Why are dignics09C considered not suitable for beginners/intermediate players ?

[MaBede]

Hello,

I've heard/read many people recommend tacky rubbers like NH3 to new players. I think it makes sense, tacky rubbers are slower and very hard so even though they're slow and controllable, they can have many gears and play fast with a proper technique.
But then, wouldn't dignics09C be a very good option as well for developing players? They aren't too fast and have the same properties as tacky rubbers.

I would consider myself a slightly advanced player (i have 1500 points in the french league, I found somewhere that it's like 2000usatt but i don't know if it's accurate), I'm playing with T05 on the forehand and I was wondering if playing with dignics09C could help me perfecting my forehand technique, whilst being better for short game and serves.
T05 is probably better for me at the moment because of how easy it is to spin the ball even out of position, but if I play with D09c for a few months and force myself to use full forehand strokes, I guess it'd make me improve?

Am I missing something? Is it really that difficult to get qualities from this rubber if you're not a semi pro / pro player ?

(Before someone asks me, I don't wanna play with hurricane because i don't like boosting)

 

[pedro.dantas]

Not everyone recommends NH3 to new players.
IMO, is hard to develop strokes when you need to put a lot of effort, most of strokes in table tennis need great timing and contact, by using hard rubbers you making it even worse for yourself. But i understand you want some rubber that gives you a bit more feedback in the quality of your strokes, if i were you, i would choose an hybrid rubber harder than tenergy, but not as hard as dignics 09c, maybe Rakza Z could be great for you, or you could even try the H3N, i think it makes more sense than buying a expensive rubber that you problably won't be able to engage the sponge properly.

 

[joshmak10]

The typical answer is that the sponge is really hard and so to get power and the most out of 09c, one must hit hard and with good technique, which many beginners can’t do. The rubber is really unforgiving for bad technique. The arc is also pretty high compared to other rubbers which could be challenging to get used to for beginners. So normally, it is recommend that beginners use something much softer because it is easier to use and more forgiving, and spin and speed is easier to access.

However, I found that by using harder rubbers like H3N on my FH and 09c on my BH (now I use 8-80), although I lost plenty of matches in the beginning, it forced me to have good technique and it saved me the hassle of having to change the type of rubber I use for the future. I also think that having a soft rubbers, while it helps to get speed, it forgives lazy technique which I really don’t like and I also think soft rubbers are harder to use in the short game. All of this is subjective, but that’s my opinion

 

[latej]

I've heard/read many people recommend tacky rubbers like NH3 to new players. I think it makes sense, tacky rubbers are slower and very hard so even though they're slow and controllable, they can have many gears and play fast with a proper technique.

I'd not recommend NH3 to new players, there are situations where I'd recommend H3-like rubber, but not to a new player.

But then, wouldn't dignics09C be a very good option as well for developing players? They aren't too fast and have the same properties as tacky rubbers.

Yes, D09C is not very fast in strokes where you don't invest much power, and that is actually a good thing for developing player. The sponge is good, but I'd have to spend a lot of words in explaining why I think so. The problem for me (and disclaimer - that is a personal opinion), is the top-sheet. Imho, it is a profi top-sheet, you need to engage it properly to get what it is capable and also meant to do. I must say, that I do prefer slightly lighter/easier to access top-sheet.

I would consider myself a slightly advanced player (i have 1500 points in the french league, I found somewhere that it's like 2000usatt but i don't know if it's accurate), I'm playing with T05 on the forehand and I was wondering if playing with dignics09C could help me perfecting my forehand technique, whilst being better for short game and serves.

Given your BTFLY affinity, I'd suggest Glayzer G09C on FH and Glayzer (regular) on BH. If you like Tenergy line, it's fine, keep it, but for me, while being capable of spin production (all T05, T80, T64 with their differences), they are all also simply more spin-eating. Hence the Glayzers... OK, yes, you may object that officially D09C and G09C have the same top-sheet supposedly (like D05 and Glayzer are supposed to have), but for me both Glayzers are simply more accessible. And if you take both, you can compare them...

T05 is probably better for me at the moment because of how easy it is to spin the ball even out of position, but if I play with D09c for a few months and force myself to use full forehand strokes, I guess it'd make me improve?

Am I missing something? Is it really that difficult to get qualities from this rubber if you're not a semi pro / pro player ?

At the same time, I know prominent TTD people who are capable of using D09C even on the BH, so take all this that I say here with a grain of salt - and as individual strong but personal opinion ;-) Cheers!

(Before someone asks me, I don't wanna play with hurricane because i don't like boosting)

Anyway again, if you really want to go D09C, do it, but my pers. opinion is that G09C would be a better start.

