ITTF/WTT problems reported from players

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Some insight of players schedule for 2024 (Star Contender and up)

Jan 3~5 WTT Finals Doha
Jan 8~13 WTT Star Contender Doha
Jan 23~28 WTT Star Contender Goa
Feb 16~25 WTTTC
Mar 7~17 Singapore Smash
Mar 27~31 WTT Champions Incheon
April 15~21 ITTF World Cup
May 1~11 Saudi Smash
May 30~ June 3 WTT Champions Chongqing
June 11~16 WTT Star Contender Ljubjana
July 2~7 WTT Star Contender Bangkok
July 26~ Aug 11 Paris Olympics Games
Sep 16~22 WTT Star Contender Lanzhou
Sep 26 ~ Oct 6 China Smash
Oct 22~27 WTT Champions Montpellier
Nov 3~10 WTT Champions Frankfurt
Nov 20~24 WTT Finals Fukuoka
Dec TBA Mixed Team World Cup

This is a total of 18 events in 12 months.

Here are continental events.
European player min 4 events.

Jan 20~21 Europe Top 16
Jan 19~21 Pan American Cup
Mar 3~10 All African Games
April 11~12 Olympic Qualifications, Mixed Doubles
May 6~8 SEA Regional Olympic Qualification
May 6~12 Continental Olympic Qualification (TBD)
May 10 Oceania Olympic Qualification
May 11~12 Oceania Cup
May 12~14 African Cup
May 13~15 South Asia Regional Olympic Qualification
May 14~18 Americas Olympic Qualification
May 15~19 European Olympic Qualification
May 16~19 African Olympic Qualification
Sep 2~7 Oceania Championships
Oct 6~13 Asian Championships
Oct 12~19 African Championships
Oct 13~20 Pan Am Championships
Oct 15~20 European Championships

This is where 2 events a months (around 22 events in 12 months) comes from and no participation in national tournaments, clubs tournaments or even WTT Contender series.
and "back to back tournaments" over 4 times in a 12 month period.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

If each event will cost you USD3000~6000 (very conservative to include travel, wtt costs - entry/hotel/shuttle, coach costs etc)
18 event will cost you 55k ~ 110k

FZD earned 155k USD one year from prize money, if my memory is correct.
Net amount is closer towards 60~70% of that value (due to withholding tax) = +/- 110k
FZD was maybe 12~14 events if I recall, so maybe unfair comparison, but you get the point.

3000 is based on:
+/-1500~2000 for airfare
1000 for wtt cost (entry + accommodation for 5 days)
and 0-500usd for spending money

This is why Aruna is upset when he earns so little and then still don't get paid.

 

[kindof99]

If each event will cost you USD3000~6000 (very conservative to include travel, wtt costs - entry/hotel/shuttle, coach costs etc)
18 event will cost you 55k ~ 110k

FZD earned 155k USD one year from prize money, if my memory is correct.
Net amount is closer towards 60~70% of that value (due to withholding tax) = +/- 110k
FZD was maybe 12~14 events if I recall, so maybe unfair comparison, but you get the point.

3000 is based on:
+/-1500~2000 for airfare
1000 for wtt cost (entry + accommodation for 5 days)
and 0-500usd for spending money

This is why Aruna is upset when he earns so little and then still don't get paid.

You probably should not have used FZD as an example. CNT deal everything differently from all other teams.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

You probably should not have used FZD as an example. CNT deal everything differently from all other teams.

He was the highest prize money earner in that year.
so, everyone else will be lower than FZD

 

[IB66]

Take yesterday’s World Cup Finals, I watched it for free on YouTube via the WTT live stream. Perhaps, I’m in the wrong for watching for free??
How many of us watched for free??
How many of us would pay to watch the finals ‘live’ ?
How many did pay to watch live on TV?

How much are we prepared to pay?

