Unsolicited Coaching

[Ilia Minkin]

Let's talk about unsolicited playing advice. Honestly, I don't mind if somebody politely gives me some tips. Even if they don't make sense to me. But some dudes just like to come to people and aggressively tell them what they need to do. Without any proper introduction. And when the coach is told to mind their business, they get really pissed. I don't understand that.

I also like the guy that yells "Hey, spin the ball man! Spin the ball! Y U NO SPINNING THE BALL?" from the other corner of the gym when I play a match, especially in a tournament/league. Yeah, this is the thing I need right now.

 

[pgpg]

Let's talk about unsolicited playing advice. Honestly, I don't mind if somebody politely gives me some tips. Even if they don't make sense to me. But some dudes just like to come to people and aggressively tell them what they need to do. Without any proper introduction. And when the coach is told to mind their business, they get really pissed. I don't understand that.

I also like the guy that yells "Hey, spin the ball man! Spin the ball! Y U NO SPINNING THE BALL?" from the other corner of the gym when I play a match, especially in a tournament/league. Yeah, this is the thing I need right now.

Are these 'coaches' someone you actually know well? If so, then you can politely tell them to pound sand. Or ask them to give you feedback after the match.

If you don't know them - eh, just nod thoughtfully and ignore.

 

[tropical]

Youtube is where you look look for ...

 

[Ilia Minkin]

Are these 'coaches' someone you actually know well? If so, then you can politely tell them to pound sand. Or ask them to give you feedback after the match.

If you don't know them - eh, just nod thoughtfully and ignore.

Yeah, that is the right way to deal with it. I'd just like for whoever reads this to be aware that this kind of behaviour is awkward and annoying. I am also curious what is going in those "coaches" heads.

 

[Archosaurus]

If they're real coaches, I would shut up and listen.

If not, well, take it or leave it. I would always leave "SPIN THE BALL MAN".

 

[ttmonster]

How about ordering a t-shirt ...

 

[NextLevel]

A lot of coaches gave me unsolicited advice coming up that helped me improve as a player. I know others may not be as open to such favors, but I try to pass on the free advice that helped. Of course, reactions such as Ilya's have helped curb my enthusiasm so I only talk when asked these days.

 

[Suga D]

As i wrote in the other thread, i think most people don't have bad intentions, they just don't properly know about the mental aspects.
Dr. Christian Zepp is a mental coach. Actually not only for tabletennis, but also for other sports. And he once wrote at mytischtennis.de how negative or positive thinking affects the playing. I'll try to find the link to the interview and post here.

Anyhow, I actually don't have a problem with unwanted coaching while at a practice session, but negative emotions through coaching while at a competitive match like a tournament or a league match isn't helpful at all.
I have one old dude on my team and he always used to shake his head and make a miserable facial expression after a mistake until i told him that his reactions aren't really helpful.
He still keeps doing it (as i said he's already over seventy), but somehow it doesn't really bother me anymore since i know he doesn't mean it in a negative way.

 

[Ilia Minkin]

As i wrote in the other thread, i think most people don't have bad intentions, they just don't properly know about the mental aspects.

Exactly. Or lack scommunication skills.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

This is actually a great subject. I think this happens more in TT than anything else I can think about.

I have even seen someone being coached by a 2500+ level player have some 1900 level joker start giving the player and the coach advice.

Hahahaha.

I do my best not to give advice unless someone asks. However, I used to be one of those who did the unasked for advice giving at one point.

I just started realizing that, when someone else did it, I frequently did not like it.

But it is true, usually these guys think they are being helpful. It just may not always work out that way.

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[LordPippington]

I like to have fun with them, if I'm in the mood.

Ask for clarification and then (intentionally, though not too overtly) do the technique wrong or exaggerate the mistake. This will send 'coach' into a bit of a tizzy, and then you keep on going down that route of messing up on purpose and watching them become frustrated. This can be a great form of entertainment if you're stuck playing doubles with a loudmouth 'coach'

Be sure to make comments like, "Oh damn, I almost had it right that time, didn't I?" Or on a really big miss, "Oh man! I was so close that time! Did you see the spin on it!"

Often times you can ask them to show you how it's done, and they'll miss a bunch themselves... but always have an excuse for it!