 

[NakiMaki]

Hello,

I've heard/read many people recommend tacky rubbers like NH3 to new players. I think it makes sense, tacky rubbers are slower and very hard so even though they're slow and controllable, they can have many gears and play fast with a proper technique.
But then, wouldn't dignics09C be a very good option as well for developing players? They aren't too fast and have the same properties as tacky rubbers.

I would consider myself a slightly advanced player (i have 1500 points in the french league, I found somewhere that it's like 2000usatt but i don't know if it's accurate), I'm playing with T05 on the forehand and I was wondering if playing with dignics09C could help me perfecting my forehand technique, whilst being better for short game and serves.
T05 is probably better for me at the moment because of how easy it is to spin the ball even out of position, but if I play with D09c for a few months and force myself to use full forehand strokes, I guess it'd make me improve?

Am I missing something? Is it really that difficult to get qualities from this rubber if you're not a semi pro / pro player ?

(Before someone asks me, I don't wanna play with hurricane because i don't like boosting)

I have been down to hard rubbers rabbithole, started pretty early with tenergy (way too fast for beginners, a bit too fast for intermediate). The reason rubbers like Tenergy is used is often because of an ego thing "I'm not a beginner so i should use something **Better**", i would recommend Rozena up until 1700 rating TTR. Though i am also a victim of playing too hard or too fast rubbers too early, i used Tenergy then transitioned into Dignics09C, and i would not recommend that to anyone that has played for <3years or around 1750-2000TTR.

H3 is sometimes recommended to beginners since it takes the "correct" technique to activate the sponge eg. just hit with enough impact and with the right motion. So they don't develop the "weird" european homemade loops you often see at clubs when people dont have a coach and just do whatever lands on the table.

Though it takes some years *usually* to develop a decent enough technique and playing for that long with a H3 might cause some confidence issues and will not be as fun. That's why its mostly the chinese coaches that will recommend H3 since they often focus a lot on technique.

 

[NextLevel]

Hello,

I've heard/read many people recommend tacky rubbers like NH3 to new players. I think it makes sense, tacky rubbers are slower and very hard so even though they're slow and controllable, they can have many gears and play fast with a proper technique.
But then, wouldn't dignics09C be a very good option as well for developing players? They aren't too fast and have the same properties as tacky rubbers.

I would consider myself a slightly advanced player (i have 1500 points in the french league, I found somewhere that it's like 2000usatt but i don't know if it's accurate), I'm playing with T05 on the forehand and I was wondering if playing with dignics09C could help me perfecting my forehand technique, whilst being better for short game and serves.
T05 is probably better for me at the moment because of how easy it is to spin the ball even out of position, but if I play with D09c for a few months and force myself to use full forehand strokes, I guess it'd make me improve?

Am I missing something? Is it really that difficult to get qualities from this rubber if you're not a semi pro / pro player ?

(Before someone asks me, I don't wanna play with hurricane because i don't like boosting)

Timo Boll was pf the opinion D09c was suitable for beginners. You can find him saying this online in his video review on his YouTube channel. Whether this was Butterfly promotion or Timo'a technical review is open to cynical speculation but if we take Timo'a integrity, he clearly was okay with a beginner using it to learn given the dwell and the control.

The problem with D09c is the effort it takes to get the ball moving and since as you get better, speed is at a premium in table tennis (arguably as much if not more than short control), some players do not like this trade off. For example Togami and Harimoto do not use 09c. But if one wants to give someone a good feeling for spin, while Glayzer 09c is cheaper, many people who like Tenergy 05 have gone to D09c as one option. My main point though is that Timo was someone who had something close to your view when 09c came out.

Edit: Oh, and price as well. I forgot price.

 

[longle]

somehow D09c is suitable for beginners due to its spin generation friendliness. but it's hard to control so not ideally to develop techniques.

 

[Tyce]

I'm a lower level intermediate player and recently had the opportunity to play two different bats with D09c.
I feel that in some aspects, it's a very forgiving rubber. One, it's not very bouncy. Two, generating spin with a brush contact is really easy.
Can I get the most out of it? Absolutely not. But for the elements required in my level of game, controlled spin and touch, it's perfect.

