Weight training in the gym to improve explosiveness

[Zwill]

Recently I have started to go to the gym before my regular table tennis training, which is not ideal but I have free time like this.
So far from the 3 occasions I have been at the gym I only trained for my legs and core muscles. My goal is not to build muscle mass, just to get more explosive power. Since for long I was thinking that weight lifting with arms will take away from fine motor functions I avoided them, but a new clubmate said that the weights I should lift would not do that. I am also concerned about bulking up, I don't want that either.

I was recommended to do deadweight lifting for core strength and for my back, and that I should do weight lifting with arms too, it will not be harmful. It would only be harmful if I did it with extreme weights.

I suppose there are people here who lift so I'm curious what exercises would improve explosiveness and what machines to use since at this point I don't even know the names of each machine and how to use them properly. That new clubmate offered me some assistance in the gym to show/teach me how to do deadweight lifting safely and some other stuff.

 

[Wrighty67]

Weight training is almost always going to be a benefit in sports, as long as you are specific in your execution. Almost any movement can be done with lighter weight and an emphasis on an explosive contraction in order to trigger fast twitch muscle fibres. I would focus on lunges, front squats, walking lunges using a count of say 1-2 up (contraction) and 3-4 down. Box jumps, standing vertical and long jumps are also great and all will develop core and lower body strength and speed.

Upper body : bench press, overhead shoulder press, lat pull downs etc.

I would use free weights and not machines - make sure you have the movement correct before adding any real weight, and focus on that explosive contraction.

 

[Attitude]

Weight training is almost always going to be a benefit in sports, as long as you are specific in your execution. Almost any movement can be done with lighter weight and an emphasis on an explosive contraction in order to trigger fast twitch muscle fibres. I would focus on lunges, front squats, walking lunges using a count of say 1-2 up (contraction) and 3-4 down. Box jumps, standing vertical and long jumps are also great and all will develop core and lower body strength and speed.

Upper body : bench press, overhead shoulder press, lat pull downs etc.

I would use free weights and not machines - make sure you have the movement correct before adding any real weight, and focus on that explosive contraction.

I would agree except for your last point. If Zwill is a beginner in the gym who lacks the main muscles to perform decent freeweight excercises i would stick to machinetraining first.
Usually it takes about some months up to a year, depending on age, trainingfrequency and genetics, until you reach the level you need to perform freeweight excersises safely.

Btw that comes from someone with around 10 years training experience in the gym, at nearly every aspect.

A slight different point for Zwill: As long as your recovery stays fine and you dont suffer from many days of musclesoreness you should be fine with going first in the gym and then tt-training. Although depending on how hard you train in the gym, this might hinder your performance at the table anyway.

Edit: One more thing. If you want to train explosivness, you can put that thought into nearly every excercise.
Meaning you should focus on performing the concentric part of every movement as fast as possible and slowing down at the eccentric.
And if you keep at the lower to moderate weight range you shouldnt build that much muscle with it. If your reprange can get up around 15-20+ per excercise (for reference this counts for many exercises but not for all) the capability of building muscle should reach a deadend way earlier as with a lower reprange and higher weights.

 

[SFF_lib]

Recently I have started to go to the gym before my regular table tennis training, which is not ideal but I have free time like this.
So far from the 3 occasions I have been at the gym I only trained for my legs and core muscles. My goal is not to build muscle mass, just to get more explosive power. Since for long I was thinking that weight lifting with arms will take away from fine motor functions I avoided them, but a new clubmate said that the weights I should lift would not do that. I am also concerned about bulking up, I don't want that either.

I was recommended to do deadweight lifting for core strength and for my back, and that I should do weight lifting with arms too, it will not be harmful. It would only be harmful if I did it with extreme weights.

I suppose there are people here who lift so I'm curious what exercises would improve explosiveness and what machines to use since at this point I don't even know the names of each machine and how to use them properly. That new clubmate offered me some assistance in the gym to show/teach me how to do deadweight lifting safely and some other stuff.

Without putting on weight, there's not much room to improve explosiveness.

You must train anterior, posterior and lateral muscles at the same time. Imbalance in muscle groups can lead to injuries.

