Who has the best push game?

[HorstFilet]

I really love the short push. I think it is quite underrated at the amateur level.
So I was wondering which current pro player has the best short push / best pushing game in general.
The first player that came to my mind was -of course- Ma Long. He did not have to rely on his BH flick because he was controlling his games with his pushes.

What do you think? Who has the best push game currently?

 

[tzifos]

Defenders like Filus. Filus can put massive underspin even with his long pimples!

 

[Dr Evil]

My nominees are... Hurricane division: LGY... non-Hurricane division: Truls

 

[blahness]

Ma Long for sure is no.1. Truls is also pretty good with short push. A few others that come into mind are Liang Jingkun (heavy af pushes loaded with underspin) who has won matches just with nasty pushes. I also really like Felix Lebrun pushes, he uses it as a weapon and gets really good spin out of it.

 

[Infernal]

I really love the short push. I think it is quite underrated at the amateur level.

It is not underrated, it is just a hard shot with no payoff.
Below USA 2000 rating there is no need for this shot:

To push short you need to first get a short ball, and it does not happen often.
Then you need to step in, lean in, push carefully with your body off the bounce (which is very hard to do. So easy to miss if you are rushing in to push off the bounce, you have very little time to react and do it correctly).

Then OK, suppose you executed your short push correctly. What's your payoff? There is none. You just gave your opponent an easy ball to push back. And, btw, you need to step back from the table or the returning push will jam you.

And if you screwed up and pushed it long, then you just gave an easy ball to loop.


At the amateur level pushing long into elbow/BH/wide is way more efficient than trying to push short. Pushing short just does not achieve anything.

 

[Angerer]

Ma Long, Truls, and Felix are the obvious choices.

I would also add Dang Qui, Patrick Franziska, and Kristian Karlsson. I think their short game is a bit underrated.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Most club Ojisan / Obasan are top of the line pushers.

 

[doppelmoral]

It is not underrated, it is just a hard shot with no payoff.
Below USA 2000 rating there is no need for this shot:

To push short you need to first get a short ball, and it does not happen often.
Then you need to step in, lean in, push carefully with your body off the bounce (which is very hard to do. So easy to miss if you are rushing in to push off the bounce, you have very little time to react and do it correctly).

Then OK, suppose you executed your short push correctly. What's your payoff? There is none. You just gave your opponent an easy ball to push back. And, btw, you need to step back from the table or the returning push will jam you.

And if you screwed up and pushed it long, then you just gave an easy ball to loop.


At the amateur level pushing long into elbow/BH/wide is way more efficient than trying to push short. Pushing short just does not achieve anything.

I agree that long push is way better then short push on amateur level.

but you make it sound like short push is horrible. for us the short push is hard to execute but for them its an easy ball to push back?

if the short push is well executed and you rob the ball its momentum, many players will also be late, stretch their arm and either dump it into the net or pop it up.

but yea much better to play long aggressive push with good placement, no question about that

 

[NextLevel]

It is not underrated, it is just a hard shot with no payoff.
Below USA 2000 rating there is no need for this shot:

To push short you need to first get a short ball, and it does not happen often.
Then you need to step in, lean in, push carefully with your body off the bounce (which is very hard to do. So easy to miss if you are rushing in to push off the bounce, you have very little time to react and do it correctly).

Then OK, suppose you executed your short push correctly. What's your payoff? There is none. You just gave your opponent an easy ball to push back. And, btw, you need to step back from the table or the returning push will jam you.

And if you screwed up and pushed it long, then you just gave an easy ball to loop.


At the amateur level pushing long into elbow/BH/wide is way more efficient than trying to push short. Pushing short just does not achieve anything.

Lots of good wisdom in here, but the conclusion is overstated.

A good fast long push is a strong weapon for sure, but executing a good long fast push is also at least as difficult as a decent short push. And a short push doesn't have to be truly short to be effective, it just doesn't have to be easy for the opponent to open against, sometimes, pushing off the sidelines or making the opponent move as long as you don't pop up the ball is a good thing.

But I agree with the main point, most people don't serve or push short at the lower levels, therefore the most bang for the buck is really in learning to read and attack loose balls, not so much in trying to push short.

On the main question, Ma Long, Harimoto, Liang Jingkun are where I would start.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

It is not underrated, it is just a hard shot with no payoff.
Below USA 2000 rating there is no need for this shot:

To push short you need to first get a short ball, and it does not happen often.
Then you need to step in, lean in, push carefully with your body off the bounce (which is very hard to do. So easy to miss if you are rushing in to push off the bounce, you have very little time to react and do it correctly).

Then OK, suppose you executed your short push correctly. What's your payoff? There is none. You just gave your opponent an easy ball to push back. And, btw, you need to step back from the table or the returning push will jam you.

And if you screwed up and pushed it long, then you just gave an easy ball to loop.


At the amateur level pushing long into elbow/BH/wide is way more efficient than trying to push short. Pushing short just does not achieve anything.

You need footwork for most shots in table tennis so not sure why that is weighed against pushing short here.

The payoff is exactly that - perhaps getting a long push back or if they leave it short again you have time to flip, push aggressively a second time and take the initiative in the point.

 

[SFF_lib]

Across different eras I would say Ma Lin, tightly followed by Ma Long.

 

[blahness]

Lol with BH anti you can drop short even half long or longer balls and it drives ppl mad xD

 

[Infernal]

but you make it sound like short push is horrible. for us the short push is hard to execute but for them its an easy ball to push back?

