Viewership numbers

[Tony's Table Tennis]

With the talk in MLTT thread, and the new tabletennis.tv and what not, and then 2 photos a friend sent me few days ago, I thought of just starting a thread talking about the viewership numbers or the lack of it.

So he used to worked with WTT and he is now quite involved with pickleball.
he said this:

1) we only at 16k followers (WTT has 811k on instagram)
2) I sent to WTT staff (I replied that is harsh)

I didn't know pickleball can get so much audience, and we talking about a huge account like WTT with many years of history versus an account that recently started (Dec 2024).

I think the viewership numbers in table tennis is extremely worrying....

PS. I was gifted a Joola picketball racket, but haven't played with it yet. I know close to nothing about the sport.

 

[Jslick89]

People love pickleball because they're not good enough to play pingpong. its the fastest growing sport here in the USA apparently, but its so boring to watch for me. Fun to play, but i dont play often because i dont want to mess up my ping pong stroke.

Its also generally way more accessible due to being able to play for free at any public park that has courts. a lot of tennis courts are getting turned into pickleball courts, and brand new parks just for pickleball are being constructed all over.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

People love pickleball because they're not good enough to play pingpong.

People leave ping pong for many reasons, one being because of snobby attitudes like this that are so common in the TT community. I know numerous 2600+ players who have switched to pickleball, and even more 2000+ TT players who switched, and it isn't because they "weren't good enough at ping pong". The reasons are endless but most common is that the effort/reward to maintain that high level of a TT game doesn't exist in the USA, less toxic community in pickleball, more accessible like you said, and to many, it is more fun.

 

[Jslick89]

People leave ping pong for many reasons, one being because of snobby attitudes like this that are so common in the TT community. I know numerous 2600+ players who have switched to pickleball, and even more 2000+ TT players who switched, and it isn't because they "weren't good enough at ping pong". The reasons are endless but most common is that the effort/reward to maintain that high level of a TT game doesn't exist in the USA, less toxic community in pickleball, more accessible like you said, and to many, it is more fun.

lol dude its not like i tell pickleballers this to their face, but you and and me both know that is 100% easier for a great ping pong player to go and become a great pickleball player than it is for a pickleball player to come and become a great ping pong player. even your friends who were 2000+ rated are probably great examples of this, and not really what I was talking about anyways. my comment was more for people who are would be potentially starting either sport. Its much easier to get good at pickleball than it is to become skilled at ping pong. The ball moves slower, and you have so much more time to react. those two factors alone make it a much easier sport to learn than table tennis.

My club is right next to a 10 court pickleball park. on rainy days, the pickleball players come and they are at the very last table 9 out of 10 times. When I go to play pickleball, i'm already in the upper half of the players, holding my own just fine at the mid level courts and still getting good action at the higher level courts.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

lol dude its not like i tell pickleballers this to their face, but you and and me both know that is 100% easier for a great ping pong player to go and become a great pickleball player than it is for a pickleball player to come and become a great ping pong player. even your friends who were 2000+ rated are probably great examples of this, and not really what I was talking about anyways. my comment was more for people who are would be potentially starting either sport. Its much easier to get good at pickleball than it is to become skilled at ping pong. The ball moves slower, and you have so much more time to react. those two factors alone make it a much easier sport to learn than table tennis.

I don't disagree with any of this, but you said that people love pickleball because they aren't good at table tennis. 2600 players who got sick of TT and switched to pickleball is proof this isn't true.

Most people who play pickleball have never even bothered to try table tennis seriously. Just because you don't like pickleball or look down on it because it is an easier to grasp game doesn't mean that's the only reason that people like it or that it isn't a valid reason to like it.

 

[piligrim]

I don't disagree with any of this, but you said that people love pickleball because they aren't good at table tennis. 2600 players who got sick of TT and switched to pickleball is proof this isn't true.

Most people who play pickleball have never even bothered to try table tennis seriously. More proof that comment can't be taken seriously. Just because you don't like pickleball or look down on it because it is an easier to grasp game doesn't mean that's the only reason that people like it or that it isn't a valid reason to like it.

I actually know many people who played tt and keep playing but started to play pickleball

 

[NextLevel]

I don't disagree with any of this, but you said that people love pickleball because they aren't good at table tennis. 2600 players who got sick of TT and switched to pickleball is proof this isn't true.

Most people who play pickleball have never even bothered to try table tennis seriously. Just because you don't like pickleball or look down on it because it is an easier to grasp game doesn't mean that's the only reason that people like it or that it isn't a valid reason to like it.

I know a guy who quit playing TT(played on his country's junior national team and was a strong amateur in NY). He just developed all those small joint injuries from TT and didn't enjoy it anymore. His best friend in TT resumed playing and asked whether he would come back - he tried and it and said it wasn't worth it -he gets all the exercise and fun he needs from pickleball.

As much as we love our sport, there is something to be said for not having to do all these fast stressful motions just to hit a ball at high speed.

 

[jar]

I never watched a pickleball game, but it seems like a fun time that people can relate to.