Best to get a personal trainer or adopt a professional training schedule.

Athlean X and Jeremy Ethier are high regarded trainers on Youtube.

 

[dingyibvs]

Recently I have started to go to the gym before my regular table tennis training, which is not ideal but I have free time like this.
So far from the 3 occasions I have been at the gym I only trained for my legs and core muscles. My goal is not to build muscle mass, just to get more explosive power. Since for long I was thinking that weight lifting with arms will take away from fine motor functions I avoided them, but a new clubmate said that the weights I should lift would not do that. I am also concerned about bulking up, I don't want that either.

I was recommended to do deadweight lifting for core strength and for my back, and that I should do weight lifting with arms too, it will not be harmful. It would only be harmful if I did it with extreme weights.

I suppose there are people here who lift so I'm curious what exercises would improve explosiveness and what machines to use since at this point I don't even know the names of each machine and how to use them properly. That new clubmate offered me some assistance in the gym to show/teach me how to do deadweight lifting safely and some other stuff.

Regular weight lifting will mostly just improve bulk, not explosiveness. You're gonna wanna do Olympic lifts to improve explosiveness, particularly core explosiveness.

Exercises like squats and deadlifts are very helpful, but you need to do them explosively and not slowly. Don't confuse explosively with recklessly, every inch of movement needs to be deliberate and under 100% control. The easiest way to get injured is to lift without control, that and not keeping your station clean.

In general though, IMO for us amateurs practice and improving form will result in the best gains.

 

[Zwill]

Thanks guys, these are some good advices.

@Wrighty67
Regarding jumping I'm pretty good, I used to play volleyball and I have high elevation.
And I do a lot of rope skipping, which is beneficial for timing, rhythm and also cardio AF. I like to do double turns in serial and after I just do random rhythm stuff, or close eyes, maybe backwards...

This clubmate also recommended that I should do a pushing and a pulling exercise for the upper body.

@Attitude
I'm pretty strong, even tho I never went to do lifting in gyms. In high school in the "gym" I did some bench presses out of curiosity since some of my classmates were lifting regularly, but I could do what they did. I feel like I'm way too self-aware now lol.

Muscle soreness... yeah that is a great point. Wednesday I did a session (for the first time ever) on the adductor machine, if that is the name. And that day I could train OK, but Friday!!! What the hell, I could barely walk I couldn't really split my legs much, it's Sunday now I can walk fine, but doing a bigger split is still painful.

Okay, so you are saying it's better to more reps with lower weight and move them explosively over to lift bigger weights. I guess lifting bigger weights is in itself kind of an explosiveness but for sure I can't to as much reps.

@SFF_lib
I saw some videos from Athlean X before, for at home exercises and dietary advice. I wish I had time to get a pro trainer, well maybe at other gyms there are trainers, I will see what I can get out on my own and with the help of friends and the help of the internet first.

@dingyibvs
Yeah, I wish I was brave enough for Olympic lifting lol, maybe once I am more confident I will try it with help of course.

I think form is very important too, just like in table tennis (or any sport). I am reckless enough at the table where I am familiar, in the gym I won't be.



So I wonder which one is "better", bigger weights or lower weights with more reps and doing them explosively?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

agree get a trainer who knows how to train for table tennis

There are many core training I have seen given by physical trainers, to focus on explosiveness.
and they hardly use weights.

 

[dingyibvs]

Thanks guys, these are some good advices.

@Wrighty67
Regarding jumping I'm pretty good, I used to play volleyball and I have high elevation.
And I do a lot of rope skipping, which is beneficial for timing, rhythm and also cardio AF. I like to do double turns in serial and after I just do random rhythm stuff, or close eyes, maybe backwards...

This clubmate also recommended that I should do a pushing and a pulling exercise for the upper body.

@Attitude
I'm pretty strong, even tho I never went to do lifting in gyms. In high school in the "gym" I did some bench presses out of curiosity since some of my classmates were lifting regularly, but I could do what they did. I feel like I'm way too self-aware now lol.

