why wait to dry the glue?

[Dominikk85]

I don't know exactly why it doesn't work but I assume that the water can't evaporate when you put the sheet on it wet so it never really hard and sticks.

 

[Lazer]

The OP, if he has the information can decide if the protection of the edge of his blade is more important, or if the unmuted feeling of the blade without the tape is more important. As long as he knows, the tape does mute the vibrations rather than having someone tell him it is just in his head when it actually is not. And, Lazar, I know it was not you who said it was just in his head.

I'll keep my opinion on that one to myself

Cheers
L-zr

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I'll keep my opinion on that one to myself

Cheers
L-zr

I guess, an added note: the amount the tape would mute the vibrations of the blade, and therefore the feeling, it may be a very small amount. One person may not notice any difference. And another person my notice it. So, it still comes down to personal choice.

If you take a tuning fork and put it on a hollow wooden block, the block will resonate and make the sound of the tuning fork notably louder and add a variety of tones to the pure note. If the block was solid, it would still resonate with the tuning fork but nowhere near as much as the hollow block. If you put either block on a foam rubber surface, that would dampen the vibrations of the block to some extent. If you put the kind of cloth tape that edge tape is made of on the side of the block, it would also dampen the vibrations of either block to some extent. The more material you put on the block, the more it would dampen the resonance of the block.

An acoustic guitar with a hollow body has more resonance played acoustically than an electric guitar with a solid body. If you put cloth gaffer's tape (which is pretty similar to the material of edge tape) on the wood of the acoustic guitar, it would change the sound. The more tape you put, the more you would dampen the resonance of the wood.

With a blade and edge tape, we are talking about the same issue to a much smaller extent. So, it really might not matter to one person. And another person may like the feel without the tape better.

Either choice is fine in the end.

 

[_ak]

Some people cover only likely impacted areas with edge tape, looks like a good compromise to me.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

water based glue damaged blades compared to glue before WBG
it is common to change blades a lot more often due to this

pros add edge tape to cover lifting of rubbers
you hardly see pros cover the entire blade because it adds unnecessary weight. So many will just put "bare min" if they feel they need to

 

[dingyibvs]

after reading this , and watching the tutorial , I have "short-cut" my experiment by 3 hours. So my test was only 21 hours.
I simply added DHS 15 liberally to a piece of rubber and put a second piece on top , placed the lot between 2 pieces of plate glass and placed a rock on top.
Result : the glue has fully dried.
the bond is rubbish and maybe only 40% as strong as when
done the normal way

Doing it this way, whether it's rubber on rubber or on wood, means that you'd squeeze the vast majority of the glue out from between the two surfaces. The bond will for sure not be as good as having two nice thick layers of glue stuck together.

I use this to spread glue:

Just found this amazing item on AliExpress. Check it out!
$1.91 | Malathorne 30 Pcs Cylinder-shaped Sponge Brush for Water-Base Table Tennis Glue+Random Color Clip Racket DIY Tools Accessories

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mqls6Zg

It's very cheap and comes with a clip for holding it. I've tried brush but it's kinda expensive and wasteful for a one time use item. I've tried make-up sponges but they come stuck with each other and when you un-stuck them there's always some residual sponge sticking out which causes streaks. They're also extremely dense, which is an issue I'll get to.

These little yellow sponges I got are rather porous, which does mean that you'll need a bit more glue, but I think that's compensated for by how cheap they are. The porosity is very helpful as it can absorb extra glue. With the dense sponges I always wiped glue past the edge of the rubber, making a mess, but that's not an issue with this sponge as it only releases a thin layer with each wipe. Once you've covered it all you can apply slightly higher pressure to release some of the glue absorbed by the sponge. Less will be re-absorbed as they dry on the rubber. I use one sponge per rubber, applying 2-3 layers plus 1 on the blade.

I also pour my glue into a smaller jar with an opening big enough to fit the sponge horizontally, so each time I need more glue I just dip it in the jar. The jar has good sealing, and it's overall less messy than pouring glue out of the bottle. At the end I squeeze the extra glue in the sponge back into the bottle. I don't do that to the jar so the jar remains very neat.

