ZJK: Screw You, ITTF!

[rainneverever]

ZJK vs YA was determined by ranking at the first place before the winner of each qualification group was determined. Chinese fans in hupu TT forum worked it out before any qualification group match started; it can be worked out for any World Tour. You guys and players really need to learn ITTF rules....

Basically ITTF or Korea Open organizers did two unsatisfactory "redraw" according to ZJK and then they stuck to the original plan.

The funny thing is ZJK's mysterious back injury. Who is lying? ZJK's team posted about his back injury right after his withdrawal and ONE MONTH after his withdrawal, ZJK said ITTF made it up and he boycotted Korea Open in fact.

Are there any ITTF people in the forum? Why not give people some explanations?

 

[drunix80]

ZJK vs YA was determined by ranking at the first place before the winner of each qualification group was determined. Chinese fans in hupu TT forum worked it out before any qualification group match started; it can be worked out for any World Tour. You guys and players really need to learn ITTF rules....

Basically ITTF or Korea Open organizers did two unsatisfactory "redraw" according to ZJK and then they stuck to the original plan.

The funny thing is ZJK's mysterious back injury. Who is lying? ZJK's team posted about his back injury right after his withdrawal and ONE MONTH after his withdrawal, ZJK said ITTF made it up and he boycotted Korea Open in fact.

Are there any ITTF people in the forum? Why not give people some explanations?

So, according to that logic ZJK also knew he would meet YA even before travelling to Korea and should have withdrawn with injury before reaching Korea.

And if he himself was the reason for redraw why would he be complaning it !!

 

[rainneverever]

Only after he and YA made it out of the group qualification and reached KO qualification stage.

Do you think ZJK knew he and YA both would make it before travelling? lol

So, according to that logic ZJK also knew he would meet YA even before travelling to Korea and should have withdrawn with injury before reaching Korea.

 

[drunix80]

Only after he and YA made it out of the group qualification and reached KO qualification stage.

Do you think ZJK knew he and YA both would make it before travelling? lol

At least, I could very easily make out who would win in a qualification group if I knew the group members in advance. It is no brainer unless CNT level has gone so worse.

 

[bircham boi]

Are there any ITTF people in the forum?

No. There's an unwritten rule that anyone pro-ITTF is not allowed to join a table tennis forum. There's also an unwritten rule that all forum members are expected to complain about the ITTF whenever they get an opportunity. Logic might suggest that it's impossible for an organisation and all its members to be 100% corrupt 100% of the time, but apparently that is the case with the ITTF.

 

[Atas Newton]

What warrants the satire in this case? It is very clear ITTF screwed up. If it was just someone's mistake with no malicious intent they'd have issued an apology and a detailed explanation to keep their name clean. What they do instead is trying to sweep it under the rug and never talk about it, even though one of the most prominent players of the game was affected.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Definitely. Ill share video here to zeio. thank u for these subs

Surely its of high importance for ITTF to keep zjk sweet and keep him happy so he plays in these events. He is the biggest attraction to table tennis

So Rain, according to you, this person has no clue on how ITTF works

to English audience:
- journalist claim ZJK was suppose to face a 2nd place from group - not winner
- after discussion, they did a draw, and zjk now faces LJK
- after further discussions, another draw, now zjk faces a non Chinese
- then again another draw - now YA
he did not say ZJK should face YA from "before they got to Korea" but after the 3rd draw.
maybe you know something that we don't know?

Rain, what is ITTF rules in this regards - since you so knowledgeable and spend so much time on all table tennis forums
I don't have time to check, so please share

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

At least, I could very easily make out who would win in a qualification group if I knew the group members in advance. It is no brainer unless CNT level has gone so worse.

hahahaha, i don't think you need to be any chinese fan on any chinese forum to guess that YA, ZJK and LJK will win the qualifications groups they in

 

[vvk1]

ITTF rules on draw/re-draws from ITTF 2018 Handbook (go to https://www.ittf.com/committees/umpires-referees/documents/ and click on "2018 Handbook", direct link https://d3mjm6zw6cr45s.cloudfront.net/2018/01/2018ITTFHandbook.pdf):