Muscle soreness... yeah that is a great point. Wednesday I did a session (for the first time ever) on the adductor machine, if that is the name. And that day I could train OK, but Friday!!! What the hell, I could barely walk I couldn't really split my legs much, it's Sunday now I can walk fine, but doing a bigger split is still painful.

Okay, so you are saying it's better to more reps with lower weight and move them explosively over to lift bigger weights. I guess lifting bigger weights is in itself kind of an explosiveness but for sure I can't to as much reps.

@SFF_lib
I saw some videos from Athlean X before, for at home exercises and dietary advice. I wish I had time to get a pro trainer, well maybe at other gyms there are trainers, I will see what I can get out on my own and with the help of friends and the help of the internet first.

@dingyibvs
Yeah, I wish I was brave enough for Olympic lifting lol, maybe once I am more confident I will try it with help of course.

I think form is very important too, just like in table tennis (or any sport). I am reckless enough at the table where I am familiar, in the gym I won't be.



So I wonder which one is "better", bigger weights or lower weights with more reps and doing them explosively?

Definitely lower weights with more reps and explosively! I do train with heavy weights a couple months a year, but that's because my wife has spurts each year when she wants to get fit/toned/etc. and wants a training partner. I don't think it helps my TT at all, if anything getting more muscle mass is hurting my already poor flexibility. Looks good in a mirror though

 

[Wrighty67]

I would agree except for your last point. If Zwill is a beginner in the gym who lacks the main muscles to perform decent freeweight excercises i would stick to machinetraining first.
Usually it takes about some months up to a year, depending on age, trainingfrequency and genetics, until you reach the level you need to perform freeweight excersises safely.

Btw that comes from someone with around 10 years training experience in the gym, at nearly every aspect.

A slight different point for Zwill: As long as your recovery stays fine and you dont suffer from many days of musclesoreness you should be fine with going first in the gym and then tt-training. Although depending on how hard you train in the gym, this might hinder your performance at the table anyway.

Edit: One more thing. If you want to train explosivness, you can put that thought into nearly every excercise.
Meaning you should focus on performing the concentric part of every movement as fast as possible and slowing down at the eccentric.
And if you keep at the lower to moderate weight range you shouldnt build that much muscle with it. If your reprange can get up around 15-20+ per excercise (for reference this counts for many exercises but not for all) the capability of building muscle should reach a deadend way earlier as with a lower reprange and higher weights.

I respectfully disagree - free weights are a challenge but, in my view not something to be avoided because of this. They have a steeper learning curve but are ultimately safer and allow a freer range of movement for people at any level (btw that comes from someone with 30 years working in the fitness industry and training with weights, and an ACSM qualification ;-)

 

[turbozed]

A lot of bro science gets thrown when the topic of weight training gets tossed around a non-weight-training-focused forum.

There's been a couple decades of everyday online battles over the mintuae of it all. From optimal rep ranges to sarcoplasmic vs myofibrilar hypertrophy. I've lurked and read it all, having my viewpoints changed towards one way or the other.

Here's some easy advice in Q&A format:

1. Should you weight train? Absolutely yes. It benefits almost every athletic endeavor so every high level athlete is doing it in one way or another for their sport. The science is also unequivocal that it provides quality of life, strength (obviously) and cognition benefits (not so obvious).

2. Will you get 'too big' if you start weight training? Absolutely not. Nobody on the planet has ever gotten jacked and huge by accident. Those giant walking slabs of inflexible muscle you see have devoted a couple hours a day, most days of the week, over the span of many years to get that big. Many are using steroids and prohormones. Almost every single extremely muscular man you've ever seen in any media is on some form or another. Just take a look at drug-tested (i.e. 'natural') bodybuilding to see the absolute limits of hard work at the gym (it's not very impressive).

3. What should I do at the gym? Alright this is the much harder question since there's an infinite combination of exercises to focus on at the gym.

The first thing you want to get out of your brain is that theres some optimal rep range that you need to shoot for. When it comes to strength and hypertrophy, doing low rep sets vs high rep sets makes very little difference compared to total volume. So do enough where your muscles start to get fatigued (look into the RPE system for this). Not so much weight where it's dangerous and you break form. Not so many reps that you are exhausted and don't have any energy for TT training.