 

[Cadoia]

I let it dry but not to the point when glue becomes completely transparent. Never had any problems and without applying excessively thick layers and more than 2 layers. This question is overhyped imho.

I use paint brush for rubber glue, it's drying much faster than WBG.

what is rubber glue vs. WBG?

 

[Cadoia]

Doing it this way, whether it's rubber on rubber or on wood, means that you'd squeeze the vast majority of the glue out from between the two surfaces. The bond will for sure not be as good as having two nice thick layers of glue stuck together.

I use this to spread glue:

Just found this amazing item on AliExpress. Check it out!
$1.91 | Malathorne 30 Pcs Cylinder-shaped Sponge Brush for Water-Base Table Tennis Glue+Random Color Clip Racket DIY Tools Accessories

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mqls6Zg

It's very cheap and comes with a clip for holding it. I've tried brush but it's kinda expensive and wasteful for a one time use item. I've tried make-up sponges but they come stuck with each other and when you un-stuck them there's always some residual sponge sticking out which causes streaks. They're also extremely dense, which is an issue I'll get to.

These little yellow sponges I got are rather porous, which does mean that you'll need a bit more glue, but I think that's compensated for by how cheap they are. The porosity is very helpful as it can absorb extra glue. With the dense sponges I always wiped glue past the edge of the rubber, making a mess, but that's not an issue with this sponge as it only releases a thin layer with each wipe. Once you've covered it all you can apply slightly higher pressure to release some of the glue absorbed by the sponge. Less will be re-absorbed as they dry on the rubber. I use one sponge per rubber, applying 2-3 layers plus 1 on the blade.

I also pour my glue into a smaller jar with an opening big enough to fit the sponge horizontally, so each time I need more glue I just dip it in the jar. The jar has good sealing, and it's overall less messy than pouring glue out of the bottle. At the end I squeeze the extra glue in the sponge back into the bottle. I don't do that to the jar so the jar remains very neat.

doesnt the air in the jar dry the glue? I am imagining a glass jar with metal screw lid on top. you buy these in supermarkets with food inside etc.
I like the idea of the jar. if its what I think it is and it works.
just ordered those above sponges. thank you.

 

[Cadoia]

True, partially. It's short yet much longer than it would require if you do a dry assembly.

When you expose glue to air, water gets extracted from the glue because environment is "less" dry than the glue. The larger the exposed surface is, the sooner water gets extracted. It happens by chemical bonding between water particles and particles in the air. When wet glue has no surface exposed to air because of the assembly, it finds sponge on one side and wood on the other side. If wood is lacquered a small percentage of water may still be absorbed by the wood and bound with the particles making the wood. If not lacquered absorption is more relevant and on the long run water alter the outter layers of the blade (wood fibers starts to change shape at a microscopic scale). Moreover, glue penetrates more into the wood and the risk is that you have splintering when you remove the rubbers. The rest of the water is absorbed by the sponge. Here it finds gas inside the bubbles of the sponge and may alter composition of such gas. This is the case of a boosted sponge (either by manifacturer or by you). When this happens gas composition changes and sponge partially loses its mechanical properties as if it was unboosted or used.

When you leave the glue drying in a dry enviroment, it gets transparent in 5/10 minutes and fully dry in few hours. If you assembly with wet glue, drying process may last days. Honestly, I can't estimate what happens if you have the ball bouncing on the bat when glue is still wet. I guess you'll end up with some slightly uneven spots, but I'm not sure how relevant this imperfection could be for a player's sensitivity.

best explanation I have seen so far. makes sense to my brain haha.

 

[Cadoia]

Then it is in my head as well. Edge tape does make the blade face heavier. But, I do think it also dampens vibrations from the blade a little as well. The question there is, does the blade already give enough feedback that a little dampening is useful. Or is the blade already muted enough that adding more from the tape is detrimental.

And that is what personal choice is about.

ahaaaa...... THATS whats im feeling. dampening of the blade. makes sense. I said it gave a feeling of "muffled" during play. I was right.
I use viscaria and I like the flexible feeling.

 

[Cadoia]

Yeah. Blades sustain damage. I have never felt that edge tape does much to stop that. Also, I am okay with blades getting damaged. When I can't play with a blade anymore, I get a new one.

