Who can challenge the Chinese?

[Tricon7]

IMHO, there are only about four non-Chinese players who can reasonably hope to take down one of the top Chinese players - and an outside shot at that (listed in descending order of odds of success):

1. Boll
2. Samsonov
3. Mizutani
4. Joo Se Hyuk

Boll has a 50/50 shot at beating any of them, except for perhaps Wang Hao, who's been owning him lately. If Samsonov plays well, he has a chance (remember the World Cup in 2010?), along with Mizutani. Hyuk has beaten them before, and I think he can, but it's a slim chance. As far as the other top non-Chinese players, maybe Ryu Sung Min (sp.?) has a shot, but it's a long one, which is the same for all the others. I don't know where Maze disappeared to, but when he was healthy he would have made my top four list. It's a pity that we don't have any Walders, Perssons, or Appelgrens to go head-to-head with the Wang Haos, Ma Lins, Zhang Jikes, and Ma Longs.

 

[WiWa]

I think Ryu and Maze belong to the list as well. But with the upcoming generation of Korea and Japan, some new heros might step up. But for now we rely on the 'old masters' to show their form of years ago every now and then. That's how Samsonov, Oh Sang Eun and Joo could have a chance.

 

[Michal_Z]

Well, Samsonov has to have his day.. then he can beat everyone.. We have seen that in World Cup 2010 and also in Kuwait open 2008 I think, there he beat Wang Hao, Chen Qi and also Ma Lin I think.. Or it was 2009? Not sure.. hehe..
Anyways, Maze has still one year left to get back, remember last World cup? He managed to win one set with Wang Hao, he just came there without playing anywhere else and won one set.. Amazing..
And.. Boll, yes.. he can beat them all..
He had a good chance beat Wang Hao last time in CSL .. but he lost from 10:6 lead, disappointing..
But Boll is a great player.. maybe he can get some good tricks in CSL and he can make a miracle
Lets hope so!

And.. another players?
Mizutani has a potencial.. I saw him playing really agressive in Shakehand vs. Penhold.. if he keeps that spirit and trains hard, he can get some chinese trophys

As for another players.. ?
Ovtcharov has a chance sometimes - even Wang Hao - said, that Dima is bigger danger for him than Boll.. He has full respect for him..
Ryu had a good chance against Wang Hao in WTTC this year.. but at the end he lost.. But he still can surprise.. But I dont think he will do so..
And that is all from me

 

[scylla24]

As the old group of challengers grows old, their chances of winning will steadily decrease.

Niwa Koki's style is pretty solid, and he is good at blocking and has a good feel, so he might be the next Mizutani in terms of his chances of beating the Chinese, that is, not great, but the chance is there.

The trio of rising Koreans has have the best chance of all I think. Since they have each other to play against and improve from, and therefore the training they get will be pretty high quality. Lee Sang Su already beat Xu Xin in their last meeting. I don't think any of them are at the level to beat Ma Long yet, because their style of play doesn't have any advantages against him, but they might get closer as they progress.

 

[chughtai]

i think kisikawa can be a threat as well as he showed in japan open

 

[WiWa]

Right I forgot Ovcharov. He hasn't played against the Chinese for a long time I think, I hope that moment will come soon. If Niwa keeps improving his game I think he can be one of the best players in the world. About Kishikawa I'm not sure, his game relies a lot on his blocking which gives him trouble against players who play with a lot of powerful shots. But he definitely has talent, I think he needs to play more aggressive maybe. But we will see Also a new generation of Chinese are coming up from whom we don't really know the strenght yet.

 

[nightwolf34]

the korean rising stars have a chance, the new generation of koreans definitely can play table tennis in that level I think of the europeans that shivaeb and lebesson and gauzy if they grow better can have a chance

 

[YosuaYosan]

i think kisikawa can be a threat as well as he showed in japan open

Not much I think..
Unless he keeps improving fast..

Korean youngsters have the best chance..

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

It is too bad that other countries cannot get together and create a training program for their up and coming players that brings them to the top levels. To me it looks like under 17 China's prospects are not that different from other countries. And then between the ages of 16 or 17 and 21 something changes and the Chinese players get better a lot faster and the young prospects of other countries peak and plateau before they get to their full potential.

 

[scylla24]

It is too bad that other countries cannot get together and create a training program for their up and coming players that brings them to the top levels. To me it looks like under 17 China's prospects are not that different from other countries. And then between the ages of 16 or 17 and 21 something changes and the Chinese players get better a lot faster and the young prospects of other countries peak and plateau before they get to their full potential.

Yeah I definitely agree. But I think part of that is also because until recently, China has kept its under 17 players under wrap, so we never got an impression of how good they really were. Ma Long and Lin Gaoyuan are two big exceptions, who appeared quite early and even then were clearly very promising and above their levels of their same age group.

During the ages of 17-21 is when the body for the most part finishes most of its development, and you can start adding more strength onto your frame, so that more than anything I think really helps the Chinese players shoot past their other colleagues, and also the fact that the promising ones are then elected to join the National Team either B or if they are really good A. After which they get top training, and the ability to play and train against top players.