 

[SorryForTheEdge]

What's a beginner and intermediate? In my view, a beginner is someone who never had a coach and just plays it as a hobby with some cheap racket from local store. Intermediate is someone who went to a coach or learned themselves the mechanics of the same - loops, strokes, pushes, serves etc and got a starter custom racket that's allround and not aimed towards a niche. Advanced is someone who has grew out of their starter custom racket and wants to try different styles from defensive to offensive+ and wants to experiment with different rubbers/blades. I think this is where dignics 09c can be considered. BUT. Given how it's expensive, I would recommend the player to try cheaper hybrids first to see if they like this type of rubber. Or, better, find someone who plays with D09c to let them give you a try (ideally they would use same or similar style of blade as you, so you can better estimate how it would work with your setup). There's also thickness of the rubber to take into consideration. I tried a boosted D09c MAX on an OFF+ blade and AR+ blade. For me it felt easier on the OFF+ blade, but that's because the OFF+ blade had more direct trajectory. I also tried unboosted D09c (not sure which thickness) on Timo Boll ALC, but it felt many times slower than the boosted one I tried. It had perfect control, but the speed was slow and it felt like trying to giddy up a lazy horse.

 

[NetProphet]

I reckon it's too hard for beginners. And hard rubbers make it difficult to generate spin.
It's easier for a beginner to learn the touch game with a more bouncy rubber than it is to generate the needed swing speed with good technique required for proper attacking loops with something as hard as 09c.
I think Glayzer 09c would be a better option for beginners every time.
D09c is for advanced attacking players imo.

 

[NetProphet]

I'm a lower level intermediate player and recently had the opportunity to play two different bats with D09c.
I feel that in some aspects, it's a very forgiving rubber. One, it's not very bouncy. Two, generating spin with a brush contact is really easy.
Can I get the most out of it? Absolutely not. But for the elements required in my level of game, controlled spin and touch, it's perfect.

Until you have to loop with it.
If you think 09c is perfect for 'controlled' spin then (sorry to say this) but it sounds to me like you may have given up and are happy to mess about and stay at your current level of play.
For any beginner who's aim is continuous improvement I cannot see how it helps at all, let alone how it can be perfect for anything...

 

[NakiMaki]

Until you have to loop with it.
If you think 09c is perfect for 'controlled' spin then (sorry to say this) but it sounds to me like you may have given up and are happy to mess about and stay at your current level of play.
For any beginner who's aim is continuous improvement I cannot see how it helps at all, let alone how it can be perfect for anything...

^^
Also correct, i played D09C as a beginner absolutely terrible for developing technique. I would recommend Rozena or Glayzer or similar rubbers up until 1750TTR, or atleast advanced players.

 

[merlin el mago]

Compared D09C vs H3 boosted, the BTY rubber have a weird feeling at contact ball compared vs the nice feeling of boosted H3, the big problem of H3 is the bad control quality so you never know if the rubber you buy is good or bad until you receive & try and also the hassle to boost not a lot or insufficient so too much variants that you avoid using D09C.

I don't recommend Rozena for begginers, for begginers I recommend an all wood 5 plies blades all round with two grippy not fast rubbers to develop technique and got the feeling of brush the ball.

 

[NDH]

I would consider myself a slightly advanced player (i have 1500 points in the french league, I found somewhere that it's like 2000usatt but i don't know if it's accurate)

The thread mentions beginners and intermediate players, but your potential ranking would put you in the more advanced class…. So I’m not sure if you are asking for yourself, or for actual beginners?

For you, absolutely try it. If you can actually loop, and have semi OK movement, you’ll be fine with D09c - In fact, I think the positives of 09c outweigh the negatives, and it’s certainly preferable to T05 which is amazing in the attacking game, but lacking everywhere else.

For a beginner, the argument is that it’s hard and slow, just like a cheap Chinese rubber which MANY people start with.

Would I recommend a beginner it? Sure. If they had tons of money.

But the reality is, it’s VERY expensive compared to a cheap Chinese rubber, and there really isn’t much difference for a beginner.

The positives to a hard tacky-ish rubber for a beginner is that that can swing hard and fast without worrying about the ball going out.

If they used a softer bouncier rubber, they’d miss a huge amount because it’s too easy to gain power.

 

[Tyce]

Until you have to loop with it.
If you think 09c is perfect for 'controlled' spin then (sorry to say this) but it sounds to me like you may have given up and are happy to mess about and stay at your current level of play.
For any beginner who's aim is continuous improvement I cannot see how it helps at all, let alone how it can be perfect for anything...

This is where text makes things too hard to explain I guess.
Slow loops, hooks, and big swings I felt were just much easier to get on the table with a good amount of spin. And this is both on an Allround wood blade and a Super Vis (where I could compare it to D05)

D05 has a much higher level of bounce on low impact contact, even if it's much easier to control than T05 in those same strokes.
D09c doesn't have that, it's even more controlled in short game than G1 but as you go up in power it's more linear, that's what makes it feel controlled to me. Basically, even when I swing too big or go a bit overboard, the ball still lands.
When I do the same thing with G1, or D05 for that matter, it's really easy to overplay.

