Cheating in Table Tennis

[DTopSpirit]

Hi all - here's the third in the series of table tennis video animations. This one is just as cynical and biased as the others (although not necessarily all my own views), and is on the topic of cheating in table tennis.

Cheers,
Greg

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Another good one. Thanks.


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[NextLevel]

"Is that Par Gerrell over there?"

Good stuff!

 

[Der_Echte]

Gunna watch this with a big bowl of popcorn tonite...am at work and will NOT bog network w/youtube.

Lookin' forward to it and Greg remembers from the about.com and OOAK days I totally share hiz cynical attitude and sense of keeping it real.

 

[Der_Echte]

Now I can say....

"Been to TTD, saw the vid, Got the T-Shirt"

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

"Is that Par Gerrell over there?"

"Godda go!"


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[Der_Echte]

... but I like making heavy topspin on the ball...

(Actually, in real life I certainly do, ask Carl to confirm)

I could give a rat's azz whether my opponent tuned hiz H3 or Tenergy. At my level, it is only a matter of comfort, convenience, and money savings. My opponent could tell me right before the start of the match he tuned the daylights outta hiz FH rubber and I wouldn't call him a cheater or report him.

I am currently using a 3 yr old sheet of Aurus on FH and a 4 month old Elpis on BH on my KJH blade in my sig... and I can STILL make heavy topspin and luv it totally. I don't need tuner on either wing with this setup, but If I had to (on FH only, I can use most anything on BH untuned) use H3 or a less modern rubber, I would likely tune it to get it to the performance level of Aurus. Tenergy right out of the package is 5x better performing than most FH rubbers I use, but for obvious cost reasons, I do not use it.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

... but I like making heavy topspin on the ball...

(Actually, in real life I certainly do, ask Carl to confirm)

On the FH side Der_Echte likes to block and let the other person hit themselves out or make a mistake but when he decides to loop he knows how to do that for sure. And if he is playing a pips player he definitely gives heavy topspin.

And if you hit anything anywhere near his BH he definitely spins the heck out of the ball no matter what you give him.

He likes to underrate himself. But he can play at a pretty decent level. He was playing a match against a friend of mine one of the times he came to NYC and in between games my friend was talking to himself and said: "His BH is just too good. You have to avoid it!" And this guy is a pretty good player with a nasty RPB.


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[Der_Echte]

On the FH side Der_Echte likes to block and let the other person hit themselves out or make a mistake but when he decides to loop he knows how to do that for sure. And if he is playing a pips player he definitely gives heavy topspin.

And if you hit anything anywhere near his BH he definitely spins the heck out of the ball no matter what you give him.

He likes to underrate himself. But he can play at a pretty decent level. He was playing a match against a friend of mine one of the times he came to NYC and in between games my friend was talking to himself and said: "His BH is just too good. You have to avoid it!" And this guy is a pretty good player with a nasty RPB.


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Ah Carl, now you done gave away my main tactics. Now I'm gunna havta actually play like a wildly attacking robot-nazzi player from Unknown_poster_SJ's nightmare.

You are supposed to help uphold my forum image of an ATTACK FIRST player. If the TT world discovers I have ALLROUND playing tendencies and actually like to block sometimes to keep it on the table and facilitate the other player making mistakes... I would lose all respect.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Ah Carl, now you done gave away my main tactics. Now I'm gunna havta actually play like a wildly attacking robot-nazzi player from Unknown_poster_SJ's nightmare.

You are supposed to help uphold my forum image of an ATTACK FIRST player. If the TT world discovers I have ALLROUND playing tendencies and actually like to block sometimes to keep it on the table and facilitate the other player making mistakes... I would lose all respect.

Hahaha. I just think, when you know you can beat your opponent you like to play with him the way a cat plays with his food!


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[Der_Echte]

You might be right about the part where I know (or at least think I know) about defeating opponent decisively) but for real, I actually LIKE to block (as an offensive shot) (and you saw that vs Master Chen, PP Holic, You, AND Ur RPB maniac friend)... but what the heck, we need to put a quiet damper on this thing worse than Hillary Clinton's multiple classified emails ASAP.

Even the last time I played vs year around a year ago, I waz SERIOUSLY out of shape, SERIOUSLY out of practice, SERIOUSLY much lower overall level than the first time you saw me (and even then I waz SERIOUSLY lower level than before) even then I was SERIOUSLY tired from a 5-6 hr prolonged drive that day and the prior day was SERIOUSLY smacked down at Boston TTC (I didn't win a single match except vs a 500+ pt lower rated player)...

You get the idea. The ingredients that day were not favorable to me and I already HAD to have lost at LEAST 100-150 rating points of true level by that day... AND the events I mentioned SHOULD have dropped me another level or two (at lest another 200 ratings points of level) so I shoulda been a 1500 level chump that day on NYC adventure V2.0...

Still I managed to play a similar level that you saw before. How the heck did that happen? It was a simple result of adrenaline fueled TTD/MyTT forum member meetup and I LIVE for such moments.

 

[NextLevel]

All I will say is that I need to be forced to avoid anyone's backhand. My game is about inviting a backhand battle. The way you make me avoid your BH is to go down the line. Otherwise, I will go to your backhand and exchange with impunity.