But, again, it is really a personal choice. I choose the feeling of the blade without the tape over the protection of the edge that a thin piece of tape might provide. That slight amount of balance shift to the handle, matters more to me than the protection of the edge. The slight amount of extra feeling also means more to me than the protection of the edge. And there are many many blades I can use. And, when a blade is damaged, I have a next blade to use already. That being said, I have been using the same blade since 2015 and it is still fine with no edge tape.

And, someone else has the perfect right to like edge tape. I also know people who put two layers of edge tape. I know someone who puts one layer of regular edge tape and then one layer of this foam edge tape on top of that.

I have a feeling, if I accidentally slammed a blade with that edge tape into the edge of a TT table while serving or something, the racket speed and the impact....that double layer of edge tape and foam edge tape would not do much. But I am still fine with the idea that one person likes edge tape and another does not.

It is just worth noting that the OP's reservations about edge tape may be based on something real and he may be fine without edge tape even if others like it. And his feeling about edge tape changing the feel of the blade, it is not just in his mind.

The OP, if he has the information can decide if the protection of the edge of his blade is more important, or if the unmuted feeling of the blade without the tape is more important. As long as he knows, the tape does mute the vibrations rather than having someone tell him it is just in his head when it actually is not. And, Lazer, I know it was not you who said it was just in his head.

And, I guess, it is worth noting, the amount the tape mutes the feeling of the blade may be tiny. One person may feel it and it might matter to him/her, and another might not feel the difference at all. So, again, that issue is about personal choice.

I glad to hear its not just in my head. thank you. To me the difference is big. I played fully taped. very muffled. then I simply ripped it off during game and it was like "I could breathe again". It opened up. I use Viscaria and like the flexibility. I thought it was in my head and I did the exact same thing with a new set up rubbers. taped. ripped it off. same experience.
And like you I dont care about the extra protection vs. the (for me) better feeling.
Its not even a subtle difference to me. Its quite obvious. So it was confusing to be told its in my head but since I had no way of explaining it I assumed it was true.
Wont be using tape ever again.

 

[dingyibvs]

doesnt the air in the jar dry the glue? I am imagining a glass jar with metal screw lid on top. you buy these in supermarkets with food inside etc.
I like the idea of the jar. if its what I think it is and it works.
just ordered those above sponges. thank you.

The air is in plastic bottles that contain them too. Yes I use basically a tiny mason jar, one where the mouth is just slightly wider than the sponge is long. Dipping sponge in it is easier for controlling the amount of glue than pouring it from the 500ml DHS No 15 glue's bottle IMO.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I glad to hear its not just in my head. thank you. To me the difference is big. I played fully taped. very muffled. then I simply ripped it off during game and it was like "I could breathe again". It opened up. I use Viscaria and like the flexibility. I thought it was in my head and I did the exact same thing with a new set up rubbers. taped. ripped it off. same experience.
And like you I dont care about the extra protection vs. the (for me) better feeling.
Its not even a subtle difference to me. Its quite obvious. So it was confusing to be told its in my head but since I had no way of explaining it I assumed it was true.
Wont be using tape ever again.

Yeah: how much you feel it is really based on the person. I know people, I hand them different setups and they don't feel any difference and I wonder how that is possible. Or how the guy I know who uses edge tape and then foam edge tape on top of it can't feel how much it changes the whole feeling and weight distribution of the blade. But, for him it is fine. And, not for me.

You probably like and pay attention to ball feel during contact and a lot of people don't notice or pay attention to it. So.....

And my saying it is subtle and a small difference, since some can't feel it, I was being diplomatic. But it is okay to trust what you feel.

BTW: my analogy with the tuning fork and the hollow wooden box vs the solid wooden box, and the hollow bodied guitar vs the solid bodied guitar....that also goes a little way to explaining why most TT brands make a hollow space in the center of the handle: it adds feeling because the hollow space lets the handle resonate more.

But a solid handle would add more weight to the handle and bring the weight distribution down closer to the handle: so, that is a dance. I like the weight more towards handle balanced. I like more feeling. I know people who like solid handles.