 

[TampaBayTableTennis]

D09C is a particular rubber, for particular people (try it)

 

[NetProphet]

This is where text makes things too hard to explain I guess.
Slow loops, hooks, and big swings I felt were just much easier to get on the table with a good amount of spin. And this is both on an Allround wood blade and a Super Vis (where I could compare it to D05)

D05 has a much higher level of bounce on low impact contact, even if it's much easier to control than T05 in those same strokes.
D09c doesn't have that, it's even more controlled in short game than G1 but as you go up in power it's more linear, that's what makes it feel controlled to me. Basically, even when I swing too big or go a bit overboard, the ball still lands.
When I do the same thing with G1, or D05 for that matter, it's really easy to overplay.

I find D09c very unforgiving and FH shots relatively lacking in spin if I play anything that resembles a passive shot.
Slow loops I get but I don't know what you mean when you say hooks or big swings.
My experience of 09c when swinging quickly is that it's plenty likely to go long when not used with proper technique, it's just less spin sensitive than T05.
It seems to me what you are describing is playing a hard rubber without really trying to engage the sponge at all.
I don't know your level or how much spin you're actually getting on the ball but I have to assume it is less than you would with a softer rubber because that's just how D09c is, especially with a relatively slow all wood blade.
Or putting it another way.
Not being able to control T05 I get.
But not being able to control G1 on an allwood blade, I do not get.
It seems to me that you've fixed this lack of control not through training or by fixing technique, but by investing €80 in a rubber so hard that it plays slow for you.
All of this is fine, I'm not judging your game or looking down.
I only say all this because, linking to the original question, I don't think that is a good pathway for beginners.

 

[merlin el mago]

I agree, to get the maximum from D09C is better to use a fiber blade.

 

[MaBede]

Thank you all for your interesting answers. I managed to buy a sheet of 4-months-old dignics 09C and dignics05 for 40€ total on vinted (that's quite lucky I think), i'll try them both and see how it goes ahah.

The thread mentions beginners and intermediate players, but your potential ranking would put you in the more advanced class…. So I’m not sure if you are asking for yourself, or for actual beginners?

Both. I was first asking for myself because I became interested into those harder tacky rubbers, but when I asked myself if I was good enough to play with D09C, I couldn't really find any reason even a beginner shouldn't use D09C (except for the ridiculous price).
For Tenergy05, I understand because it's way too fast, has no control, too bouncy and allows poor technique. But for D09C, I guess maybe it's fine if you have a coach, even if it's not optimal.

I heard your recommandations about G09C, Rakza Z or other hybrid rubbers.
Although i've never tried them, coming from T05, I don't see myself using rubbers that slow, and I don't wanna boost. In addition, I'm not even sure I'd produce more spin overall with G09C than with T05, so I don't see any benefit from using this rubber.

Thanks anyways.

 

[NakiMaki]

Thank you all for your interesting answers. I managed to buy a sheet of 4-months-old dignics 09C and dignics05 for 40€ total on vinted (that's quite lucky I think), i'll try them both and see how it goes ahah.


Both. I was first asking for myself because I became interested into those harder tacky rubbers, but when I asked myself if I was good enough to play with D09C, I couldn't really find any reason even a beginner shouldn't use D09C (except for the ridiculous price).
For Tenergy05, I understand because it's way too fast, has no control, too bouncy and allows poor technique. But for D09C, I guess maybe it's fine if you have a coach, even if it's not optimal.

I heard your recommandations about G09C, Rakza Z or other hybrid rubbers.
Although i've never tried them, coming from T05, I don't see myself using rubbers that slow, and I don't wanna boost. In addition, I'm not even sure I'd produce more spin overall with G09C than with T05, so I don't see any benefit from using this rubber.

Thanks anyways.

40€ For a 4month old D09C is a robbery. Used rubbers quality is so much worse. It's basically dead after 4 month imo. Not recommended for beginners because its too hard. A common misconception of a controlled rubber is being slow, they aren't equivalent. D09C has many gears, it isn't as bouncy as T05, that doesnt mean that it is forgiving. It is still a very unforgiving rubber if your technique isn't that good. Many players don't want to say to themselves "my technique actually isn't that good" so they buy rubbers like this, and protect their ego . For example H3 unboosted is a slow rubber, but also unforgiving. Rozena is a soft rubber with forgiveness.