Yes, it is an easy ball to push back. If you opponent is not stupid, you will get a fast long push into the body or wide out of reach, and you are still super close to the table b/c you are an amateur, and your footwork sucks. Looping fast pushes is not exactly a walk in the park even when you are 1m away from the table, and it is a total nightmare when you just pushed short and are still hunched over the table/jammed/super close to the table.

Also, just b/c the ball is short you are at a disadvantage: your opponent has a selection of angles, and you have no idea where they are going to return the ball. It could be long, could be short, wide, bh, fh, elbow, anywhere, could be a flip, you have no idea.

 

[Infernal]

One thing I noticed is that some pros do not bother with short pushes.
T. Harimoto, for example, almost always pushes long to get into a rally right away.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

If you opponent is not stupid, you will get a fast long push into the body or wide out of reach, and you are still super close to the table b/c you are an amateur, and your footwork sucks. Looping fast pushes is not exactly a walk in the park even when you are 1m away from the table, and it is a total nightmare when you just pushed short and are still hunched over the table/jammed/super close to the table.

Also, just b/c the ball is short you are at a disadvantage: your opponent has a selection of angles, and you have no idea where they are going to return the ball. It could be long, could be short, wide, bh, fh, elbow, anywhere, could be a flip, you have no idea.

Nah an amateur opponent won't be able to do a long and fast push if you are able to do a well controlled and most importantly, low, short push.

You seem to assume the hypothetical player is an amateur that can't move or loop a long push effectively while assuming their hypothetical opponent is well versed in these things. Not really a fair comparison in that case.

 

[Dominikk85]

It is not underrated, it is just a hard shot with no payoff.
Below USA 2000 rating there is no need for this shot:

To push short you need to first get a short ball, and it does not happen often.
Then you need to step in, lean in, push carefully with your body off the bounce (which is very hard to do. So easy to miss if you are rushing in to push off the bounce, you have very little time to react and do it correctly).

Then OK, suppose you executed your short push correctly. What's your payoff? There is none. You just gave your opponent an easy ball to push back. And, btw, you need to step back from the table or the returning push will jam you.

And if you screwed up and pushed it long, then you just gave an easy ball to loop.


At the amateur level pushing long into elbow/BH/wide is way more efficient than trying to push short. Pushing short just does not achieve anything.

I agree. Short push is risky because if it is either too long or short enough but too high it is easy prey for the opponent.

Against lower level opponents who either can't serve short consistently or who are not able to consistently loop long pushes a long push into the weaker wing is probably the safer option. try to push long into his FH and if it works continue with it and if it doesn't try pushing long into the BH.

Only if both doesn't work and he is attacking long pushes with both wings you need to think about pushing short.

Trying to push short against an opponent who can't loop a long push on one or both of his wings is kinda galaxy braining it.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

I agree. Short push is risky because if it is either too long or short enough but too high it is easy prey for the opponent.

Against lower level opponents who either can't serve short consistently or who are not able to consistently loop long pushes a long push into the weaker wing is probably the safer option. try to push long into his FH and if it works continue with it and if it doesn't try pushing long into the BH.

Only if both doesn't work and he is attacking long pushes with both wings you need to think about pushing short.

Trying to push short against an opponent who can't loop a long push on one or both of his wings is kinda galaxy braining it.

So it is risky because if you do it wrong then it is easy for the opponent to attack? I guess then that a forehand loop is a risky shot because if it's too high then it is easy prey for the opponent...

 

[doppelmoral]

So it is risky because if you do it wrong then it is easy for the opponent to attack? I guess then that a forehand loop is a risky shot because if it's too high then it is easy prey for the opponent...

dont bother

in his mind we are amateurs who perform every shot in the worst possible way while the opponent is at least a semi-pro. in that scenario whatever shot you select its gonna get killed easily immediately

I totally agree that long push generally is better than short push on amateur level. But where I play (1500TTR), amateurs are much better at looping than at doing long pushes because that is what they practise. the long pushes most people do here are floaty and have low backspin, so the loop is not hard to execute even with bad mechanics

so just make a shot selection based on your opponents strengths and weaknesses. to say that a short push is always bad is ridiculous. I will say though that a well executed long push will give most amateurs way more trouble than a well executed short push

 

[ThePongCommenter]

dont bother

in his mind we are amateurs who perform every shot in the worst possible way while the opponent is at least a semi-pro. in that scenario whatever shot you select its gonna get killed easily immediately

I totally agree that long push generally is better than short push on amateur level. But where I play (1500TTR), amateurs are much better at looping than at doing long pushes because that is what they practise. the long pushes most people do here are floaty and have low backspin, so the loop is not hard to execute even with bad mechanics

so just make a shot selection based on your opponents strengths and weaknesses. to say that a short push is always bad is ridiculous. I will say though that a well executed long push will give most amateurs way more trouble than a well executed short push

Yeah, if you are playing at a level where you can repeatedly abuse an opponent with long pushes then you just aren't playing a high level even for an amateur at all. And it is a good point that so many players only practice against long pushes anyways so they are probably more familiar with how to receive that.

It is great if long push abuse works for you at your level of play but saying a shot is bad just because you can't do it well is silly. Same for saying that a shot is bad because if you execute that shot poorly then your opponent can attack - that goes for everything.