For me, there's many reasons why table tennis is not a widely popular sport, even after all these years of existence. I guess I could have posted this in other threads but this latest one seems fine. I also guess that all of this has been said before, but whatever.

Without writing a real essay on the subject, here are the top reasons that come to mind :

Spin : for regular spectators and non-hardcore players, spin just kills the fun. Either they dont understand how strong it affects the game when watching live matches, or they cant return a simple serve and get frustrated.

Way too much focus on equipment variety and fine details : general public doesn't care about the difference of 0.1mm rubber thickness between XYZ002 Ultra Plus Sky Cloud and XYZ001 Ultra Regular Sky Cloud, or what material the 4th and 5th ply are in the new 7-ply Extra New Old Tradition blade. The online forums are crowded with this kind of talk and it just isnt very interesting to most people.

Variety of playing styles : not much variety aside from some players who can keep it interesting and different at the top level (Hashimoto, Moregard, Lind, Aruna, Xu Xin etc). Most players train and play the way that is proven to be more effective. Thats not a critique of players but more of the sport, where a very fine margin means winning or losing.

Players personnality : most players are very reserved and serious (boring?) which is fine in itself but doesnt generate a lot of discussion and debate like in tennis for example.

I could probably find more reasons, but for my last point : there is already a LOT of sports that people are invested in, and they dont have time for another sport which has all these problems I mentioned. Plus, no matter what, table tennis will always carry the reputation of being a garage/basement game you play while waiting for the football/american football/baseball/basketball/hockey/boxing/MMA game to start.

All that being said, I think it's fine that it remains this way.

Sure, I would like it if there were more easily accessible tactical and philosophical analysis of the game, talk about history of clubs and tournaments, instead of Equipment Junkies spamming new gear. But TT exists for some serious enthusiasts to enjoy and for the hobby players to have fun playing. I think we need to stop worrying about view counts and "growing the popularity" of the sport and just have fun.

That is all for now, sorry about the long post, I needed to get that out of my head.

 

[OvrChkn]

I think accessibility is the main barrier to entry, at least in the US. Table tennis is casual friendly, as long as you have a table around. There's so much variability in the sport that I can see it being intimidating for someone to come in and just get frustrated not being able to return a ball.

Pickleball co-opting tennis courts, but from my experiences, the communities can get built easier because there's so much interest, and retention is seemingly higher. Money is definitely coming in. I'm not sure if we've reached a saturation point yet for the sport.

The influx of money and marketing on the Western side seems to be the biggest difference honestly.

 

[Jslick89]

I don't disagree with any of this, but you said that people love pickleball because they aren't good at table tennis. 2600 players who got sick of TT and switched to pickleball is proof this isn't true.

Most people who play pickleball have never even bothered to try table tennis seriously. Just because you don't like pickleball or look down on it because it is an easier to grasp game doesn't mean that's the only reason that people like it or that it isn't a valid reason to like it.

ok, well if i was to make my point more clearly, it would go like this:

Potential new players to pickleball or tabletennis will most likely choose pickleball over tabletennis because they are not good enough nor have the willingness or ability to learn how to become good at table tennis, and its much easier for them to become good at pickleball.

I would say that covers a majority of new players to the sport. of course, there will be exceptions, like your ex TT playing friends. and pickleball has a ton of other supreme athletes from other sports now..like ex NBA and NFL players. Why- because it's a lot easier for them to learn how to be good at pickleball than it is at Ping-Pong and their athleticism is a huge advantage that wouldn't be as apparent in table tennis.

Also, I never said i dont like pickleball, i said i play from time to time. personally, its not as rewarding. I just think its an easier sport to play and thats why people like it. I get why its more popular than table tennis.

More people play pickleball than tennis now too. But tennis is also a more difficult sport than pickleball. I say this as someone who has competed in both table tennis, tennis, and played pickleball for fun.

 

[zeio]

The OP didn't know pickleball had that much draw? Seriously? Tennis courts are being converted in droves. Pickleball is so popular even Tennis Warehouse University has spun off Pickleball Warehouse University. Indeed a ball feeder. Keep dissing/ditching WTT and clinging to the old ways and lose your job before you know it. Can't get any dumber than that.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...ng-to-go-downhill-from-here.37863/post-537691

 

[BlotOnPaper]

People leave ping pong for many reasons, one being because of snobby attitudes like this that are so common in the TT community. I know numerous 2600+ players who have switched to pickleball, and even more 2000+ TT players who switched, and it isn't because they "weren't good enough at ping pong". The reasons are endless but most common is that the effort/reward to maintain that high level of a TT game doesn't exist in the USA, less toxic community in pickleball, more accessible like you said, and to many, it is more fun.

I'm not from the USA, but can relate to it quite a lot. I like to train in TT, but i hate playing in any tournaments. Because i have 2 options: play fun and interesting active table tennis and lose, or just put the ball on the table and win. In tournaments your biggest problem are not other active attacking players, it's always fun to lose to someone like this, because i clearly see that i'm worse.