Second is to not worry about what sort of hypertrophy (muscle growth you're getting). Latest science suggests that there's really no way for an average gym goer to separate training for 'fast twitch' vs muscle size. They both go along together. Therefore do exercises that will maximize muscle size and strength in the least amount of time and energy as possible.

This brings us to the concept of CNS fatigue. Basically, we humans do have a stamina bar. Although we can make that bar bigger by getting in shape, eventually programing weight training will mean less mental energy for sport skill training. For instance, I love deadlifting. But its widely known to be a highly fatiguing lift and trying to max out your potential there will be a waste of energy if your main goal is TT. I'm sure someone like FZD can hit a 600 lbs deadlift in a few years of training, but there's be zero point.

Funny enough, the advice I would give OP is the same advice I got 15 years ago. Find a beginner strength program, don't sweat the details (ignore stuff like plyometrics for now), work hard in the gym, and don't take too many days off from the program. After a few months to a year you'll have reached like 80% of your "easy" strength potential and you can reassess from there. You want to spend as little time thinking about weights as possible so you have more time focusing on TT skills training and matches.

 

[dingyibvs]

I respectfully disagree - free weights are a challenge but, in my view not something to be avoided because of this. They have a steeper learning curve but are ultimately safer and allow a freer range of movement for people at any level (btw that comes from someone with 30 years working in the fitness industry and training with weights, and an ACSM qualification ;-)

Absolutely free weights. Not for all exercises (some are just not possible with free weights) but there are many advantages to using free weights.

A lot of bro science gets thrown when the topic of weight training gets tossed around a non-weight-training-focused forum.

There's been a couple decades of everyday online battles over the mintuae of it all. From optimal rep ranges to sarcoplasmic vs myofibrilar hypertrophy. I've lurked and read it all, having my viewpoints changed towards one way or the other.

Here's some easy advice in Q&A format:

1. Should you weight train? Absolutely yes. It benefits almost every athletic endeavor so every high level athlete is doing it in one way or another for their sport. The science is also unequivocal that it provides quality of life, strength (obviously) and cognition benefits (not so obvious).

2. Will you get 'too big' if you start weight training? Absolutely not. Nobody on the planet has ever gotten jacked and huge by accident. Those giant walking slabs of inflexible muscle you see have devoted a couple hours a day, most days of the week, over the span of many years to get that big. Many are using steroids and prohormones. Almost every single extremely muscular man you've ever seen in any media is on some form or another. Just take a look at drug-tested (i.e. 'natural') bodybuilding to see the absolute limits of hard work at the gym (it's not very impressive).

3. What should I do at the gym? Alright this is the much harder question since there's an infinite combination of exercises to focus on at the gym.

The first thing you want to get out of your brain is that theres some optimal rep range that you need to shoot for. When it comes to strength and hypertrophy, doing low rep sets vs high rep sets makes very little difference compared to total volume. So do enough where your muscles start to get fatigued (look into the RPE system for this). Not so much weight where it's dangerous and you break form. Not so many reps that you are exhausted and don't have any energy for TT training.

Second is to not worry about what sort of hypertrophy (muscle growth you're getting). Latest science suggests that there's really no way for an average gym goer to separate training for 'fast twitch' vs muscle size. They both go along together. Therefore do exercises that will maximize muscle size and strength in the least amount of time and energy as possible.

This brings us to the concept of CNS fatigue. Basically, we humans do have a stamina bar. Although we can make that bar bigger by getting in shape, eventually programing weight training will mean less mental energy for sport skill training. For instance, I love deadlifting. But its widely known to be a highly fatiguing lift and trying to max out your potential there will be a waste of energy if your main goal is TT. I'm sure someone like FZD can hit a 600 lbs deadlift in a few years of training, but there's be zero point.

Funny enough, the advice I would give OP is the same advice I got 15 years ago. Find a beginner strength program, don't sweat the details (ignore stuff like plyometrics for now), work hard in the gym, and don't take too many days off from the program. After a few months to a year you'll have reached like 80% of your "easy" strength potential and you can reassess from there. You want to spend as little time thinking about weights as possible so you have more time focusing on TT skills training and matches.