 

[Suga D]

Couldn't find the right article yet, but this one is almost as good. It's about positive and negative self talk. It's in german but maybe with googletranslate you can understand it. Otherwise maybe i can help out, while i try to find the right article.
https://www.mytischtennis.de/public/taktik/5988/wm-2017-home

 

[ttmonster]

I was hesitating whether to post this or not because its completely opposite of what Illia feels .. anyways I am somebody on the opposite end of the spectrum ... normally till within the limits of sanity I don't get pissed off when somebody gives me unwanted advise ... call me gullible or stupid , I start with thinking that they are right and then try it out , there have been hits and misses but since coaching is too expensive for me it always helps to listen to what other people have to say , then I can filter out what I want to accept ... for me it has worked out well so far ... and about that coaching stuff during playing matches , fortunately I haven't had that experience , but I can tell easily that would piss me off

 

[Ilia Minkin]

I was hesitating whether to post this or not because its completely opposite of what Illia feels .. anyways I am somebody on the opposite end of the spectrum ... normally till within the limits of sanity I don't get pissed off when somebody gives me unwanted advise ... call me gullible or stupid , I start with thinking that they are right and then try it out , there have been hits and misses but since coaching is too expensive for me it always helps to listen to what other people have to say , then I can filter out what I want to accept ... for me it has worked out well so far ... and about that coaching stuff during playing matches , fortunately I haven't had that experience , but I can tell easily that would piss me off

Don't get me wrong, I am not against giving advice. Even unsolicited. Sometimes I also make very gentle suggestions to my friends and even people I barely know personally. And when I do, I try to be considerate of personal borders as much as I can.

 

[Ilia Minkin]

And this is a big no-no

 

[tropical]

One old man rating approximately 1500 told me to stop using long pips. As I needed a partner to practice I didn't care. Then he tried to demonstrate that whenever he hit the ball to my long pips he could immediately win the point. It was so funny because I was practicing a new technique. I basically uh huh, yeah .. yeah... For god sake the guy couldn't even return my serve!

 

[LordPippington]

One old man rating approximately 1500 told me to stop using long pips. As I needed a partner to practice I didn't care. Then he tried to demonstrate that whenever he hit the ball to my long pips he could immediately win the point. It was so funny because I was practicing a new technique. I basically uh huh, yeah .. yeah... For god sake the guy couldn't even return my serve!

But... you're not serving with long pips, are ya? +1 for the old geezer!

 

[LordPippington]

I was hesitating whether to post this or not because its completely opposite of what Illia feels .. anyways I am somebody on the opposite end of the spectrum ... normally till within the limits of sanity I don't get pissed off when somebody gives me unwanted advise ... call me gullible or stupid , I start with thinking that they are right and then try it out , there have been hits and misses but since coaching is too expensive for me it always helps to listen to what other people have to say , then I can filter out what I want to accept ... for me it has worked out well so far ... and about that coaching stuff during playing matches , fortunately I haven't had that experience , but I can tell easily that would piss me off

I would assume it's more directed at people who aren't all that great, but consider themselves experts. Like the proverbial armchair analyst/backseat driver!

When a good player offers me advice, I like to test it out certainly. Maybe you haven't encountered the type Ilia is referring to, or I imagine he's talking about. Probably guys who played for 10+ years, don't ever get any better, and the only thing they can shoot fast is their mouth!

 

[ttmonster]

I understand who Illia is talking about , and I know about the armchair critics , but its okay. If you let it go , and just take what you need to , its not all that bothersome . I get pissed more people who lack common courtesy like picking up balls when it gets to their playing area, running within your playing area without waiting for you to finish your rally / point , standing too close to the able and cheering their team mate , doing an illegal serve at the end to get advantage , trying to cheat on the points , refusing to play with you if they don't consider you at their level without even trying to give you a proper warm up ... the point is there are a lot of selfish , self centered people out there who are much more annoying than people who are atleast trying to offer advise however much ill conceived it might be ...

I would assume it's more directed at people who aren't all that great, but consider themselves experts. Like the proverbial armchair analyst/backseat driver!

When a good player offers me advice, I like to test it out certainly. Maybe you haven't encountered the type Ilia is referring to, or I imagine he's talking about. Probably guys who played for 10+ years, don't ever get any better, and the only thing they can shoot fast is their mouth!

 

[QWERTY Spin]

Certainly an interesting topic involving the topics of coaching and an athletes mind.
In general I am pretty open to criticism or a piece of advice. Its because unless I film myself i only experience my play from my own perspective and other people can point out flaws which are simply easier to see from the outside. with that being said usually I know from who the criticism is coming from and judge it accordingly. Also when being mindful about ones own play, I usually know what areas to improve on. So if being presented with a problem i dont intend to change in the near future I just point out to them that its not on my priority list but ID keep it in mind.

In match play however its different.
In high pressure situations its already difficult to keep up your mental. While top performing athletes can refocus rather quickly, amateurs can get set off by a comment for a while. One has a matchplan in mind and the last thing needed is "spin the ball more" in your mind all the time.
Thats why i want to take advice only by my coach or teammates who know me. And people yelling are asked to not "coach" me while playing matches in a polite manner.

Most times people fail to see the athletes perspective and instead put themselves into ones position and think about what they would do. Thats a rather naive approach since they eliminate all the variables and stress thats connected to the situation. So an advice like "spin the ball more" makes sense to them since without pressure and nothing at stakes thats what they would do if presented with that ball.