But a lot of the time there is some allround style grandfather that do some insane things that you never seen in your life and you do not understand what to do with them. There are all kinds of pimple players that just give you unreadable spin. There are people who just block everything to put it on the table, waiting for your error. I just don't like playing this kind of tennis. It looks and feels lame. And i think this is the reason why a lot of young guys does not stick with TT. It just doesnt look or feel cool more than 70% of you matches, if not worse. You need a lot of additional training time to understand how to play against all this kind of stuff. And if you want to do more than one sport, TT is just impossible to progress at effectively, unlike a lot of other activities. You need crazy amount of training time to always win against random players much lower than you in rating. Game is extremely volatile. A lot of times you loose a set just by bad luck on some minor things. You really need to have a big gap in skill to always win in the matchup consistently.

And i find it so extremely frustrating. It just feels like you are getting cheesed by half of the playerbase. You can be more technically proficient and athletic and still lose. So I do not play any table tennis for about two months, thinking about all of this and my feelings towards this sport. My sport life really became better, i have more time and energy(both physical and mental) for my climbing and calisthenics, i progress in the weight room faster, and i have time to try to learn how to play volleyball and badminton - two sports that I am considering to switch to from TT. I tried different things in table tennis, probably the only one that's left is to try how this new shiny zyre-03 plays. Too much hype arround.

I feel like TT has such big potential, but for me it looks like it's dying from a thousand cuts. There are a lot of small problems in the game. But collectively thay make this sport feel bad, both for watch and for play. If you are an old time player you probably got used to them. But i can't. And it feels quite sad that a game that i was really pationate about started to feeling worse and worse as i progressed. It you are really bad - it's easy to have fun in tt. If you are really good - probably also, but with some caveates. But a life of an adult hobby player who tries to become better just feel miserable in this sport. At least in comparasion to rock climbing, in my experience.

 

[the-don]

americans are very proud folk.
they don't like to adore/submit to other nationalities.
they could never go "oh yeah I love ma long, waldner is so cool, timo boll is my idol...."
they need their own national heroes so now they have andre agassi and andy roddick playing pickleball so they all go play pickleball to defend their national pride and say "oh yeah baby we are number 1 in the world!!" ..... exactly as they do with football, baseball, hockey and all their national sports which only they play.

 

[piligrim]

I know a guy who quit playing TT(played on his country's junior national team and was a strong amateur in NY). He just developed all those small joint injuries from TT and didn't enjoy it anymore. His best friend in TT resumed playing and asked whether he would come back - he tried and it and said it wasn't worth it -he gets all the exercise and fun he needs from pickleball.

As much as we love our sport, there is something to be said for not having to do all these fast stressful motions just to hit a ball at high speed.

Why not badminton? Its much more fun in my opinion then pickleball. Pickleball its just mix between badminton and tennis. I guess its made for people who don't like to move

 

[the-don]

Why not badminton? Its much more fun in my opinion then pickleball. Pickleball its just mix between badminton and tennis. I guess its made for people who don't like to move

because badminton is dominated by asians and europeans.
they need something national like the Ram truck where nobody will take from them their adored number 1.
GO USA NUMBER 1!!!

you want something to become popular you need to dominate at it.
like the chinese dominate table tennis reason why it became so popular there.

 

[NextLevel]

Why not badminton? Its much more fun in my opinion then pickleball. Pickleball its just mix between badminton and tennis. I guess its made for people who don't like to move

The lower athleticism demands are definitely where Pickleball beats badminton, I find overhead swings are harder on many people as we age as well as moving large distances. Running around isn't great for old knees either.

 

[piligrim]

The lower athleticism demands are definitely where Pickleball beats badminton, I find overhead swings are harder on many people as we age as well as moving large distances. Running around isn't great for old knees either.

Chess would be even better then. No overhead swings, no moving required. Good for knees )))))

 

[NextLevel]

Chess would be even better then. No overhead swings, no moving required. Good for knees )))))

Chess has no physical movement though - that is what kills it. That said, most of the top chess players are in great physical shape. The brain was first and foremost designed to move its host.

 

[Kopp]

Pickleball is an expensive sport 😔

 

[ThePongCommenter]

americans are very proud folk.
they don't like to adore/submit to other nationalities.
they could never go "oh yeah I love ma long, waldner is so cool, timo boll is my idol...."
they need their own national heroes so now they have andre agassi and andy roddick playing pickleball so they all go play pickleball to defend their national pride and say "oh yeah baby we are number 1 in the world!!" ..... exactly as they do with football, baseball, hockey and all their national sports which only they play.

You couldn't be more wrong... in the American TT crowd, Ma Long, ZJK and Boll were overwhelming favorites. Few people really care about Kanak and Lily even domestically. In basketball, Jokic, Giannis and Wemby are universally loved by American fans while Lebron, Durant and Harden are very controversial and hated by many.

There are many reasons why pickleball has exploded in popularity, and a washed up Andre Agassi playing it is not one of those reasons. The sport was rapidly growing long before Agassi entered the scene.

If you're going to criticize Americans, at least try to know what you are talking about first.