I just want to add some caveats, the volume vs reps debate is settled within a certain range of reps. The studies done on them compared between lower rep ranges like 4 to 10 reps per set IIRC. If you're doing 30, 50, 100 rep sets it won't result in the same hypertrophy, strength gain, or endurance gain.

Also, while you won't get jacked like Mr. Olympia without steroids, you can certainly become muscular enough to inhibit your flexibility without steroids.

 

[Attitude]

Thanks guys, these are some good advices.

@Wrighty67
Regarding jumping I'm pretty good, I used to play volleyball and I have high elevation.
And I do a lot of rope skipping, which is beneficial for timing, rhythm and also cardio AF. I like to do double turns in serial and after I just do random rhythm stuff, or close eyes, maybe backwards...

This clubmate also recommended that I should do a pushing and a pulling exercise for the upper body.

@Attitude
I'm pretty strong, even tho I never went to do lifting in gyms. In high school in the "gym" I did some bench presses out of curiosity since some of my classmates were lifting regularly, but I could do what they did. I feel like I'm way too self-aware now lol.

Muscle soreness... yeah that is a great point. Wednesday I did a session (for the first time ever) on the adductor machine, if that is the name. And that day I could train OK, but Friday!!! What the hell, I could barely walk I couldn't really split my legs much, it's Sunday now I can walk fine, but doing a bigger split is still painful.

Okay, so you are saying it's better to more reps with lower weight and move them explosively over to lift bigger weights. I guess lifting bigger weights is in itself kind of an explosiveness but for sure I can't to as much reps.

@SFF_lib
I saw some videos from Athlean X before, for at home exercises and dietary advice. I wish I had time to get a pro trainer, well maybe at other gyms there are trainers, I will see what I can get out on my own and with the help of friends and the help of the internet first.

@dingyibvs
Yeah, I wish I was brave enough for Olympic lifting lol, maybe once I am more confident I will try it with help of course.

I think form is very important too, just like in table tennis (or any sport). I am reckless enough at the table where I am familiar, in the gym I won't be.



So I wonder which one is "better", bigger weights or lower weights with more reps and doing them explosively?

I will ignore most parts here in this thread because i dont have the time looking up the statistics and research that backs up my point of things. There are huge loads of statistics and research at place for this kind of topic so i just wanted to define the word "explosivness".

Doing movements in an explosive manner is meaning you move something or someone (like yourself) from point A to point B but in a fast way.
For example a sprinter will train for explosivness to reach the goal of 100m faster than a marathonrunner ever be capable off.

Meaning for your goals imo, there is 0 benefit to test out your next personalbest in a deadlift for example. It would be more important to lift a certain weight faster, this idea of explosive training could be transitioned to nearly every exercise. Those would be pretty helpfull especially for hip-, and armmovement excercises for obvious reason.
Beside that just check around for some athlete-workouts, they should all help.
And for some in depth thoughts and motivation you can check out this guy:

Have fun training^^

 

[lodro]

good for training "explosive moves" would be to go to a boxing gym.

 

[OldUser]

As a VB player too, that has to be fast and low for side moves because I'm a libero (so it's the same training as a table tennis player), elastic bands will do the same than weights, if not better to avoid injuries. I use a 55-125 lbs band for squats and deadlifts. I also use it for upright rows to the chin, it's really a good exercise for shoulders.

For other shoulder exercises I use mostly the 25-65 lbs, and the 15-35 lbs for all core, abs exercises requiring rotations: I do BH and FH loops with the band under the opposite foot for BH, and under the same foot for FH.

The only weight I use is a very light 8 Kg kettlebell for the single leg bulgarian squat, at the very end of the session cos' this one always kills me.

 

[igorponger]

All IN ONE.
I like doing boxing job twice a day. Punching the sandbag on early morning gonna to normalize my blood viscosity, and the night exersises is to vent my ander out. Pretty enjoyable job to my entire heart content. I have this 15 kg pendant bag installed right in my bedroom door frame.
Again, apart of anything else, you shall get a springiness of footwork, more breathing capacity and "crushing all" racket hand .

