What Are Hybrid Table Tennis Rubbers and Why Are They So Popular Nowadays?

[RobinAndres]

Depends a bit yes! Rxton 5 and LAC i tried boosted and unboosted but never really got to a full in depth review (pity) but I still have gtx pro at home and likely will continue at some point with Rxton 9 and so

A lot to test still in the world of rubbers and I want to do more blades as well, so I ll keep going!

Let us now when you try GTX pro. Do you think it is a good option for it's price? I'm searching for cheap rubbers that with boosting are competitive. I still need to try the LAC boosted since everyone say wonderful things about it.

 

[victormanriquey]

Will do! Im thinking of getting a durometer for next year to be a bit more accurate in my hardness assessments

 

[Archo]

Will do! Im thinking of getting a durometer for next year to be a bit more accurate in my hardness assessments

Shore O is generally very reasonable for TT rubbers and measures in a reasonable way. I would suggest a Shore O durometer and to not try to make any kind of "conversions" between A and O, just measure as-is. It will give you an indicative number for most rubbers. You can usually expect a 50 to feel harder than a 45 and so on.

Shore A is fine for dense sponges, but the thickness of them is too low for a good reading, and it will be quite strange and nonsensical in very progressive, soft sponges. I would not suggest only buying a Shore A durometer. The numbers you get won't be as understandable as with an O durometer.

You could get both, but it will double the measuring time and not tell you that much more about the rubber because Chinese sponges are measured independently from the topsheet so you will basically never actually get the same numbers. O is somewhat less affected by that.

 

[victormanriquey]

Shore O is generally very reasonable for TT rubbers and measures in a reasonable way. I would suggest a Shore O durometer and to not try to make any kind of "conversions" between A and O, just measure as-is. It will give you an indicative number for most rubbers. You can usually expect a 50 to feel harder than a 45 and so on.

Shore A is fine for dense sponges, but the thickness of them is too low for a good reading, and it will be quite strange and nonsensical in very progressive, soft sponges. I would not suggest only buying a Shore A durometer. The numbers you get won't be as understandable as with an O durometer.

You could get both, but it will double the measuring time and not tell you that much more about the rubber because Chinese sponges are measured independently from the topsheet so you will basically never actually get the same numbers. O is somewhat less affected by that.

Thanks makes sense, will have a look

 

[Kilogramme]

None of this is scientifically verified, but:

The different National versions are more or less dense formulations of Seamoon with a dye. The order should be something like Black > White > Yellow > Seamoon. I don't know where Red, Brown, 2017 or any other obscure versions fall.

The peak effect lasts a day or two or so, then a stable high effect for 1 to 2 weeks (Haifu claims +8.5% for 1 week for Black), then drop off to nothing after about 3 to 4 weeks.

They all soften the sponge maximally as much (Maxing out at around 9deg softening for many sponges I've boosted 4-6 times to see where it reaches asymptote) although the stronger national boosters soften it faster, and denser sponges soften more per layer.

Black softens the sponge the easiest and Seamoon the hardest. However you need less of Black to get a similar elasticity effect as with Seamoon, so maybe there's a breakpoint where you get more elasticity than you get softening. I have no clue where the idea that Black softens the sponge less comes from; I find on average 1deg more per layer (2ml or so) than with Seamoon.

I've found on less dense sponges with Seamoon it can be as little as 1deg per layer, while on dense sponges with Black it can be as much as 3deg per layer.

In practical use I haven't noticed a real difference other than National boosters are stronger so you can get less added racket mass for the same softening and elasticity. Black and White are a lot stickier and much harder to evenly apply than Seamoon, and harder to drain back into the bottle. I haven't tried Yellow but under spectrometry it's identical to Seamoon so it's probably just a denser variant as well.

I read that on PROTT or Ali seller website I think about the white being between the 2. Can't remember. I see many opposite comment on Boosters in general. Depending on the application method we can have different results.
And The black softening less, is from this https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/booster-mega-test.26522/

 

[victormanriquey]

I read that on PROTT or Ali seller website I think about the white being between the 2. Can't remember. I see many opposite comment on Boosters in general. Depending on the application method we can have different results.
And The black softening less, is from this https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/booster-mega-test.26522/

All I can say on boosters is that the national yellow is thicker and stronger than the commercial version, I have them now both at home and tried them lately, seems like the national is more concentrated. Black or white haven't tried yet

 

[Kilogramme]

All I can say on boosters is that the national yellow is thicker and stronger than the commercial version, I have them now both at home and tried them lately, seems like the national is more concentrated. Black or white haven't tried yet

That is for sure, Nat is better than Seamoon.

