What if Felix Lebron switched his equipment. . .

[TareqPhoto]

Strange, but for me I found Vega pro and X to be a real disappointment. Heavy, sluggish and lacking any real dynamics to distinguish them - in comparison Hammond Z2 and Q quality were both outstanding!

That is why i don't rush, i tried Hammond Z2 and it is a love, didn't try Q, so i am still skeptical about trying another Xiom rubbers such as Pro or Asia or Japan, but i could give it a try one day who knows, heavy hard rubbers is my enemy really, mainly on a heavy blade itself, so i will try to stay within good weight and performance rubber whenever i can, Hammond and G-1 are amazing great, and now i added Rakza XX which is also nice but will give it a time for test.

 

[TareqPhoto]

Probably not very suited. It's not so much the short arm but he doesn't rotate enough to generate max power.

Felix's game is not about power but sheer speed. Harimoto was super fast on the BH but not so much on the FH, Lebrun is super fast on both BH and FH.

So Lebrun will do more than Harimoto in next years when ML is almost retiring and FZD is aging and other Chinese aren't in stable levels always?

 

[JJ Ng]

Well, all what i can say is that the budget is a factor or a matter of time, this month or maybe next month i don't go for expensive rubbers but later i can even buying that expensive H3 National one if i have to, it is just i have time to decide until my blade arrives next month and taking my time.

So, is that C-1 better than Rakza 7 soft or not? I mean if it is better than i go for it, if not and only getting closer then i better stay with R7soft why change, it is not that i hate Rakza 7 soft, it is just i liked it and i am willing to use something better if so, not something less or same, i prefer softer because i can manage to return a lot of spinny serves, and when i attack it is much safer than harder to medium sponges, i might accept a hard sponge but so soft top sheet, but not that both are soft or both are hard.

Not interested in Tibhar rubbers for now, i am happy with Nittaku and few Yasaka rubbers, so i don't want to add more brands like Tibhar and Stiga and Donic and Andro and whatever, i will never stop then, most likely i try to have like 2-3 main blades which i use for practice and play and then another 2-3 blades for fun only, i might buy a third Long 5X later with ST handle and make it my main playing racket and leave the other two for practice, so i don't have to change rubbers a lot.

Oh, that's hard to say. I think if you like Rakza 7 soft, then you ought to give C-1 a try. They are close but not exactly the same rubber.

For example, I have played with Hurricane 3 neo and TG3 neo. They are similar rubbers but after playing with them, I keep on going back to Hurricane 3 neo. Hurricane 3 neo just has that bounce that TG3 neo does not have.

 

[JJ Ng]

Strange, but for me I found Vega pro and X to be a real disappointment. Heavy, sluggish and lacking any real dynamics to distinguish them - in comparison Hammond Z2 and Q quality were both outstanding!

Maybe. I have not tried Hammond Z2 and Q yet so I don't know. I like Vega Pro and Vega X enough to keep them on my spare blade. Once I am ready to move much one level of hardness from Vega Asian and Vega Japan, I already have a couple sheets of Pro and X ready too.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Eventually threads will drift inevitably to Dignics / Tenergy is the da best and nothing else matters.

Silence prevail for a while...

Until another forum participant starts another thread; Hi, I am looking for a rubber that can make me fly, walk through wall, walk on water. Can you guys recommend?

And so we go through this deja vu cycle again.

I love TT!

 

[TareqPhoto]

Oh, that's hard to say. I think if you like Rakza 7 soft, then you ought to give C-1 a try. They are close but not exactly the same rubber.

For example, I have played with Hurricane 3 neo and TG3 neo. They are similar rubbers but after playing with them, I keep on going back to Hurricane 3 neo. Hurricane 3 neo just has that bounce that TG3 neo does not have.

That is the point, it is really suck to go with another rubber to find out that you like the older one better, so you return back to it, i tried T64 and T80 and both never satisfied me like T05, i tried MXP and Rakza 9 and both didn't satisfy me as for example G-1 and Hammond Z2, and so one.

For now i can't tell which one i prefer more, Razka 7 soft or Xiom Vega Europe, they aren't on same blades to confirm, but they are both nice on whatever blades they are on, so i assumed that both are nice, so i believe from your post that C-1 is the Nittaku equivalent to Yasaka 7soft or Xiom VE.

 

[TareqPhoto]

Eventually threads will drift inevitably to Dignics / Tenergy is the da best and nothing else matters.

Silence prevail for a while...

Until another forum participant starts another thread; Hi, I am looking for a rubber that can make me fly, walk through wall, walk on water. Can you guys recommend?

And so we go through this deja vu cycle again.

I love TT!