Lets say the finals are viewed by 100,000 people, in Europe/US and it’s for a cost £/€/$ 5 pay per view.
I’m not sure if this figure is close to being about right, under or overestimated. I fear it may be an over estimation.
But thats possibly 500,000 £/€/$ revenue lost !!

So this is a question we need to ask ourselves!! Am I impairing the sport by watching events for free??
Until there is some trust in the governing body(s) WTT/ITTF I think there’s a lot of people think that the wrong peoples pockets are being lined, rather than the money being put back into the sport.

If the Pay Per View money was ‘guaranteed’ to go solely into the prize money pot, that would make a huge difference.

Other questions also raise their heads. Questions raised by the ITTF
How do we make TT TV friendly? Camera angles, jazz up venues, black and red tables Etc
Make equipment more appealing (rubber colours)??!! Change of game format - games to 11 Etc.
Make the sport easier. Is TT just too difficult for many people? Ban frictionless, larger balls…… has frictionless ban actually been ‘good’ for the sport??

Should the whole system be revised? Based on clubs rather than individual bias? National and International club leagues. With a handful of ‘individua’ events thrown in the mix each year?
aka football !!!

 

[Trevize84]

Take yesterday’s World Cup Finals, I watched it for free on YouTube via the WTT live stream. Perhaps, I’m in the wrong for watching for free??
How many of us watched for free??
How many of us would pay to watch the finals ‘live’ ?
How many did pay to watch live on TV?

How much are we prepared to pay?

Lets say the finals are viewed by 100,000 people, in Europe/US and it’s for a cost £/€/$ 5 pay per view.
I’m not sure if this figure is close to being about right, under or overestimated. I fear it may be an over estimation.
But thats possibly 500,000 £/€/$ revenue lost !!

So this is a question we need to ask ourselves!! Am I impairing the sport by watching events for free??
Until there is some trust in the governing body(s) WTT/ITTF I think there’s a lot of people think that the wrong peoples pockets are being lined, rather than the money being put back into the sport.

If the Pay Per View money was ‘guaranteed’ to go solely into the prize money pot, that would make a huge difference.

Other questions also raise their heads. Questions raised by the ITTF
How do we make TT TV friendly? Camera angles, jazz up venues, black and red tables Etc
Make equipment more appealing (rubber colours)??!! Change of game format - games to 11 Etc.
Make the sport easier. Is TT just too difficult for many people? Ban frictionless, larger balls…… has frictionless ban actually been ‘good’ for the sport??

Should the whole system be revised? Based on clubs rather than individual bias? National and International club leagues. With a handful of ‘individua’ events thrown in the mix each year?
aka football !!!

You don't watch for free. You are watching ads, it's not free. I watch soccer world cup final "for free" (with ads), I think I'm not willing to spend anything more than that for other sports.

 

[quanghuysk]

If each event will cost you USD3000~6000 (very conservative to include travel, wtt costs - entry/hotel/shuttle, coach costs etc)
18 event will cost you 55k ~ 110k

FZD earned 155k USD one year from prize money, if my memory is correct.
Net amount is closer towards 60~70% of that value (due to withholding tax) = +/- 110k
FZD was maybe 12~14 events if I recall, so maybe unfair comparison, but you get the point.

3000 is based on:
+/-1500~2000 for airfare
1000 for wtt cost (entry + accommodation for 5 days)
and 0-500usd for spending money

This is why Aruna is upset when he earns so little and then still don't get paid.

it's sadly damn correct. Most of them could not make a living back then playing ITTF tours, now with WTT it doesn't get any better and even worse with "force" play

 

[dingyibvs]

Most sports don't pay enough to support the vast majority of pro athletes, many don't even for top pros if you only count direct earnings. That's why Asian parents usually don't want their kids to go into sports

For example, for baseball, minor leaguers get paltry pay and a grueling schedule. For WNBA, you have superstars like Caitlin Clark getting like a $70k salary. In baseball, your hope is to become a major leaguer, then you can get paid the big bucks. In the WNBA, you'll never get a big contract and your hope is to make up for it by getting sponsorships, like Clark's $28 million deal with Nike.