 

[scylla24]

Seiya Kishikawa, has a good feel and all around game, like most of the Japanese, but his footwork and speed are awful. He definitely has the ability to beat some of the Chinese players on a good day, but I think the main thing is to be a true challenge to the Chinese, you have to have the ability to beat everyone one of their players. Otherwise, you maybe beat one of them, but then the next round lose out to another who has a different style of play. Boll is the only one who has exhibited the ability to do that, whereas Seiya, does horribly against Ma Lin's style of play, and general pen hold style.

 

[WiWa]

Does Koki Niwa play in the Superleague by the way? He should, as soon as possible. I found it pretty impressive that he beat Lin Gaoyuan. His style might be an answer to the Chinese style. Up till now the only way to beat Chinese seems to be to get about the same style as them, which is attaccking as much and as aggresively as possible. Maybe Koki holds the key, and he should develop it. I believe in him haha.

 

[scylla24]

Does Koki Niwa play in the Superleague by the way? He should, as soon as possible. I found it pretty impressive that he beat Lin Gaoyuan. His style might be an answer to the Chinese style. Up till now the only way to beat Chinese seems to be to get about the same style as them, which is attaccking as much and as aggresively as possible. Maybe Koki holds the key, and he should develop it. I believe in him haha.

Nah, I don't think his style is that great. Its a good all around style, and he has good feel, but the reason why he did well against Lin is because atm Lin doesn't have the power required to overcome his blocking style. Once players get older and get more power, and their attacks become of higher quality, Niwa's style of more blocking isn't nearly as effective.

 

[WiWa]

But Lin did beat Oh with his power. Sure he is gonna develop and be stronger, but Niwa doesnt have the block only. His placement is very good in service-receive, which makes it harder for the opponent to get full power on it. This allows him to get into his blocking game. That is in fact also the way Oh Sang Eun beat the Chinese in his better days. But there is absolutely no guarantee that Niwa will make it indeed, but his current game play just gives me good hopes It is pleasant to watch.

 

[Michal_Z]

Yes, Niwa was pretty awesome to beat two chinese in a row..
Maybe he will develop to best in the world

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

In looking at Kishikawa, in the Japan Open, he was pushing over and over and waiting for Mizutani to attack first. Mizutani's third ball attack is not strong enough, and Kishikawa picked it apart. But he could not do that to the Chinese players and he does not have enough power. So, slow, not enough power, not enough speed in his footwork, does not sound too good. I think Mizutani is better than him but I think Mizutani also has glaring weaknesses. He seems too content when he gets put on defense and he does not have the ability to do it the way Michael Maze used to.

I would agree with those who said that Timo Boll is the only one who has the ability to take on the Chinese players and it is only some of them some of the time.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

It is true that, if Koki Niwa is just 16 years old, if he gets more power and his game develops, he might have a shot at giving the Chinese problems. But that is a lot of ifs. And I think the real issue is getting a few teams together, like what the Swedes had in the 1980s and 90s to challenge the whole Chinese team. Because if you are just one player and you are trying to walk through the whole Chinese team, with how they go out of their way to ensure that they have several different styles of player--penhold, reverse penhold backhand, shakehand--one person going through the whole team is a tough task. But a team collectively helping take out the other team and then seeing who the last man standing is so it is not just the Chinese fighting themselves in the semi-finals, would be nice. Or a couple of countries being able to produce prospects that could handle the level of play the Chinese demonstrate over and over again.

In the World Championships, there were six Chinese players in the quarter-finals. In the semi-finals there was 1 player who was not Chinese. And the finals were an all Chinese affair. In the quarter-finals, Boll faced Chen Chi. He is a good player but he is ranked lower than any of the other Chinese players who were in the quarter-finals. If he was in a different bracket, he might not have gotten to the semi-finals. And Zhang Jike really took care of Boll at the Worlds.

So the point is, Timo needs some help.

 

[YosuaYosan]

I think everyone can challenge the Chinese but winning is another matter..

Joo could be a threat to the chinese in competitions..
Defensive style theoritecally cripples looper style. In this case, playing with Joo will drain lots of stamina from the chinese player.
While its true the Chinese could beat Joo easier now, Joo's game is quite a hindrance to Chinese players.
However this is my opinion.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I think everyone can challenge the Chinese but winning is another matter..

Joo could be a threat to the chinese in competitions..
Defensive style theoritecally cripples looper style. In this case, playing with Joo will drain lots of stamina from the chinese player.
While its true the Chinese could beat Joo easier now, Joo's game is quite a hindrance to Chinese players.
However this is my opinion.

No, it is a good point YosuaYosan. Even if Joo does not win, the next person to play who ever beats Joo has a better chance. That is teamwork. So some of those teams should think about getting a good chopper in the mix to tire the Chinese players out or better yet, to frustrate them and win.

 

[Anders]

I think that every team, club or national, needs a defender to disturb the opponents with maximum effect.

Next season I hope to be that defender on the 1st team in my club here in Norway.