 

[Cadoia]

The air is in plastic bottles that contain them too. Yes I use basically a tiny mason jar, one where the mouth is just slightly wider than the sponge is long. Dipping sponge in it is easier for controlling the amount of glue than pouring it from the 500ml DHS No 15 glue's bottle IMO.

thats a great tip. also no need to clean the tip of the glue bottle each time. thank you.

 

[_ak]

what is rubber glue vs. WBG?

I have a can of VOC glue with brush from Ali. I've seen someone using water based glue on sponge and rubber glue on blade to reduce splintering and follow the pattern.

 

[Trevize84]

best explanation I have seen so far. makes sense to my brain haha.

Just one error: I realized I wrote "environment is less dry than the glue" I was meant to say "less wet" than the glue.

 

[dingyibvs]

thats a great tip. also no need to clean the tip of the glue bottle each time. thank you.

You can see the jar behind the rubbers here. Another way is to use syringes to get the precise amount of glue needed per layer. The main advantage of that of course is the precision. A smaller benefit is that you can use more types of jars as long as the syringe can reach the bottom of the jar. I tried using it with the big DHS No. 15 bottle and it was a mess.

 

[Cadoia]

You can see the jar behind the rubbers here. Another way is to use syringes to get the precise amount of glue needed per layer. The main advantage of that of course is the precision. A smaller benefit is that you can use more types of jars as long as the syringe can reach the bottom of the jar. I tried using it with the big DHS No. 15 bottle and it was a mess.

View attachment 29670

thats a great "operation table" setup you got there
Ill steal your ideas and try it out. thank you.

 

[Trevize84]

ahaaaa...... THATS whats im feeling. dampening of the blade. makes sense. I said it gave a feeling of "muffled" during play. I was right.
I use viscaria and I like the flexible feeling.

I'm not sure dampening is that much. I mean, definitely it happens for some extent. I doubt you can actually feel it. I even doubt even a recording apparatus can.

One way people classify blades is by the highest peak in frequency from the sound recording produced by a ball bouncing on the blade. I would do like this. I would record the shape of the entire recording (not only the peak, that by the way is the only thing I believe an average player can sense during gameplay). Then I would attach the edge tape, record again and compare. My guess is that shapes of the frequency spectrums show less than 1% difference. Just guessing I may be wrong...

I do agree on the weight change. Less than 5 grams. I don't know... I mean, it's a racket, it's not a rally car. 2-3 grams are likely less than the weight increase produced by the sweat absorbed by the handle.

I do see some protective value in the tape and at least at my level, I see more benefits than reduced performance. I see Timo Boll applying tape on part of the side where he knows he hits the table during FH pushes for receiving serves. He was (or maybe it was Ovtcharov) mentioning that tape slows down the racket, and I do agree for him weight is very important, even 1 single gram. However also Boll sees some value in not destroying the rubber in the middle of a match.

 

[Cadoia]

I'm not sure dampening is that much. I mean, definitely it happens for some extent. I doubt you can actually feel it. I even doubt even a recording apparatus can.

One way people classify blades is by the frequency of the highest peak recording sound produced by a ball bouncing it. I would do like this. I would record the shape of the entire recording (not only the peak, that by the way is the only thing I believe an average player can sense during gameplay). Then I would attach the edge tape record again and compare. My guess is that shape is same with less than 1% difference. Just guessing I may be wrong...

I do agree on the weight change. Less than 5 grams. I don't know... I mean, it's a racket, it's not a rally car. 2-3 grams are likely less than the weight increase produced by the sweat absorbed by the handle.

I do see some protective value in the tape and at least at my level, I see more benefits than reduced performance. I see Timo Boll applying tape on part of the side where he knows he hits the table during FH pushes for receiving serves. He was (or maybe it was Ovtcharov) mentioning that it slows down the racket, and I do agree for him weight is very important even 1 single gram. However also Boll sees some value in not destroying the rubber in the middle of a match.

that says a lot considering he gets them for free haha.
but yes I get it. maybe it IS in my mind partly then as to me its not a small difference.
I did put tape on 1/3rd at the risk areas and found that fine. but the whole blade. nope.