Viscaria user dilemma

[Chrupciok]

Hi, I'm having a bit of a dilemma with the Viscaria. I have a model that weighs just under 84 grams and has a speed of just under 1400 Hz, so it's not overly fast, which is great for me.

I've been using it for a while now and I overaly think it's a great blade. It has this amazing advantage that the better the quality of your stroke (footwork, power and angle), the more it "helps" the stroke.

The problem is that I'm getting older and slower. I notice that if I'm late or something else goes wrong with my stroke, the blade swings to the other side of the pendulum. In short, it's a bit unforgiving. Of course, I see this as motivation to improve, but sometimes I just want to enjoy the game and feel more confident and safe.

After this long introduction, the question is: what blade would you recommend that will support a mid-gears spin game and give me a little more room for error? The balance on the handle is welcome - I bought a Donic Extreme to test it, but it turned out to be quite head-heavy and somewhat springy.

 

[merlin el mago]

Inner?

 

[Chrupciok]

Inner?

Yes, I tested Donic Extreme, which is an innerfiber blade, slightly slower (1350 Hz) 2xlimba-carbon-kiri. As you can see, innerfiber alone isn't necessarily enough in my case.

 

[merlin el mago]

If inner not enough try 7 plies all wood.

 

[Jslick89]

what does the vibration frequency measure in terms of performance? like you mention 1400 and say that is slow. what would be considered a fast Hz frequency? sorry not trying to derail i just think it might be finally time for me to learn.

also, when you say unforgiving, do you mean that you're hitting a lot of balls into the net? or long? or just all over the place and not consistent?

 

[Chrupciok]

what does the vibration frequency measure in terms of performance? like you mention 1400 and say that is slow. what would be considered a fast Hz frequency? sorry not trying to derail i just think it might be finally time for me to learn.

also, when you say unforgiving, do you mean that you're hitting a lot of balls into the net? or long? or just all over the place and not consistent?

"Blade frequency tends to reflect blade stiffness and inherent speed. The higher the frequency, the stiffer and faster the blade." Like it is not showing exact blade speed but can be indication of it. You can find spreadsheet with a whole list of various measurements.

Table Tennis Blade Frequency (Speed) Compendium

docs.google.com

I'm lacking arc on bh side, spinny flicks etc. Blocking is fine(ish)but i'm not feeling 100% safe doing it.

 

[muhammad]

I like Outer carbon baldes with auyous cores. They have the same responsivness as all outer carbon blades, linear respose (no threshold after witch the blade is fast like inner carbon blades ), less bouncy in short games than inner carbon blades, and generally more forgiving than outer carbon blades with kiri core.

unfortunately only stiga makes such blades. Other brands use kiri core for outer carbon blades, like viscaria, which makes blades faster and less forgiving.

Currently I play with Carbonado 145 and I like it, but it is out of production as usual with Stiga. Reading specs and online reviews I think the nearest blade to it will be I1, but I didn't use it.

Or you can get one custom made.

 

[anubhav1984]

"Blade frequency tends to reflect blade stiffness and inherent speed. The higher the frequency, the stiffer and faster the blade." Like it is not showing exact blade speed but can be indication of it. You can find spreadsheet with a whole list of various measurements.

Table Tennis Blade Frequency (Speed) Compendium

docs.google.com

I'm lacking arc on bh side, spinny flicks etc. Blocking is fine(ish)but i'm not feeling 100% safe doing it.

I would probably recommend a Butterfly Lin Gaoyuan ALC for a similar playing characteristics to what you are looking for. Those are relatively harder to find though, these days.
I do have a similar blade, made by Yinhe (made for the DPRK national team player Ri Jong Sik) that plays very close to the Lin Gaoyuan ALC, and in some aspects even better. I have loved playing with that blade. It plays better than my viscaria (which is also in the same weight range of 88-89 gms).
The thing that I liked most about the Ri Jong Sik blade was that it had ample amount of top end gears and the lower end was lacking power like some of the other blades do. it doesn't have the famous w968 type springy effect on high end power shots but it does deliver quite a punch, none the less. So definitely pretty linear on the higher end and very controllable on the lower end.

