly's fastest and probably one of the slowest blades, the Sardius and original black tag Kong Linghui (non special) and a bunch of other blades in between. Neither of those two setups are right for me with either slow or fast rubbers. The magic is finding the middle ground. You want a blade fast enough that it is not limiting your top speed on your hard hits but not so fast and stiff that it makes it hard for you to control the over the table shots and being able to have confidence in opening up on underspin serves or returns.

I believe this middle ground can be found in the right inner carbon blade. Mine currently is the Long 5 Light. Not quite as fast as my regular Long 5 but not limiting on hard hits but much better control on looping/flicking against underspin. I have to play it with the handle wrapped however as the handle is child sized. Not sure if it's because it has a 63% rebound damping rating (vs the 61% on the regular HL5), or the 159mm sized head (vs 158mm HL5) or the tiny handle but if I am looking to see if I can get something similar with a regular handle.

 

[PakDa1988]

Thank you all for sharing your experiences and opinions.
Are there any further opinions, pros and cons?

 

[_JOOLA_]

It all depends on the level of your game and the level of play of your opponents. At the initial stage, the speeds and spins of the ball are mostly not high, so a hard blade is not needed to block fast balls, while it is very important to learn the correct technique and have maximum ball feel and control over the game. At this stage, it is better to use a five-layer wooden blade with rubbers of average speed in thickness, in my opinion, optimally 2 mm. Further it is possible to pass to the maximum rubbers, further - tensors. Then you grow, your rivals grow, the speed of the ball and its rotation grow. You need to switch to a faster hard base, while it is better to take rubber of medium speed. Well, further increase in speeds and rotation due to rubber as the level of the game grows.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Thank you all for sharing your experiences and opinions.
Are there any further opinions, pros and cons?

Fast blade + fast rubbers, says all the fist timers, who think they are pro level at day 1 old.

 

[_JOOLA_]

This is a question I've thought long and hard about since I started out on All+ 5 ply blades on forum recommendations and eventually finding my way to a faster 7 ply (played with Nittaku Acoustic and Yasaka Sweden Extra before settling on Sanwei Fextra).

To me, the Fextra with slower rubber feels way more controllable and comfortable for me than a slow blade with bouncy rubber. Thin 5 plies under 5.8mm seem to lack a backbone, and have poor stability for blocking. Also, something like the YSE paired with non tensor rubber just feels kinda dead and slow.

I can't imagine that anyone would enjoy playing a flexy slow 5 ply (Yasaka Sweden Classic, Extra, Stiga Allround Classic, etc.) unless paired with faster bouncy (and for those reasons more expensive) rubber.

My head cannon is that thin 5 plies were great beginner blades with non tensor rubber only in the old ball era. The lighter ball meant less issues of stability and less powerful equipment needed. However with the new ball change people who recommended thin 5 plies continued to do so out of habit, but then just changed the recommended the rubber from a Mark V type rubber to something like Rakza 7 or Rozena. They should have instead recommended a thicker and faster 5 or 7 ply (6.0mm+ and OFF-) and suggested the cheaper rubber (Chinese tacky or semi-bouncy). It's not just easier to control but A LOT less expensive over time (when a $30 sheet of Rakza 7 is your starting rubber, it can get VERY EXPENSIVE to upgrade over time).

The further proof of my theory is that if you look at the top selling Chinese blade manufacturers, none of them are even producing thin 5 ply All/All+ blades. Yinhe had the W6 and other copycat blades but those have all been discontinued after the new ball introduction (a very telling sign). There's no market for these blades because beginners are correctly directed to blades like Yinhe U2, Sword Day Fury and Sanwei Fextra (all 6.0mm+ Off- blades) for use with the cheaper, non tensor Chinese rubbers.

IMO the Chinese model makes more sense while also being cheaper. Looking through the YouTube videos of other countries where they are looking for the best value (Phillipines, Indonesia, Thailand, and Eastern Europe) I see way more people reviewing and talking about Sanwei, Yinhe and other value brands. Even Japanese channels are now talking more about Chinese equipment (I've discovered a good amount that each have 10s of thousands of followers)

Demand creates supply, so it seems to me that novice players who choose equipment on their own, looking at the inventory of more advanced players in their club, increase the demand for hard blades.