Fraser Riley - 1 - WHO IS THE BEST YOUNG PLAYER IN THE WORLD?

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Yep. If you got what I was saying, I think his age might be accurate and some have been fooled by how he matured. I think Zeio's video is excellent, showing him look like a kid when he was a kid. :)

I can't say either way. I won't speculate. Especially since I was saying and am saying it is not worth speculating when you don't have any really information.

But, I think his age is more likely accurate than not. :) I just can't say anything with conviction because, like almost everyone on the site, we just don't know. :)

It's quite obvious when you look at football (soccer for our US friends here): Pelé didn't look that young, nor MBappé, Rashford, Fati.

It's not only because of body development at a given age, it is because of training mostly: those youngsters have entered a whole different world, with athletics, muscles reinforcement. If you compare the average 19 years old boy at your local club to Harimoto, there are huge differences, muscles are less defined for instance.
 
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You make ridiculous claims like you get paid for it.
:D Oh my... I laughed hard, and yes you're right since Kallberg has nothing to do in that topic cos' he was born in 1997, that post was off-topic so.

Seriously, if you wanna know who's the best european player nowadays, it's obviously Falck: his ranking, results in international competitions speak for themselves. For the women it's tricky between Polcanova, Solja, Han, Szocs and Eerland...

Best european young player ? if you look at the ITTF rankings, U21 Europe section, it's the french Bastien Rembert, and for the women it's the Romanian Andreea Dragoman.

Biggest hopes, and biggest potential so, are for Vladimir Sidorenko (Russia) as he's only 18 and ranked 7 in that section, and for the women Prithika Pavade as she's ranked 8 and only... 16 !

Also, I would tell the OP something important to me: you didn't mention any women. How about Sun Yingsha ? Mima Ito ? it's likely to become a classic as Navratilova-Evert don't you think ?
 
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:D Oh my... I laughed hard, and yes you're right since Kallberg has nothing to do in that topic cos' he was born in 1997, that post was off-topic so.

Seriously, if you wanna know who's the best european player nowadays, it's obviously Falck: his ranking, results in international competitions speak for themselves.

Best european young player ? if you look at the ITTF rankings, U21 Europe section, it's the french Bastien Rembert, and for the women it's the Romanian Andreea Dragoman.

Biggest hopes, and biggest potential so, are for Vladimir Sidorenko (Russia) as he's only 18 and ranked 7 in that section, and for the women Prithika Pavade as she's ranked 8 and only... 16 !

Kallberg is a good player who seems to have made a major improvement this year, but to say he is "not even at 60% of his potential" is a stretch. He is 23 years old and has been a stalwart of the ITTF scene for a long time now. He will improve some but it is not likely going to be two-fold.

My post was more about that Konrad called Harimoto, one of the fastest players on the tour, slow, and said that LYJ "doesn't care".

Pavade is a really big talent. Dragoman is nothing special.
 
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Yep. If you got what I was saying, I think his age might be accurate and some have been fooled by how he matured. I think Zeio's video is excellent, showing him look like a kid when he was a kid. :)

I can't say either way. I won't speculate. Especially since I was saying and am saying it is not worth speculating when you don't have any really information.

But, I think his age is more likely accurate than not. :) I just can't say anything with conviction because, like almost everyone on the site, we just don't know. :)

I think I meant to quote Archyan on that one.
 
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Kallberg is a good player who seems to have made a major improvement this year, but to say he is "not even at 60% of his potential" is a stretch. He is 23 years old and has been a stalwart of the ITTF scene for a long time now. He will improve some but it is not likely going to be two-fold.

Totally agree: we've seen the same with Gauzy... and now he's no more than ranked 20 at 26. The major factor: how regularly will one of those euro players be able to beat a top 10 chinese player ? Gauzy did it once in a major tournament, but Falck does this more frequently as Boll and Ovtcharov do too, hence his top 10 ranking.

Let's see what Kallberg can do vs CNT players before making any statement, yeah...
 
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Harimoto is slow in terms running and explosive footwork.
Gauzy beat all Chinese junior players when he was young and what? He is class player.
WCQ beats Harimoto 4:0 it was funny match and that was third won with Harimoto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIOWam08D1M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKme63gv8S0
and
4:2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFztZhgl0b0
so Harimoto has hard work to be on the same level....

LYJ loose match in Japan League one year ago with 39 years old chopper WOOO HOW who was national 2019 Chinese champion WHOO HOW (WANG CHUQIN LOOSE 0:4)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWMkXurGjSk

and
LYJ loose matches in Chinese Superleague too with no name players
but he can still beat Ma Long...