3.6.4 Alterations

​

3.6.4.1 A completed draw may be altered only with the permission of the responsible​

management committee and, where appropriate, the agreement of the​

representatives of Associations directly concerned.​

3.6.4.2 The draw may be altered only to correct errors and genuine​

misunderstandings in the notification and acceptance of entry, to correct​

serious imbalance, as provided in 3.6.5, or to include additional players or​

pairs, as provided in 3.6.6.​

3.6.4.3 No alterations other than necessary deletions shall be made to the draw of an​

event after it has started; for the purpose of this regulation a qualifying​

competition may be regarded as a separate event.​

3.6.4.4 A player shall not be deleted from the draw without his or her permission,​

unless he or she is disqualified; such permission must be given either by the​

player if he or she is present or, if he or she is absent, by his or her authorised​

representative.​

3.6.4.5 A doubles pair shall not be altered if both players are present and fit to play,​

but injury, illness or absence of one player may be accepted as justification for​

an alteration.​

3.6.5 Re-draw​

3.6.5.1 Except as provided in 3.6.4.2, 3.6.4.5 and 3.6.5.2, a player shall not be moved​

from one place in the draw to another and if for any reason the draw becomes​

seriously unbalanced the event shall, wherever possible, be completely redrawn.​

3.6.5.2 Exceptionally, where the imbalance is due to the absence of several seeded​

players or pairs from the same section of the draw, the remaining seeded​

players or pairs only may be re-numbered in ranking order and re-drawn to​

the extent possible among the seeded places, taking account as far as is​

practicable of the requirements for seeding by Association nomination.​

3.6.6 Additions​

3.6.6.1 Players not included in the original draw may be added later, at the discretion​

of the responsible management committee and with the agreement of the​

referee.​

3.6.6.2 Any vacancies in seeded places shall first be filled, in ranking order, by​

drawing into them the strongest new players or pairs; any further players or​

pairs shall be drawn into vacancies due to absence or disqualification and​

then into byes other than those against seeded players or pairs.​

3.6.6.3 Any players or pairs who would have been seeded by ranking if they had​

been included in the original draw may be drawn only into vacancies in​

seeded places

​

 

[Atas Newton]

The only relevant clause is

3.6.5.1 A player shall not be moved from one place in the draw to another and if for any reason the draw becomes seriously unbalanced the event shall, wherever possible, be completely redrawn.

Few points of criticism.
- who decides if an event has become 'seriously unbalanced'? Nowhere is it specified. If you were to try and excuse ITTF's inadequacy with the clause 3.6.5.1, then we can safely infer that ZJK vs YA somehow makes for more balanced a draw than ZJK vs LJK or them not meeting each other at all. Oh yeah, and it wasn't obvious even to the organisers, which is why they did the redraw TWICE. It's like they eyeballed the draw, went 'naah, let's start over', then went 'oh christ this is even worse!' and then finally were content with it. All without explaining anything at all to the players themselves.
- the 'wherever possible' part is merely a loophole to ensure that the organisers can redraw the whole bracket or any part of it. Yes, the rule says 'completely redrawn', but then it adds 'if possible'. What kinda rule is that? What qualifies as 'possible'?

 

[Bardock]

All excuses aside in such a professional setting redraws shouldn't really be used it just makes things fishy. If this happened in much bigger sports their would probably be lots of outrage.

 

[rainneverever]

https://cn.ittf.com/2018/08/korea-open-draw/
Matt Pound's response
We have been following the news about the Korea Open draw for the past week. Although we are surprised that the complaints came so late, I would like to clarify that the Korea Open draw, despite some technical issues, was like all ITTF events draws and was done transparently and according to our rules and regulations. However we agree with Zhang Jike that the ITTF needs to become more professional and this is our plan for 2021 when we launch our new fully professional tour linked to ITTF’s commercial rights becoming available, which will improve the overall global table tennis landscape.

 

[Atas Newton]

Bhahahaha, quote:

Mr. Zhang Jike was totally wrong with his accusations, but we totally agree with mr. Zhang Jike. And btw, here's the promo for our 2021 tour!

What a non-statement.

 

[ping fun]

Bhahahaha, quote:

What a non-statement.

Haaahahah . I can FEEL a hidden apology of ITTF from M.r Zhang Jike in this so called '' non - statement ''

 

[zeio]

I went over the draw for groups and prelim to see what exactly happened.

Here is the specific passage regarding the draw, taken directly from "2018 ITTF WORLD TOUR | SPORT SPECIFIC INFORMATION":

2.4. Draws
a. Main Draw
...

b. Qualifications Draw
The draw for the qualifications:
• is done 2 days prior to the start of the qualifications, after the entry cancellation deadline at 12:00 local time.
• is done according according to the latest available World Ranking at the date of the entries deadline.
• if played in Groups, players will be drawn into groups of three (3) or four (4) players per group, using the snake system (highest ranked player in the first group, next highest ranked player in the second group, etc.), according to the number of entries (the final decision to be taken by the ITTF Competition Manager). Players without a World Ranking will be drawn by lot into the free places in the groups.
• if played in Knock-out, players will be drawn according to the World Ranking.
• Is conducted according to the ITTF rules for that purpose but WITHOUT ANY separation per association.

c. Qualifiers & Lucky Losers:
• The highest finishers in each group who have not qualified for the main draw (in case of group qualification) and players eliminated in the last round of the qualification (in case of knock-out system) may be drawn into the competition as “Lucky Losers”, to fill any empty spots in the first round of the main event. The final decision to be taken by the ITTF Competition Manager.
• Preliminary rounds after the qualification groups may be used. The final decision to be taken by the ITTF Competition Manager.