I don't think it's realistic for TT to reach the level of being able to support star contender level athletes with a salary/tournament winnings, but it's possible at least as an immediate goal for the top athletes to become wealthy with sponsorships. So, the immediate question then is how far are we to this point?

How much did FZD earn from sponsorship deals? How much do top non-Chinese players like Timo, Harimoto, or LYJ make from sponsorships? Once we know clearly where we are at, and have a realistic goal for where we want to be, then we can get to coming up with plans to bridge the gap.

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

Take yesterday’s World Cup Finals, I watched it for free on YouTube via the WTT live stream. Perhaps, I’m in the wrong for watching for free??
How many of us watched for free??
How many of us would pay to watch the finals ‘live’ ?
How many did pay to watch live on TV?

How much are we prepared to pay?

Lets say the finals are viewed by 100,000 people, in Europe/US and it’s for a cost £/€/$ 5 pay per view.
I’m not sure if this figure is close to being about right, under or overestimated. I fear it may be an over estimation.
But thats possibly 500,000 £/€/$ revenue lost !!

So this is a question we need to ask ourselves!! Am I impairing the sport by watching events for free??
Until there is some trust in the governing body(s) WTT/ITTF I think there’s a lot of people think that the wrong peoples pockets are being lined, rather than the money being put back into the sport.

If the Pay Per View money was ‘guaranteed’ to go solely into the prize money pot, that would make a huge difference.

Other questions also raise their heads. Questions raised by the ITTF
How do we make TT TV friendly? Camera angles, jazz up venues, black and red tables Etc
Make equipment more appealing (rubber colours)??!! Change of game format - games to 11 Etc.
Make the sport easier. Is TT just too difficult for many people? Ban frictionless, larger balls…… has frictionless ban actually been ‘good’ for the sport??

Should the whole system be revised? Based on clubs rather than individual bias? National and International club leagues. With a handful of ‘individua’ events thrown in the mix each year?
aka football !!!

I would like to see greater granularity than that. Let's say for a QF or above match, if a player I wish to support is playing, if I can get an option of 4k60 with fallback to 1080p60 at worst, ad free, my choice of camera angles for $5 with at least 50% revenue going directly to the player, I wouldn't mind having that option. Plus, if my player wins, I have the option of giving a bonus of $1 or more 100% going to my designated player like a Super Thanks. All of this on top of the event prize money they would normally earn would be a huge incentive for the players.

 

[IB66]

You don't watch for free. You are watching ads, it's not free. I watch soccer world cup final "for free" (with ads), I think I'm not willing to spend anything more than that for other sports.

No money left my account, therefore it is free. you get to watch the ad's for free as well. !!!
Ad's are an annoyance, for sure, it's a small 'price' to pay, but the cost is not monetary to the viewer !!!

 

[zeio]

Take yesterday’s World Cup Finals, I watched it for free on YouTube via the WTT live stream. Perhaps, I’m in the wrong for watching for free??
How many of us watched for free??
How many of us would pay to watch the finals ‘live’ ?
How many did pay to watch live on TV?

How much are we prepared to pay?

Lets say the finals are viewed by 100,000 people, in Europe/US and it’s for a cost £/€/$ 5 pay per view.
I’m not sure if this figure is close to being about right, under or overestimated. I fear it may be an over estimation.
But thats possibly 500,000 £/€/$ revenue lost !!

So this is a question we need to ask ourselves!! Am I impairing the sport by watching events for free??
Until there is some trust in the governing body(s) WTT/ITTF I think there’s a lot of people think that the wrong peoples pockets are being lined, rather than the money being put back into the sport.

If the Pay Per View money was ‘guaranteed’ to go solely into the prize money pot, that would make a huge difference.