But we can look on real ranking in the best European League...
TTBL.de ranking
Gauzy 14:2
Kallberg 12:1
Falck 12:5
I dont see here Timo Boll, Calderano, Sidorenko... Haha he is 5:5
Falck loose 4 matches more than A.K
Kallberg beat Gauzy like junior 3:0
Kanak, Quadri (first top 30 in ranking 3:0)
Kallberg is right now number one European player and yall probably sleep last 3 months, I dont care how old he is.... He is still young player...
Example the best player in France league
Robert Gardos is 42 years old so we can see Kallberg in maybe next 20 years...
And what ? You will be bandwagon fan when Kallberg will be European Champion
No cap
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p1daaac310
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRLI3cA7p-I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKMM81owDcI&t=18s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA5OVvEAbvg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNHTKarRiDo
FACTS
Age is only number and this is the most important in table tennis, so offtopic is not consider Anton Kallberg bye.

Let's go through the insanity of this post from start to finish. Before we start, I'll mention that you clearly didn't read my post where I said WCQ is clearly ahead of the other two, so you are arguing a point which I've already made. So you said that LYJ doesn't care, do you have any links to share that demonstrate that?


"Gauzy beat all Chinese juniors when he was young" - Konrad Bak

Gauzy played 11 matches against Chinese players when he was U18 and lost all 11 of them. Several of the matches were against players who never even "made it" and are now irrelevant. In fact, Gauzy has played 30 matches against Chinese players in ITTF matches his whole career, and has won exactly one of those matches, the 2019 World Champs against XX.

"LYJ lost a match in T League" - Konrad Bak

Who cares? It's the T. League. Against the 2019 Chinese National champion who also destroyed WCQ 4-0 so what is your point?

Throughout your post you seem to put league matches on the same level as ITTF play. And given what happened in 2020 one should wait and see how these league match results translate to tournament play. But you are right, Kallberg does look better. Top "young" player in Europe just because he had a good abbreviated Bundesliga season? Doubtful. And if at 23 years old, he hasn't even reached 60% of his potential, what does that say about his coaching and development up until this point? He has been a pro player for almost ten years.

How are your predictions about Ma Long not playing Tokyo and "having nothing to make LYJ dance" doing?
 
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Robert Gardos best player in Pro A ? lulz...
11 matches, 7 wins 4 loses, Chen (La Romagne) has crushed him and has a better ratio in Pro A.

I'm french and my club is located near La Romagne (15 km). Since years now the most consistent player in Pro A is considered to be Tianyuan CHEN, just look at La Romagne stats...
 
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I don’t agree with everything Konrad said... but I agree that Kallberg is the European player to watch, he is 23 and have played the pro tours for a while but seems to make a technique breakthrough recently, he almost becomes a totally different player, like he’s found a new way of training/playing. And european players often reach their prime in late 20s so maybe he can develop even more.
The other european to watch is Darko Jorgic. They are the two best european young players imo. I rate Kallberg a little bit higher at the moment.

Mattias Falck is 29 and imo in his prime already, while he is really good and causing problems to the Chinese players, i don’t think he can get much better.
 
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Something happened to Kallberg during lockdown; mentally, physically, he's changed and has been playing a level above what he showed before.

However, the fact that this happened during highly unusual circumstances has made me a bit worried as to wether he'll be able to keep up this level for long enough to challenge for big titles. Or at least long enough to get that career- defining win over Xu Xin on one of his off days.
 
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And even a win over XX isn't always enough: Gauzy has beaten him once, Falck too, but can they beat the other 2 big guys ? FZD or ML ?

The one who's been able to do this as a non chinese player, also non european player but playing in Europe and coached by a european is... Calderano. His rank speaks for him since years now. And he's never beaten XX. Means that beating FZD or Ma Long even once speaks more about one's player's actual rank.

The holy grail is to beat Ma Long for any euro guy.
 
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Does this even mean anything? Do you know the reason they fake their age, and in what age?

Those clips are crucial because they match up with the age/age group worked out from the news coverage, photos, and prospectus of the amateur tournaments in which he played a few years before joining the sports school in 2006, the first step to becoming a pro.

Most if not all cadet and junior tournaments in China are structured such that events are separated by age. Since there's a cut-off age by which one must make the cut, some players find the need to change their age or are urged by their coaches to buy themselves some extra time, sometimes even before they fall behind to be "on the same starting line". Most choose to do it when they are in sports schools and provincial teams(see previous link), before they become registered players of the CTTA and ITTF to gain international exposure.

Basically, there are multiple ways for fans/outsiders to validate/invalidate the age of a certain player, which can be categorized into 2 types.

Circumstantial evidence:
Past tournaments, bone age tests, news coverage, CTTA registration, junior training camps...etc. Many players are flagged this way by cross-referencing and looking for any discrepancies.