I underlined the ones of particular interest here. The ITTF competition manager, Zena Sim([email protected]) of Singapore(from the Prospectus), picked groups, to be followed by prelim, for the qualification format. So, nothing wrong with the groups. The problem is the prelim. There's absolutely nothing written on how it should be done.

The only thing we have is Peng You's report:

ZJK should've been placed into the prelim bracket in sequence, according to the new ITTF directives.

For reasons unknown, the organizing committee decided to make another draw for the group qualifiers. This draw would put ZJK up against teammate LJK...

After some discussion, the organizing committee made another draw...This draw, however, was not approved. ZJK's opponent was changed from LJK to YA.

Going by that, here is how the controversy panned out:
1. Prelim bracket should've been done in sequence.
2. ITTF Competition Manager Zena Sim chose to make a draw instead. ZJK vs LJK. 1st change.
3. Said players noticed and complained. Zena Sim made another draw. ZJK, LJK, and YA vs foreign players. 2nd change.
4. But Zena Sim said oops, not good. ZJK vs YA. 3rd change.

Here's how the prelim bracket looks. I put the group number before the player's name.

It appears to me this is how it should've been done in the 1st place, filling the bracket in sequence. There're 35 group winners. Starting top to bottom, from 1. Yoshida Masaki to 16. Lin Yun-ju, then going back up, from 17. Morizono Masataka to 32. Liang Jingkun, then going back down, from 33. Dyjas Jakub to 35. Pucar Tomislav.

Here's what I think. It's likely Zena Sim made a mistake(1st change) but only realized it after the 2nd change, hence the 3rd change.

 

[drunix80]

Haaahahah . I can FEEL a hidden apology of ITTF from M.r Zhang Jike in this so called '' non - statement ''

What a joke. Saying something would change by 2021. Ha ha ha ha. Cant stop laughing. !!

 

[pgpg]

This whole thing puzzles me: so, you are basically telling me that tournament director can shuffle the draw as much as they want? It does not happen in my little local tournaments (outside of publicly posted policies of 'same club' separation in RR groups etc.), but ITTF Platinum Tour event apparently does not know how to make a draw. Nothing fishy about it whatsoever...

 

[zeio]

I checked all other Opens this year that had groups and prelim before the main draw.

Hungarian Open, Qatar Open, German Open, and Australian Open all filled the prelim bracket in sequence. I guess it's safe to say Zena Sim messed up big time and attempted to correct it with the 3rd change but it was already too late.

ITTF Competition Managers:
Hungarian Open and Australian Open, Vicky ELEFTHERIADE
Qatar Open, Didier LEROY
German Open, Karl JINDRAK

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I checked all other Opens this year that had groups and prelim before the main draw.

Hungarian Open, Qatar Open, German Open, and Australian Open all filled the prelim bracket in sequence. I guess it's safe to say Zena Sim messed up big time and attempted to correct it with the 3rd change but it was already too late.

ITTF Competition Managers:
Hungarian Open and Australian Open, Vicky ELEFTHERIADE
Qatar Open, Didier LEROY
German Open, Karl JINDRAK

Thanks for your time and effort in the research Zeio
its clear that someone is at fault and now with an all star complaining and media spotlight now sign on future tours, i'm sure some genius will come up with a plan in 2018 and we don't need to wait till 2021

 

[Persistence TT]

ZJK vs YA was determined by ranking at the first place before the winner of each qualification group was determined. Chinese fans in hupu TT forum worked it out before any qualification group match started; it can be worked out for any World Tour. You guys and players really need to learn ITTF rules....

Basically ITTF or Korea Open organizers did two unsatisfactory "redraw" according to ZJK and then they stuck to the original plan.

The funny thing is ZJK's mysterious back injury. Who is lying? ZJK's team posted about his back injury right after his withdrawal and ONE MONTH after his withdrawal, ZJK said ITTF made it up and he boycotted Korea Open in fact.

Are there any ITTF people in the forum? Why not give people some explanations?

jesus stop with the ghosts....there arent any