[video]

 

[Zwill]

Yesterday I did weight training to my arm, one pulling and one pushing exercise. Just being moderate in both. Actually I am disappointed in myself if I have to be honest.

For pulling I just did the cable row machine, if that is its name with 50kg, and I did like 70 reps, like 10x7 splits. Probably I should do higher weight, but I need to get a glove since the bar hurt my hand.

For pushing I did the smith machine? which looks like a safer way to bench. Now here I am super disappointed, I put on like 40kg, and as soon as I lift it I scrambled to hook it back since I couldn't really move it up much. Maybe I was in a bad position too since my arm was not folding to my shoulder but lower, anyways 40kg was waaay too much lol. So I went back to do it with 20kg, but it's just so weird... okay with 20 I did reps of 7 5-6 times but it was hard like that too. It's weird, I can do pushups much much better than this... But at least at the end I could feel my arms like they were "inflated", or not sure how to describe the feeling.

I did some other stuff too for my back and legs too.

 

[Wrighty67]

Yesterday I did weight training to my arm, one pulling and one pushing exercise. Just being moderate in both. Actually I am disappointed in myself if I have to be honest.

For pulling I just did the cable row machine, if that is its name with 50kg, and I did like 70 reps, like 10x7 splits. Probably I should do higher weight, but I need to get a glove since the bar hurt my hand.

For pushing I did the smith machine? which looks like a safer way to bench. Now here I am super disappointed, I put on like 40kg, and as soon as I lift it I scrambled to hook it back since I couldn't really move it up much. Maybe I was in a bad position too since my arm was not folding to my shoulder but lower, anyways 40kg was waaay too much lol. So I went back to do it with 20kg, but it's just so weird... okay with 20 I did reps of 7 5-6 times but it was hard like that too. It's weird, I can do pushups much much better than this... But at least at the end I could feel my arms like they were "inflated", or not sure how to describe the feeling.

I did some other stuff too for my back and legs too.

Cable row is a good machine - back primarily but will also work biceps. Smith machine is safe but I would go for grabbing two dumbbells (go for 8-10kg or less) and get used to pressing with these on a flat and incline bench.

20kg on a bar for a smith press is plenty - 40kg is a lot to start with so don't feel bad - there is a lot of technique in a bench press. I would stick to 3 sets of 12 per movement as 7 sets is a hell of a lot of time that could be spent on other varied movements.

 

[Zwill]

Lol thanks! Now that I tried the smith machine it's good, but I had to wait for it, and after finishing myself I was thinking if it was worth the wait or not. There are some very lonely dumbbells so I will do that next time, there are adjustable angle benches.

Gym is a funny place, before I started around 4:30pm and the place had more women which is fine, last night I went around 7pm and it had more big guys. But the funny part is they make these stupid sounds all the time and I can hardly keep myself from laughing.

 

[turbozed]

Lol thanks! Now that I tried the smith machine it's good, but I had to wait for it, and after finishing myself I was thinking if it was worth the wait or not. There are some very lonely dumbbells so I will do that next time, there are adjustable angle benches.

Gym is a funny place, before I started around 4:30pm and the place had more women which is fine, last night I went around 7pm and it had more big guys. But the funny part is they make these stupid sounds all the time and I can hardly keep myself from laughing.

You, too, will start making noises if you wind up lifting to the limits your strength.

Also, the biggest and scariest looking dude in the gym will probably be the most friendly and helpful when it comes to asking for advice. Remember that these people dedicate hours of their day in search of their own idea of self improvement. Ask guys like that for advice on anything (form, strength programs, etc.) and they will turn into your free personal trainer. If you are too shy for something like that, you can post videos of yourself lifting on reddit subreddit /r/formcheck.

The gym can be intimidating for beginners. But you'll find the 'serious' lifters to be extremely friendly and supportive. The same cannot be said about the 'good' players at most TT clubs who will have nothing to do with beginners.

 

[CLV]

https://www.youtube.com/@PeakPerformanceTableTennis

is a youtube channel with some good fitness exercices for table tennis