Other questions also raise their heads. Questions raised by the ITTF
How do we make TT TV friendly? Camera angles, jazz up venues, black and red tables Etc
Make equipment more appealing (rubber colours)??!! Change of game format - games to 11 Etc.
Make the sport easier. Is TT just too difficult for many people? Ban frictionless, larger balls…… has frictionless ban actually been ‘good’ for the sport??

Should the whole system be revised? Based on clubs rather than individual bias? National and International club leagues. With a handful of ‘individua’ events thrown in the mix each year?
aka football !!!

The World Cup 2024 thread turned into one about the problems from the likely non-paying audience (who also had a problem with the noisy paying audience), just saying...

 

[IB66]

The World Cup 2024 thread turned into one about the problems from the likely non-paying audience (who also had a problem with the noisy paying audience), just saying...

I had no problem with the 'noisy' audience, adds to the atmosphere!!

 

[IB66]

out of interest, any TTDers actually go to the final?

anyone pay to watch the final on TV or Media platform?

 

[IB66]

Olympics Games

Sep 16~22 WTT Star Contender Lanzhou

Sep 26 ~ Oct 6 China Smash

Oct 22~27 WTT Champions Montpellier

Nov 3~10 WTT Champions Frankfurt

Nov 20~24 WTT Finals Fukuoka

Dec TBA Mixed Team World Cup



This is a total of 18 events in 12 months.



Here are continental events.

European player min 4 events.

Hi Tony,

A European player MUST play 4 events minimum, is this the same for Chinese, Japanese, Korean players?
Are there other minimum restrictions regarding the number of events to be played?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Hi Tony,

A European player MUST play 4 events minimum, is this the same for Chinese, Japanese, Korean players?
Are there other minimum restrictions regarding the number of events to be played?

hi IB66

what I am saying is, above the 18 WTT/ITTF, you will have an European who will very likely take part in at least 4 more events that is not part of WTT/ITTF, as listed in my list. IE Europe Top16/European Championship/ European Olympic Qualification, mixed doubles qualifications.
These 18 + 4 does not include other tournaments the European player could take part in.

For other continents - you can count yourself from that list, it is clearly mentioned by continent.
And also, it does not include other tournaments (ie national table tennis championships).
So this just means, the schedule is cramp for 12 months in a year

 

[Lazer]

No money left my account, therefore it is free. you get to watch the ad's for free as well. !!!
Ad's are an annoyance, for sure, it's a small 'price' to pay, but the cost is not monetary to the viewer !!!

Indirectly, you pay for the ads. It’s built in the product price that you pay for when you (or soneone else) buy the product.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[dingyibvs]

out of interest, any TTDers actually go to the final?

anyone pay to watch the final on TV or Media platform?

I pay for YouTube Premium, does that count?

I would like to see greater granularity than that. Let's say for a QF or above match, if a player I wish to support is playing, if I can get an option of 4k60 with fallback to 1080p60 at worst, ad free, my choice of camera angles for $5 with at least 50% revenue going directly to the player, I wouldn't mind having that option. Plus, if my player wins, I have the option of giving a bonus of $1 or more 100% going to my designated player like a Super Thanks. All of this on top of the event prize money they would normally earn would be a huge incentive for the players.

That's why sports without a lot of Live audience, like e-sports, often use platforms like Twitch.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I would like to see greater granularity than that. Let's say for a QF or above match, if a player I wish to support is playing, if I can get an option of 4k60 with fallback to 1080p60 at worst, ad free, my choice of camera angles for $5 with at least 50% revenue going directly to the player, I wouldn't mind having that option. Plus, if my player wins, I have the option of giving a bonus of $1 or more 100% going to my designated player like a Super Thanks. All of this on top of the event prize money they would normally earn would be a huge incentive for the players.

I think they will take your idea, and tax 80% and give 20% to the player

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The winner won USD60,000 (SGD81,000)