 

[andymagata]

Great read! Thanks. Can I write out what I am thinking of right now? Is it the top sheet or the sponge what gives a tensor rubber it’s main characteristic? Is a tensor sponge just a regular dense “Chinese” sponge filled with holes, air or gas? A topsheet can be anti, pimpled, grippy or tacky? A sponge can be bouncy, linear or dampening?

 

[victormanriquey]

Great read! Thanks. Can I write out what I am thinking of right now? Is it the top sheet or the sponge what gives a tensor rubber it’s main characteristic? Is a tensor sponge just a regular dense “Chinese” sponge filled with holes, air or gas? A topsheet can be anti, pimpled, grippy or tacky? A sponge can be bouncy, linear or dampening?

Thanks! A lot of good Qs

- It's always both in a rubber, whether is tensor or tacky, but usually with tacky rubbers there is more emphasis on the topsheet because of that tackiness, even though it's well known that what makes a hurricane a true hurricane is the sponge with the booster. But for a tensor the sponge usually has bigger pores/less thick walls and also the pips are less and taller, of all that helps with a bouncy behaviour. But touching one of those things affects the rest a lot, so plenty of variability there
- A sponge is classified by many things, but what we call a tensor is often what I mentioned above. Sponge composition is never shared by manufacturers so I cannot comment on that, but the easiest way to say whether is a tensor or a tacky or a hybrid is to look at it and to feel it and to play it. Then you know clearly how it behaves
- Topsheet can be inverted or not yes, if inverted you can have more or less tacky and everything in between including anti, and if pimples are out then you have short, medium and long pips
- Finally yes, a rubber is either absorbing and not giving back (basically you get less than what came into it), linear (you get what you put into it) or bouncy/non-linear/tensored where you get more than what you put into it. Also here plenty of variability when it comes to gears!

 

[Archo]

Thanks! A lot of good Qs

- It's always both in a rubber, whether is tensor or tacky, but usually with tacky rubbers there is more emphasis on the topsheet because of that tackiness, even though it's well known that what makes a hurricane a true hurricane is the sponge with the booster. But for a tensor the sponge usually has bigger pores/less thick walls and also the pips are less and taller, of all that helps with a bouncy behaviour. But touching one of those things affects the rest a lot, so plenty of variability there
- A sponge is classified by many things, but what we call a tensor is often what I mentioned above. Sponge composition is never shared by manufacturers so I cannot comment on that, but the easiest way to say whether is a tensor or a tacky or a hybrid is to look at it and to feel it and to play it. Then you know clearly how it behaves
- Topsheet can be inverted or not yes, if inverted you can have more or less tacky and everything in between including anti, and if pimples are out then you have short, medium and long pips
- Finally yes, a rubber is either absorbing and not giving back (basically you get less than what came into it), linear (you get what you put into it) or bouncy/non-linear/tensored where you get more than what you put into it. Also here plenty of variability when it comes to gears!

Just a correction, but there's no rubber out there that can increase the energy of the shot. They can all only reduce it. Tensors are just much less damped and hysteretic and they reduce it much less, by about 0.2 to 0.3 CoR.

They could increase the energy in the shot if they had some kind of active power generation, like a motor.

 

[victormanriquey]

Just a correction, but there's no rubber out there that can increase the energy of the shot. They can all only reduce it. Tensors are just much less damped and hysteretic and they reduce it much less, by about 0.2 to 0.3 CoR.

They could increase the energy in the shot if they had some kind of active power generation, like a motor.

Sometimes some hybrids feel like they do

But yes true haha was just a way of speaking, easier to understand

 

[Archo]

Sometimes some hybrids feel like they do

But yes true haha was just a way of speaking, easier to understand

Human kinesiology is unreliable as far as what is actually happening, but I think you're right giving it another think.

IIRC an EPAR of 0.5 would mean that input speed = output speed, because half of the energy gets lost. So that would be linear.

EPAR of 1.0 would mean that the ball flies out at twice the input speed, because no energy is lost. Of course no rubber is like that, but real ones have been measured to be even around 0.80, which is definitely very bouncy. That's at low speed of course, I doubt many rubbers are over 0.50 at high speed.