Yes, Butterfly Tenergy and Dignics can do that for you, it will make you invisible and even can see X-ray, well, any topic in table tennis forums is always about blades and rubbers no matter how much we all drift away, even talking about Ma Long himself we will keep talking about his equipment and then talking about alternative options out there, so Lebrun's brothers aren't exceptional in that case.

 

[JJ Ng]

That is the point, it is really suck to go with another rubber to find out that you like the older one better, so you return back to it, i tried T64 and T80 and both never satisfied me like T05, i tried MXP and Rakza 9 and both didn't satisfy me as for example G-1 and Hammond Z2, and so one.

For now i can't tell which one i prefer more, Razka 7 soft or Xiom Vega Europe, they aren't on same blades to confirm, but they are both nice on whatever blades they are on, so i assumed that both are nice, so i believe from your post that C-1 is the Nittaku equivalent to Yasaka 7soft or Xiom VE.

I have to say, C-1 is slightly less catapulty than Rakza 7 soft and more catapulty than Xiom Vega Europe. Nowadays I find Xiom Vega Europe to be too soft but I still put it on my faster blades such as Stuor Viscaria clone just to have fun with it. Xiom Vega Europe to me is great on a fast, hard blade to slow it down.

 

[TareqPhoto]

I have to say, C-1 is slightly less catapulty than Rakza 7 soft and more catapulty than Xiom Vega Europe. Nowadays I find Xiom Vega Europe to be too soft but I still put it on my faster blades such as Stuor Viscaria clone just to have fun with it. Xiom Vega Europe to me is great on a fast, hard blade to slow it down.

Those are the blades i am using, fast carbon ones, so i try to have a bit softer to slow down my blade speed, such as Long 5X blade.

 

[TT Lover]

Ok, so you and I like the same thing.

My suggestions:

1. Xiom Vega Asia or Japan. Both are a bit harder than Xiom Vega Europe. And both are a bit more catapulty than Europe. I find Japan's top sheet to be softer and slightly better quality. But I like both. These two would be the most budget friendly options.

2. C-1. I find C-1 to play closely with Rakza 7 soft. Maybe slightly less catapulty. C-1 is a very good rubber.

3. Donic BlueFire M2. I just recently started using this rubber because, well, it comes in blue. I like it so far. I think it is slightly harder than Rakza 7 soft. I have a sheet of M1 that I have not installed yet. By pressing on it, M1 reminds me of G1. M3 might be too soft for you. You can try M2 if you want.

4. Rakza 7. Obvious choice if you like Razka 7 soft and you are ready for a harder sponge. Personally, I have a sheet of Rakza 7 regular and a sheet of Rakza X regular in original packaging. I am not ready to open either packages because my BH is not ready for them yet.

5. Tibhar EL-S, EL-P or EL-D. So I have played with MX-P, MX-S, EL-S, and FX-P and FX-D. I like the series ok. They are slightly more expensive than Rakza 7 soft and C-1. Some people complain that the rubber do not play well after a couple of months. I don't feel that way though. FX-D and FX-P are fine. They are now too soft for me. MX-P I had one sheet before and I did not like it. MX-S is too hard for my carbon blade and it works wonderfully sitting on the BH of a 7-ply all wood blade. I have had two sheets of EL-S and I like them. They are just about the right hardness right now for my BH development. The Tibhar Revolutions series seem to be more catapulty than G-1/C-1, Xiom Vega Series and Rakza series but less cataputly than Tenergy fx series.

In summary, I don't think you need to go Tenergy or Dignics yet. There are plenty of ESN rubbers for you to upgrade to. For example, I have played with Xiom Vega Pro and Xiom Vega X. They are both on my spare blades right now. Just too hard for me at this point.

What is the sponge hardness degrees of Xiom Vega Japan and Donic Blue Fire M2 ?

Thank you sir.

Best regards,

 

[TareqPhoto]

Ok, i continue my discussion here with JJ Ng into private, sorry for drifting so much, i apologize, so get back to track and on topic.

Lebrun brothers are fun to watch, i am happy to watch them playing and improving, not sure for how long they will be in forms, and not sure if they won't change their equipment, but if it is working for them then why change unless if they find something better, but it is all about final results, changing to better equipment with bad results is a bad changing then, they know what they are doing, so let them decide by themselves or their parents or coaches, Ma Long did change in years without much of losing, i heard that most Chinese players started with Viscaria anyway and slowly they changed, so we will see if Lebrun or even Sweden will change their equipment for better.

 

[JJ Ng]

What is the sponge hardness degrees of Xiom Vega Japan and Donic Blue Fire M2 ?

Thank you sir.

