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Koto, Limba, Ayous, Kiri [HELP]
- Thread starter Matthias Ngai
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says
The sticky bit is stuck.
says
The sticky bit is stuck.
Well-Known Member
I’ve never seen Kiri used in outer layers, but it’s often used as the core. Light, but torsionally quite stiff. Not hard.
Ayous is used in the core too, but also as an intermediate and, more rarely, outer ply. A rather lively wood, on the soft side, and quite light.
Limba is oftenly used as intermediate or outer layer. Soft and relatively flexible, light. People like its feel of dwelland feedback, “caressing the ball”. Those not liking it might say it’s a bit mushy. When engaged, steadily delivers power.
Koto is often used as an outer layer, more rarely as an intermediate. Light, but harder and stiffer than both ayous and limba. A bit more explosive, people liking it talk about crisp and snappy. And those that don’t complain about finding it hard to get spin on the ball.
Anegre’s close to koto, but with a slightly different bite and feedback. I’m a huge fan of it for developing offensive players. A koto lover myself, I do see the merits of limba – and of hinokie, spruce, walnut, wenge for people of different touch, level, style.
Ayous is used in the core too, but also as an intermediate and, more rarely, outer ply. A rather lively wood, on the soft side, and quite light.
Limba is oftenly used as intermediate or outer layer. Soft and relatively flexible, light. People like its feel of dwelland feedback, “caressing the ball”. Those not liking it might say it’s a bit mushy. When engaged, steadily delivers power.
Koto is often used as an outer layer, more rarely as an intermediate. Light, but harder and stiffer than both ayous and limba. A bit more explosive, people liking it talk about crisp and snappy. And those that don’t complain about finding it hard to get spin on the ball.
Anegre’s close to koto, but with a slightly different bite and feedback. I’m a huge fan of it for developing offensive players. A koto lover myself, I do see the merits of limba – and of hinokie, spruce, walnut, wenge for people of different touch, level, style.
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Good resource:
https://www.wood-database.com/wood-finder/
Key points to focus on is the Janka hardness (hardness/density of the specific ply), elastic modulus (stiffness), and average dried weight.
Note that the feel you get from a blade is determined by the total construction, not just the surface layer. Our ability to "feel" the hardness is relative and because the wood is buried under rubber, the differentiation is not as precise as we think. Focus on the relative hardness between layers to determine whether a blade feels hollow vs solid, and the elastic modulus and thickness to get an idea of whether a blade is stiff or somewhat flexible. Note: the "perception" of hollowness is amplified with thickness, a 7.5mm limba-ayous blade will feel very boxy (like the Adidas C300), whereas the same design in a thinner construction like the Xiom Offensive S will feel less so. But that's topic of another discussion.
Try enough blades and you will find that there is a lot of homogeneity across brands and generations. ~95% of blades are made with ayous or kiri cores, which means its hard to achieve a significant degree of "solidity". My preference is for mono-material designs or blades with relatively hard cores, unfortunately both types are rare.
Try out a few different "types" to determine your preferences:
Medium outer-soft inner: Primorac, Nittaku Acoustic
Medium hard outer-soft inner: Stiga OC/Infinity, Yasaka Ma Lin Extra
Hard outer-soft inner: Any rosewood/Ebony blade
Mono material: 5/7 ply hinokis, old basswood or all ayous blades (CS7 Pro)
Medium outer-hard inner: BBC Hinoki Ghost, OSP Ultimate
https://www.wood-database.com/wood-finder/
Key points to focus on is the Janka hardness (hardness/density of the specific ply), elastic modulus (stiffness), and average dried weight.
Note that the feel you get from a blade is determined by the total construction, not just the surface layer. Our ability to "feel" the hardness is relative and because the wood is buried under rubber, the differentiation is not as precise as we think. Focus on the relative hardness between layers to determine whether a blade feels hollow vs solid, and the elastic modulus and thickness to get an idea of whether a blade is stiff or somewhat flexible. Note: the "perception" of hollowness is amplified with thickness, a 7.5mm limba-ayous blade will feel very boxy (like the Adidas C300), whereas the same design in a thinner construction like the Xiom Offensive S will feel less so. But that's topic of another discussion.
Try enough blades and you will find that there is a lot of homogeneity across brands and generations. ~95% of blades are made with ayous or kiri cores, which means its hard to achieve a significant degree of "solidity". My preference is for mono-material designs or blades with relatively hard cores, unfortunately both types are rare.
Try out a few different "types" to determine your preferences:
Medium outer-soft inner: Primorac, Nittaku Acoustic
Medium hard outer-soft inner: Stiga OC/Infinity, Yasaka Ma Lin Extra
Hard outer-soft inner: Any rosewood/Ebony blade
Mono material: 5/7 ply hinokis, old basswood or all ayous blades (CS7 Pro)
Medium outer-hard inner: BBC Hinoki Ghost, OSP Ultimate
says
Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
Honestly, not much b/w Koto/Limba and Ayous/Kiri, respectively.
The former pair is denser and thus harder and heavier, so it's used mostly for the top ply in thin thickness.
The latter is much less dense and so is used mostly for the center ply in thick thickness.
All in all, the consideration mostly comes down to stiffness and weight.
The former pair is denser and thus harder and heavier, so it's used mostly for the top ply in thin thickness.
The latter is much less dense and so is used mostly for the center ply in thick thickness.
All in all, the consideration mostly comes down to stiffness and weight.
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Dude, this is very true. Koto (viscaria) feels very direct and lack of dwell time, it's difficult to impart spin once the ball falls down too much from the peak bounce.
says
The sticky bit is stuck.
says
The sticky bit is stuck.
Well-Known Member
I honestly think that (a) this is level dependent (Timo obviously gets spin on the ball) and (b) while true(-ish) for lesser mortals, you shouldn't (just) attribute that to koto outers; the second ALC ply makes a world of difference here.
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