This is also with a solidly fixed surface that you can assume has "infinite mass" compared to the ball and won't move when hit by it, but in reality the bat will deflect and while it has a lot more mass than the ball, it's not gonna be infinite either, so in a real human's hands I bet EPAR is even lower.

 

[latej]

Let me know how long it lasts. The biggest issue I had with ZGR is the top sheet longevity.

The durability is not really good. This is after 3 weeks, let's say 11 sessions.

I like the rubber, coming from Chintac 575, the way how the gears work suits me quite well... On the other hand, a bit of a disadvantage is the amount of spin, when compared to the H3/R9, those are other extremes... I feels like people block me well in exchanges... Something a bit slower with more spin... Not sure what I'll take next... The Nuzn 48 on the BH, I think at least 2x as long already, looks less used that the ZGR, so I am considering Nuzn 55 for the FH. Or Xiom C575 since I really loved C55, but there the durability is even worse than ZGR... Or Trinity Charged. The problem with all these is, they are more expensive ;-) I won't go for D09C, good, but I still have it on Viscaria to be spent... Cheers.

EDIT: Considering T05H ;-)

 

[Haito]

View attachment 44034

This is really badly destroyed. Its really sad. I had the same experience with majority of ESN tacky rubbers.

 

[AMonteiro]

My experience with ZGR is despite looking bad, it still plays decently.

In other hand, ZGX last a lot less compared to ZGR.

I heard from a top junior player in Brazil who use Joola that Trinity series (Charged and Dynamic) have better durability compared to Dynaryz Z series.

 

[victormanriquey]

Thanks for the info on durability! Looks bad indeed. I can say too that durability on Trinitys looks much better indeed, after 1 month they look new

 

[Grumms]

I ordered a Trinity Charged. It seems to have one of the lowest angle, I like the low angle of the H3-like.

 

[Grumms]

What I would like is a ESN rubber that would have the same behaviour than my very boosted Target National. I'm a little fed up with the chinese quality inconsistency (though quality of Target has been quite consistant with my last 3 sheets). D09c seems to have a very high arc, which then is not of my wishing. NUZN 55 seems a good fit but it's 80€, a little expensive for a test. And I wanted one of the very latest rubbers, which removes Rakza XH, Bluegrip C, Xiom C55, etc... Was remaining Stiga Helix Hybrid, Joola Hugo, Tibhar K3 (and K3 begins to be "old" I think), Iconixx (durability evaluation made me remove it) or Bluegrip J1. I saw a new Xiom Tau 55,5°, but too recent enough. The price is surprising me for a novelty, it might mean that it's not as advanced as I would like.

Sales and evaluated arc made me take Hugo Charged, even if Bluegrip J1 is quite cheap on TT11 (45€).

 

[Archo]

What I would like is a ESN rubber that would have the same behaviour than my very boosted Target National. I'm a little fed up with the chinese quality inconsistency (though quality of Target has been quite consistant with my last 3 sheets). D09c seems to have a very high arc, which then is not of my wishing. NUZN 55 seems a good fit but it's 80€, a little expensive for a test. And I wanted one of the very latest rubbers, which removes Rakza XH, Bluegrip C, Xiom C55, etc... Was remaining Stiga Helix Hybrid, Joola Hugo, Tibhar K3 (and K3 begins to be "old" I think), Iconixx (durability evaluation made me remove it) or Bluegrip J1. I saw a new Xiom Tau 55,5°, but too recent enough. The price is surprising me for a novelty, it might mean that it's not as advanced as I would like.

Sales and evaluated arc made me take Hugo Charged, even if Bluegrip J1 is quite cheap on TT11 (45€).

Probably worth quitting early, because nothing will be like it.

 

[victormanriquey]

Probably worth quitting early, because nothing will be like it.

Haha its indeed a tough one, best answer is Hurricanr 3 Neo Blue Sponge boosted, second best group likely Battle 2 (and the likes), D09c (and the likes), Charged, that's pretty much that.

Im finishing now the target national review @Grumms , the one in metallic silver, unboosted, and I will already say its not my preference, but its not bad, for the same job I prefer Battle 2.

But regardless of that, I have not found a truly boosted BS H3N alternative yet, it seems not to exist yet

Will test Rxton 9 OS soon, not same as BS ofc, but I liked it a lot last week, so who knows, maybe Im surprised here!