Direct evidence:
Personal info, posts, and dialogs on social media sites, interactions with fans on personal live streams...etc. Surprisingly, many put in their real DOB on social media sites. Some celebrate their birthdays on their true DOB. Some outright admit it and come clean on live streams when asked.

https://sports.163.com/13/0609/18/90US2RAS00051CAQ.html
名宿谈国内乒乓球队员改年龄 福原爱妈妈曾抱怨
2013-06-09 18:28:51 来源: 网易体育

“福原爱的妈妈曾找许绍发抱怨过中国球员改年龄的问题。她的女儿六岁就来中国打过比赛,那时候她就都拿小本子记下来了和福原爱打球的球员的打法、胜负和年龄等情况,可是过了几年这些运动员几乎全都比福原爱小了。”

在结束了东北站的全部比赛之后,“谁是球王”中国乒乓球民间争霸赛在六月转战秦皇岛进行华北站比赛。前中国乒乓球世界冠军,乒坛名宿许绍发亲临现场对选手进行点评指导,在开赛前接受记者采访的时候,许老表达了对中国乒乓球的一点担忧——乒乓球运动员中改小年龄现象严重。

许绍发认为中国乒乓球运动员普遍改年龄的原因主要在于编制有限。他说:“各体育专业队编制就那么几个,你走一个我才能进一个,要不饭钱没地方发,工资没地方发了,甚至没地方住了”

“很多改年龄的情况都是这样的,你先进队了,你俩差不多年龄,我没希望了,那我就改两岁,等机会吧。”许老这样分析。

许绍发表达了对这样做法的担忧:“但(这样的做法)又把别人压死了,这是不公平的比赛,别看小孩就差两岁,但是打球的线路就不一样,长相也不一样。我以前搞过U17的比赛,后来就不敢搞了,为什么呢,因为我就发现那些德国小孩,天天吃牛肉,长得比我们还小。而我们的队员胳膊那么粗,腿那么粗”许绍发风趣的一番话中透出了对这种现象的无奈。

福原爱的妈妈还曾经找许绍发抱怨过中国球员改年龄的问题。福原爱妈妈说自己的女儿六岁就来中国打过比赛,那时候她就都拿小本子记下来了和福原爱打球的球员的打法、胜负和年龄等情况,可是过了几年这些运动员几乎全都比福原爱小了。
Famous player talks about age-altering of domestic table tennis players, Ai Fukuhara's mother once complained
2013-06-09 18:28:51 Source: Netease Sports

"Ai Fukuhara's mother once approached Xu Shaofa to complain about the issue of age-altering of Chinese players. Her daughter came to China to compete at the age of six. At that time, she took a small notebook and jotted down the styles of the players who played with Fukuhara, wins/losses and age etc., but after a few years almost all of these players were younger than Fukuhara."

After finishing all the competitions at the Northeast leg, the "Who is the King of Table Tennis" Chinese Table Tennis Folk Championships moved to Qinhuangdao for the North China leg in June. Former Chinese table tennis world champion, Xu Shaofa, a famous table tennis player, came to the scene to comment and guide the players. When interviewed by reporters before commencing, Old Xu expressed his concerns about Chinese table tennis - the practice of age-altering among table tennis players is severe.

Xu Shaofa believes that limited quota is the main reason for age-altering commonly seen among Chinese table tennis players. "There are only a few professional sports teams. One has to move out before another one gets to move in, or else there is no place to pay for food, no place to pay wages, or even a place to live."

"A lot of cases are like the following. You have made the team first and you two are about the same age. I have no hope, then I will roll back my age by two years and wait for the opportunity," analyzed Old Xu.

Xu Shaofa expressed his concerns about this practice: "But (this practice) has crushed others to death. This is unfair competition. Do not underestimate two years of difference. The shot path is different. The looks are different as well. I used to hold U17 competitions, but then I stopped. Why? Because I found that those German kids who ate beef every day were smaller than ours. Our players had big arms and legs." Xu Shaofa's witty remarks revealed his helplessness to this practice.

Ai Fukuhara's mother once approached Xu Shaofa to complain about the issue of Chinese players altering their age. She said that her daughter came to China to compete at the age of six. At that time, she took a small notebook to write down the playing styles, wins and losses and age of the players who played with Fukuhara, but after a few years almost all of these players were younger than Fukuhara.
 
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Hi guys I’m Fraser, .....
And of course, if there’s any questions you’d like to ask me, fire away !

Thank you!

First post is like War and Peace.

One of the things I find most fascinating about this thread is actually that the OP wrote so many words that, perhaps he has filled his quota for the next 5 years which is how long it has been since he made his most recent post prior to the OP of this thread.

So, does anyone have any questions you would like him to answer? If you do, fire away! :)
 
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Does ITTF treat commentators(announcer and guest commentator alike) like umpires, with a small amount of allowance/stipend?
 
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