 

[ZSQ]

If you’re already used to the Butterfly blade, I’d recommend the Tomokazu Harimoto ALC. Even though it’s an inner-carbon blade, it still delivers that distinct Butterfly feel. Compared with the Viscaria, it offers higher forgiveness and slightly lower speed, which suits your current playing style well.

 

[Chrupciok]

If you’re already used to the Butterfly blade, I’d recommend the Tomokazu Harimoto ALC. Even though it’s an inner-carbon blade, it still delivers that distinct Butterfly feel. Compared with the Viscaria, it offers higher forgiveness and slightly lower speed, which suits your current playing style well.

I played with the Harimoto ALC before switching to the Viscaria. It was a nice blade, but the larger head and too much vibration were dealbreakers for me. I'm considering the Carbonado 45 since my local supplier has it in stock.

 

[disaster3]

Think about something which have similar structure to what you are playing now. I tested/am still testing a lot of blades. And mostly plays with Viscaria type blades. Golden Viscaria was my primary blade, and this moment I am playing FZD ALC (same as Viscaria but the piece I owned are "super-special" and have something I can't describe but suits me the most). When I thought that "Viscaria" is to fast but would like to remain the same characteristic always came back to Timo Boll ZLF. Structure is the same as Viscaria, Koto on Top, (outer-structure blade), normal head-size 150x157 but ZLF (fiber w/o carbon) instead of ALC, makes TB ZLF slower to "Viscaria" but with the similar characteristic. Whenever I feel that I want to slow down, TB ZLF is always on top to choose. I know that it's difficult to find now, only 2nd hand, but the same structure has also Xiom Hugo Calderano HAL or the new one from Joola ARY-x (copy of Xiom HAL). If i would like to stick to the same characteristic, i.e.: Outer-structure blade, Koto on top, normal head-size (150-157), but slower, above would be my first choice to seek on the market.

I owned 2x TB ZLF and Xiom HAL, and I'm not going to sell them. I will play them when "Viscaria" become too fast for me. Now it suits my playing style.

 

[AmanooMan]

If you do not want to lose out on speed but want more safety, maybe a fast inner-type blade (like DONIC Anders Lind Hexa Carbon) would be a good idea. I haven't tried this blade myself, but according to reviews, it is quite similar to Viscaria in terms of speed while being an inner-type blade.

 

[dingyibvs]

If you do not want to lose out on speed but want more safety, maybe a fast inner-type blade (like DONIC Anders Lind Hexa Carbon) would be a good idea. I haven't tried this blade myself, but according to reviews, it is quite similar to Viscaria in terms of speed while being an inner-type blade.

One of my clubmates used the Lind blade for a while, it's indeed a pretty outer feeling inner blade, but at least the one he had was fairly head heavy and very fast when hit hard. In that respect it's still got some of the non-linear response of inner blades.

 

[lodro]

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005759694547.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.5c821b365Czvm0&algo_pvid=2abfdb40-3c38-418d-bb32-541b87ee85a0&algo_exp_id=2abfdb40-3c38-418d-bb32-541b87ee85a0-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22order%22%3A%2211%22%2C%22eval%22%3A%221%22%2C%22fromPage%22%3A%22search%22%7D&pdp_npi=6%40dis%21NZD%2184.59%2184.59%21%21%21311.55%21311.55%21%402101de2517921155139793478e10ba%2112000050305700337%21sea%21NZ%21139609019%21X%211%210%21n_tag%3A-29919%3Bd%3A11abd131%3Bm03_new_user%3A-29895&curPageLogUid=2dp3lf2Lij9S&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A%7Cx_object_id%3A1005005759694547%7C_p_origin_prod%3A

This is exactly what you need

 

[Archosaurus]

what does the vibration frequency measure in terms of performance? like you mention 1400 and say that is slow. what would be considered a fast Hz frequency? sorry not trying to derail i just think it might be finally time for me to learn.

also, when you say unforgiving, do you mean that you're hitting a lot of balls into the net? or long? or just all over the place and not consistent?