Best regards,

I have to dig up an old thread started by me. Xiom Vega Japan is 45 degree. Donic BlueFire M2 should also be 45 degree. Why I said that is, I believe somewhere people have said that Rakza 7 soft is about 37-42 ESN degree hardness. And I believe that's true. We cannot trust that the manufacturer is going to get the hardness right on every single sheet so maybe some sheets of Xiom Vega Japan would be harder than some sheets of Donic BlueFire M2, and vice versa.


Degree of sponge hardness:

54°: Vega CHINA
47,5°: Vega X, ASIA, PRO, INTRO, LPO
45°: Vega TOUR, JAPAN
42,5°: Vega EUROPE, ASIA DF, SPO
40°: Vega ELITE
37,5°: Vega EUROPE DF

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

So Felix now has free consulting information on equipment experts opinion from TTD

 

[blahness]

So Lebrun will do more than Harimoto in next years when ML is almost retiring and FZD is aging and other Chinese aren't in stable levels always?

Not so easy, there were a lot of speed based players recently but they too had bottlenecks (for eg Hirano, Ito Mima, Chuang Chih Yuan, Yan An), but they all shined at a very young age. Most World Champions in recent years are more power based. Harimoto is building up a lot more on the power aspect to complement his speed at the moment. So his FH wing is now mainly powerlooping with emphasis on spin and less fast short stroke counter like Felix Lebrun.

 

[TareqPhoto]

Not so easy, there were a lot of speed based players recently but they too had bottlenecks (for eg Hirano, Ito Mima, Chuang Chih Yuan, Yan An), but they all shined at a very young age. Most World Champions in recent years are more power based. Harimoto is building up a lot more on the power aspect to complement his speed at the moment. So his FH wing is now mainly powerlooping with emphasis on spin and less fast short stroke counter like Felix Lebrun.

Asian players are different than non Asian players, really i can see the difference, but for example Felix is now trying to match many players even Chinese themselves, Harimoto had a time where many people hoped that he will match Chinese and give them a hard time, but recently maybe since last year i didn't see him shining, he is still a difficult competitor, but he lost more nowadays, while other non Chinese players are like the Eclipse, they might stand out once every 3-4 years.

So after the retirement of say ML and FZD maybe, are we going to see Europe getting closer to Asia at some points? 3 years ago i saw that Truls reached the final of WTTC but lost heavily to FZD, so if it wasn't FZD will the result be different then? Lebrun defeated FZD once, and i think another top Chinese player, so i hope their stars isn't rising for short time.

 

[blahness]

Asian players are different than non Asian players, really i can see the difference, but for example Felix is now trying to match many players even Chinese themselves, Harimoto had a time where many people hoped that he will match Chinese and give them a hard time, but recently maybe since last year i didn't see him shining, he is still a difficult competitor, but he lost more nowadays, while other non Chinese players are like the Eclipse, they might stand out once every 3-4 years.

So after the retirement of say ML and FZD maybe, are we going to see Europe getting closer to Asia at some points? 3 years ago i saw that Truls reached the final of WTTC but lost heavily to FZD, so if it wasn't FZD will the result be different then? Lebrun defeated FZD once, and i think another top Chinese player, so i hope their stars isn't rising for short time.

No, it's simply that speed and power is a dichotomy because for any one ball, you can only select one hitting point. Mind you Felix Lebrun is not even yet at Harimoto's level. Harimoto beat Ma Long and Zhang Jike at age 14 and many other extremely good players, and only last year beat both FZD and Wang Chuqin in the same tournament, and also beat Lin Gaoyuan in a few important tournaments. Felix has yet to beat a main CNT player.

 

[TareqPhoto]

No, it's simply that speed and power is a dichotomy because for any one ball, you can only select one hitting point. Mind you Felix Lebrun is not even yet at Harimoto's level. Harimoto beat Ma Long and Zhang Jike at age 14 and many other extremely good players, and only last year beat both FZD and Wang Chuqin in the same tournament, and also beat Lin Gaoyuan in a few important tournaments. Felix has yet to beat a main CNT player.

That is why i said Asian players are different than non Asian players, so Harimoto was able to do such in earlier age, but he didn't continue, and at the end in the 3 major big tournaments or events are still dominated by Chinese, i can't remember in the last 10 years or a decade the gold medal slipped away from China, also WTTC the last two were done by FZD and previously ML was the master, same in World Cup although this one i see it the least, Alexis Lebrun did beat FZD in Macao, i heard that Felix also beats one of CNT recently but i can't remember, maybe not yet but he might soon, Europeans are late to improve quickly, and it sounds now people are focusing on Felix and forgotten Alexis already.