Pushing to anyone's backhand can be suicidal - it is usually suicidal in my club because my coach has coached too many good backhands. Here's one of them in action:

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Yep. I know a few people who are good enough on BH to have that as part of their game plan. They will use their BH and go at your BH. And spin the hell out of the ball and their feeling is their BH is going to be able to overpower yours so they will keep going at your BH. Guys who want to be Zhang Jike. hahaha. I have one friend who is like that who plays a lot like Der_Echte. But his FH has beast power. He is about 2200 when he is on. When he is not on, he can drop to about 2000.

My backhand is also a good few levels better than my forehand. But my forehand is starting to really improve in many ways except receive of serve. That needs a decent amount more work.

 

[Liten]

Great vid NL!
I always get surpriced how "still" people look playing. Then when I tape myself playing I see the same thing, it looks like Im standing still 60-70% of the time.
I know the guys in that vid put in a great effort, it just doesent look like the same amount one think it will look like playing it back.

Pretty weird serves from that guy in black!

 

[NextLevel]

Yep. I know a few people who are good enough on BH to have that as part of their game plan. They will use their BH and go at your BH. And spin the hell out of the ball and their feeling is their BH is going to be able to overpower yours so they will keep going at your BH. Guys who want to be Zhang Jike. hahaha. I have one friend who is like that who plays a lot like Der_Echte. But his FH has beast power. He is about 2200 when he is on. When he is not on, he can drop to about 2000.

My backhand is also a good few levels better than my forehand. But my forehand is starting to really improve in many ways except receive of serve. That needs a decent amount more work.

Join the club...

 

[NextLevel]

Great vid NL!
I always get surpriced how "still" people look playing. Then when I tape myself playing I see the same thing, it looks like Im standing still 60-70% of the time.
I know the guys in that vid put in a great effort, it just doesent look like the same amount one think it will look like playing it back.

Pretty weird serves from that guy in black!

I'm not surprised no, because I watch myself a lot. Movement in the sport is more than a little overrated at the lower levels. The reason better players do is is because their opponents force them to move. Also, they have played a lot and trained a lot of footwork so they know where to move to based on where they anticipate the ball to come to that gives them a good shot. But that takes a lot of training and time. If a good player plays you, they will move very little unless you make them move with a well placed shot. In this case, both players pressured their opponents sufficiently with their own shots and serves that the opponent mostly felt compelled to return the ball back to where it came from, which happens on about 70+% of good table tennis shots. It is on poor table tennis shots where people can go in either direction and movement is more often compelled.

When I noticed how little my opponents had to move when I was a lower rated player, I realized how overrated movement was. As I got better and better, I moved less and less. That said, I am now at the point where players have sufficient ball control to force me to move with good serve returns, so again, movement for me is becoming a bigger issue.

 

[Der_Echte]

NL is always a perceptive devil and his desire to improve and expose himself on internet and forums is honorable and unique. An excellent example.

 

[Der_Echte]

Yep. I know a few people who are good enough on BH to have that as part of their game plan. They will use their BH and go at your BH. And spin the hell out of the ball and their feeling is their BH is going to be able to overpower yours so they will keep going at your BH. Guys who want to be Zhang Jike. hahaha. I have one friend who is like that who plays a lot like Der_Echte. But his FH has beast power. He is about 2200 when he is on. When he is not on, he can drop to about 2000.

My backhand is also a good few levels better than my forehand. But my forehand is starting to really improve in many ways except receive of serve. That needs a decent amount more work.

Thanks for the credit, but honestly, few players are like me in that I lack courage sometimes and do not always be bullheaded attack with strong suit all the time and defend sometimes. The higher level players than me make better decisions and are more decisive in critical junctures, something that is hard to quantify, but easy enough to observe if you know what to look for.

 

[NextLevel]

NL is always a perceptive devil and his desire to improve and expose himself on internet and forums is honorable and unique. An excellent example.

Thanks for the kind words. Let me take the opportunity to add a few things for Liten about the players.

By the way, that is one of Alex "Breaking 2000" Polyakov's best wins. Wetzler is the current VICE-state champ of PA and I think he might have won last year, though we sometimes get the odd immigrant student show up and just take the money and run.

He has been as high as 2500+ with wicked forehand and pips play after some NA teams upsets, though he is in the 2200s now. That serve tends to mess you up when you first face it. Alex had the benefit of having played Wetzler and lost a very close, winnable match before this, so that informs some of his wiser and better decision making here.

 

[Liten]

Thanks for the info NL..
And thanks for the insight on movement. Never looked at it that way.
My regular opponant plays a real table-hugging-game and force me out to the sides alot! Sad part is I tend to move to slow plus the flor where we play is way to slick and that makes me stretch way further than I should.. This is murder for my knees and I often find myself getting closer to the table to "cut the ball off" than I whant.
I have a decent armspan and feel pretty confident most of the time, but its a constant battle..

I know that the match in the vid is at a high level, one might think "-hey, dosent look that fast or difficult" but there is tons of spinny balls going over that table!
If anything, these vids make me whant to practice harder and more!