The acoustic vibration frequency doesn't have a direct correlation to any performance parameter, but a blade that's stiffer than another otherwise identical blade should also vibrate faster because frequency is a function of mass and spring rate.

Note that this DOES mean you can probably have a blade that's the same stiffness but lighter and vibrates faster due to that, and it might not have an elasticity difference compared to a heavier blade that vibrates slower.

A higher stiffness blade all else equal is always more elastic. This is true for rubbers too although they're more complicated.

The number people give in Hz is the one for bending which is the relevant axis. I think the other peaks do correspond to other axes which are less relevant.

 

[Chrupciok]

One of my clubmates used the Lind blade for a while, it's indeed a pretty outer feeling inner blade, but at least the one he had was fairly head heavy and very fast when hit hard. In that respect it's still got some of the non-linear response of inner blades.

I thought about Lind Hexa Carbon but went Donic Extreme which is also inner blade, and plays somewhat similar to Viscaria but it is more springy due to limba outer veener. Same kiri core makes blade suprisingly close to Viscaria in general terms, but it has also kinda trampoline kick in higher gears. Definitely i would seek outer blade as I like that feeling more than inner. Just like muhammad wrote above - maybe outerfiber blade with ayous core is what i'm looking for. Unfortunately only Carbonado series seems to check all demands. Inner with ayous is no-go.

 

[ttarc]

I like Outer carbon baldes with auyous cores. They have the same responsivness as all outer carbon blades, linear respose (no threshold after witch the blade is fast like inner carbon blades ), less bouncy in short games than inner carbon blades, and generally more forgiving than outer carbon blades with kiri core.

unfortunately only stiga makes such blades. Other brands use kiri core for outer carbon blades, like viscaria, which makes blades faster and less forgiving.

Currently I play with Carbonado 145 and I like it, but it is out of production as usual with Stiga. Reading specs and online reviews I think the nearest blade to it will be I1, but I didn't use it.

Or you can get one custom made.

Did you try some outer blades with e.g. basalt or glass fiber?
KTS Foundation GF.K (koto, glass fiber, ayous, kiri) but also their Foundation ALC is slower than most other ALC blades 1), Loki Rxton 5 Pro Outer (koto, basalt carbon, ayous, kiri) or Loki Rxton 9 Pro Outer (koto, basalt GNF, ayous, kiri 2)). Other more controlled/easier to use ALC options: 729 Blue Arylate or 729 Crazy Victory 1, Loki Telson Speed (and I still didn't manage to test a DHS TG506A/HL5A)

You might find a replacement for the Carbonado 145 in TTGearLab's database but it might also be the case that Stiga is still producing this blade and only sells it in China (Stiga China showcases and sells a lot of blades that are long gone in Europe)
1) https://ttgearlab.com/2024/03/15/performance-indices-db-outer-fiber-blades/

2) edit: basalt GNF is the new version https://www.lokisport.com/pro_55564266.html the old version used afair basalt CNF

 

[muhammad]

Did you try some outer blades with e.g. basalt or glass fiber?
KTS Foundation GF.K (koto, glass fiber, ayous, kiri) but also their Foundation ALC is slower than most other ALC blades 1), Loki Rxton 5 Pro Outer (koto, basalt carbon, ayous, kiri) or Loki Rxton 9 Pro Outer (koto, basalt GNF, ayous, kiri 2)). Other more controlled/easier to use ALC options: 729 Blue Arylate or 729 Crazy Victory 1, Loki Telson Speed (and I still didn't manage to test a DHS TG506A/HL5A)

You might find a replacement for the Carbonado 145 in TTGearLab's database but it might also be the case that Stiga is still producing this blade and only sells it in China (Stiga China showcases and sells a lot of blades that are long gone in Europe)
1) https://ttgearlab.com/2024/03/15/performance-indices-db-outer-fiber-blades/

2) edit: basalt GNF is the new version https://www.lokisport.com/pro_55564266.html the old version used afair basalt CNF

No I didn't try any of these blades. Thanks for the info.

 

[waingro]

Butterfly released Outerforce ALC for exactly this purpose.