Why do Butterfly now claim that Tenergy 05 is spinnier than 05fx?

[MOG]

ten years ago if you went on butterfly selling websites - the numbers they gave you for spin were higher with 05fx than 05.

05 had more speed than 05fx but less control

now if you go on the butterfly website 05 is significantly spinnier in the numbers than 05fx.

How can these 2 things be correct?

Have they made 05fx worse to encourage people not to use it?

In my experience 05fx is a very spinny rubber for a non tacky rubber

 

[NextLevel]

ten years ago if you went on butterfly selling websites - the numbers they gave you for spin were higher with 05fx than 05.

05 had more speed than 05fx but less control

now if you go on the butterfly website 05 is significantly spinnier in the numbers than 05fx.

How can these 2 things be correct?

Have they made 05fx worse to encourage people not to use it?

In my experience 05fx is a very spinny rubber for a non tacky rubber

The focus (and ball reaction) with the new plastic ball is different.

 

[Matteones]

Softer is easier to produce spin and more forgiving. Harder has a higher spin ceiling, which means the maximum spin you can produce with harder sponge is higher, but you need a much faster arm-speed than with the softer rubber to produce this ceiling.

 

[Tyce]

According to Butterfly, they revised the numbers in 2023 due to improved measurement methods.

 

[kapahoo]

It is just marketing

 

[MOG]

If you have to swing hard to get the maximum spin, that means there are less chances for deception and variation surely.
Even if I have a powerful heavy spin/speed fh if its always the same shot better players adjust, then its just about who is the better player.
I still use 05fx, although with the modern balls its very rare that people block a heavy topspin long or high.
Whenever I try 05 it just don't seem as spinny. Maybe i just have bad technique!

 

[NextLevel]

If you have to swing hard to get the maximum spin, that means there are less chances for deception and variation surely.
Even if I have a powerful heavy spin/speed fh if its always the same shot better players adjust, then its just about who is the better player.
I still use 05fx, although with the modern balls its very rare that people block a heavy topspin long or high.
Whenever I try 05 it just don't seem as spinny. Maybe i just have bad technique!

Spinsight now exists for a more objective perspective on this. When you say spinny, do you mean absolute revs per second or do you mean the ration of revs per second to linear speed? And of course there is also the question if in what zone of speed and spin do you generally play in. I find that the more you try to reloop the ball early with power, the more you like harder sponge and the more you try to play flat early with power, the more you like softer sponge.

 

[MOG]

Spinsight now exists for a more objective perspective on this. When you say spinny, do you mean absolute revs per second or do you mean the ration of revs per second to linear speed? And of course there is also the question if in what zone of speed and spin do you generally play in. I find that the more you try to reloop the ball early with power, the more you like harder sponge and the more you try to play flat early with power, the more you like softer sponge.

that's very interesting "try to reloop the ball early with power, the more you like harder sponge and the more you try to play flat early with power, the more you like softer sponge.". i much rather do the first one, but find i just end up playing fast with hard sponge if i try to do that, somehow i lose the spin and hit fast which i think everyone deals with better now. i find top spin with more of a parabola definitely works better, even against better opponents particularly to start the attacks. some how i feel opponent has to time there shot better then

 

[Matteones]

If you have to swing hard to get the maximum spin, that means there are less chances for deception and variation surely.
Even if I have a powerful heavy spin/speed fh if its always the same shot better players adjust, then its just about who is the better player.
I still use 05fx, although with the modern balls its very rare that people block a heavy topspin long or high.
Whenever I try 05 it just don't seem as spinny. Maybe i just have bad technique!

Since the change of the ball to plastic the trend has been for sponges to get harder and harder. The reason is that, when you have a good and stable technique and decent arm-speed, these give you undoubtedly better spin - which also means better stability in your shots and a higher percentage of your strong and fast shots will land on the table.

Whilst Tenergy 05 hardness was considered normal 10 years ago with the old ball, now it's considered medium and players who want to retain a certain spin level must go harder. But certain players, even at a high level, still use it.

Tenergy 05x was already soft 10 years ago, now it's mushy at best, I know literally no one from the advanced level up that uses it because it bottoms out immediately and provides little spin and quality, when we are speaking of advanced players and up.
If you can't get more spin out of 05 than 05fx, yes your technique is the issue. 05FX will now bottom out with a half decent forehand top-spin.
Please notice that if you like it more there is no reason to change it.

 

[Matteones]

that's very interesting "try to reloop the ball early with power, the more you like harder sponge and the more you try to play flat early with power, the more you like softer sponge.". i much rather do the first one, but find i just end up playing fast with hard sponge if i try to do that, somehow i lose the spin and hit fast which i think everyone deals with better now. i find top spin with more of a parabola definitely works better, even against better opponents particularly to start the attacks. some how i feel opponent has to time there shot better then

I think your level is important in the discussion now and you are getting confused.

The game has become more and more physical precisely because spin has become relatively easier to deal with compared with the old celluloid 40 ball, and again another level easier than the 38 ball.
But we are speaking of the top 1 percent level, what you are talking about still works, and it especially works well at levels lower than advanced.

 

[NextLevel]

that's very interesting "try to reloop the ball early with power, the more you like harder sponge and the more you try to play flat early with power, the more you like softer sponge.". i much rather do the first one, but find i just end up playing fast with hard sponge if i try to do that, somehow i lose the spin and hit fast which i think everyone deals with better now. i find top spin with more of a parabola definitely works better, even against better opponents particularly to start the attacks. some how i feel opponent has to time there shot better then

As @Matteones says, playing level is very important in this calculation as it defines your swing speed range and the range of spin you typically face. Relative to my level, I have used harder sponges because I tend to crash into the ball with a desire to topspin all the time, even on drives. When you use softer rubber, you have a brush speed limit where swinging too hard into the ball sends the.ball too deep into the wood because the spong cannot absorb the impact. With thicker sponge on a reasonable blade, my ability to control the ball goes way up because I can swing confidently at everything, softer sponges feel like i have a speed limit. Two players can look like they are doing similar things when you don't see the spin in the game.

 

[dingyibvs]

It's probably related to the ball change. If you hit a baseball with a racket, just about any rubber will bottom out pretty easily. Heavier ball has more inertia, allowing you to hit into the rubber more before the ball bounces out. While the BTY ratings is just marketing, I think they do want to convey that for most people the T05FX is probably too soft to generate as much spin as the T05 these days.