Ideas for makeshift return board/spin "measurement" device

[NextLevel]

As an EJ who has also trained hard, I would like to apologize to all those rubbers I commented on when I was 1400 and didn't know how to loop per se. Those comments may be read by someone right now who thinks I actually knew what I was talking about but didn't know the rating level I was speaking to...

Seriously, I wish I could go back and review all those rubbers I gave reviews when I didn't have a real loop. Even the Baracuda when I use it now seems to be like a magic wand compared to how I used it back then. Thank goodness I never used Hexer back then...

 

[NextLevel]

I know that stroke in that video anywhere. Here is my first time trying out Hexer seriously. First 5-10 mins of this video.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Seriously, you should write your memoirs with the colorful life you have had .. and I am not kidding.

That would be pretty scary stuff. It could have the episode in the circus with the evil clown trying to get me fired for smoking--what is that stuff in the chocolate teapot called? Or when the BigWig from Ringling was going to interrogate me for smoking that stuff and I told the captain of the group: "cool, you mean all I have to do is say 'been there, done that, got the free t-shirt' and I can go home," and Monsieur Capitan said, "please lie. I neeeeed you here!"

No, those are really tame in comparison to some of the stuff that was going on. Let's just say that every single woman who was on the tour and married, well, by the end of the tour, they were with someone else. That includes the ones with kids.

Man....not even close to the craziest stuff. But I guess you can put a spin on everything to make it entertaining.

And I definitely won't tell you about my encounter with a 6'2" transvestite hooker in Mexico where I ended up having to take the youngest kid on the skate team to the hospital afterwards because one of the hooker's friends hit the kid in the head with a broken glass bottle.

But this stuff is nothing. You should hear Der_Echte's military stories.

 

[Archosaurus]

I think I accidentally my spin.

I took out another not so crappy premade but still premade I have (The pimple composition is not rubbish and it's not dead, so it spins a little nicer) and started swinging as hard as I can, trying to vary my blade angle to produce different contact.

Carl said my blade angle control is bad, so I decided to find out my habits. I found out that I actually very slightly OPEN the blade angle before contact. Most likely because I've been playing with dead shit rubber for so long.

I tried keeping the blade angle the same by force, and it actually made a slight difference. Now the ball rolls back to the wall and touches it after hitting it, although not as heavily as I'd like. A good rubber would probably give me the spin I want with my current touch.


Here's the weird part. I tried to swing in as unchanging a plane I can, producing as pure topspin as I can and grazing as slightly as I can while swinging as hard as I can. I used a bent arm stroke and whipped the wrist forward at nearly painful speed, if I hadn't been relaxed.

The ball hit the endline of the table, hit the wall, bounced off then decelerated halfway to the table, launched itself into the wall at a ridiculous speed when it hit the ground and got stuck in the corner near the steps, while it rolled up and down the wall, making a scraping sound. It didn't even bounce a lot after it slowed down a bit, it just spun itself to a stop.

I thought what the hell, I've only seen spin so heavy in CNT training videos when they miss shots and it goes into the soft barrier. Had to be a fluke.

I missed a few then landed another one like that. I tried for some time but couldn't replicate it for the life of me. So it was a fluke, but I didn't believe that was even possible with my equipment.

I don't think I will ever get so good to be able to replicate that on even 10% of my shots with this equipment, but it was ridiculous. Easily 10x the spin I normally put on the ball. The contact was very, very fast but I could feel a slight resistance when I hit the ball, so it probably barely grabbed on. The sound was not a crack either.

I really don't think that I could get that kind of spin even with good equipment using my normal slower strokes, so I did something very right. I'll keep trying to replicate it, then try to reproduce it regularly when I finally get my hands on good equipment.

I can produce a grazing contact now and choose when I want a cracking slap and a soft contact when swinging very hard, and there's okay spin too, but I'd really like to be able to always get this kind of spin.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Well, at least now you know what a loop actually is. Just think about doing that every time with better spin and speed. You'll get there. It is a learnable skill. But now you know more of why we couldn't take you seriously. It was obvious you didn't know what you were talking about. Anyone who could spin the ball for real knew you couldn't. But, figuring that out was truly worthwhile. I am glad we got you to that point. Good job.

 

[Archosaurus]

Well, at least now you know what a loop actually is. Just think about doing that every time with better spin and speed. You'll get there. It is a learnable skill. But now you know more of why we couldn't take you seriously. It was obvious you didn't know what you were talking about. Anyone who could spin the ball for real knew you couldn't. But, figuring that out was truly worthwhile. I am glad we got you to that point. Good job.

It's going to be hard to get more spin and speed. Both were far more in these shots than you think I'm capable of. They were more than I thought I'm capable of.

I'd honestly settle for half this spin if I could just produce it consistently. With this equipment, I think it's either low spin or extremely high spin and nothing in between.

Maybe in due time I'll learn, but I have a good idea of what it feels like. Just need to always nail the acceleration at maximum racket head speed.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Good technique gets you that acceleration without so much effort. By trying to learn without help from someone who knows what he is doing, it is sort of like you are trying to reinvent the wheel. What you described is an average loop. This is also why we said you need new equipment if you want to learn to spin.

If you take a video of Ma Long looping, at the point of contact you will see his elbow start breaking and what his wrist does. And you can also see the position of his arm and how bent his forearm is at the end of the stroke. Brett Clark's videos give great info on how to get that very fast racket speed.

Try that bounce exercise with your new premade racket. Lets see if the rubber grabs better than the last one. It probably does.

BTW: until you can loop very well with that soft thud sound it is not that likely that you will be able to make the pop sound while looping. Maybe in a few years we could revisit that.

By the way, this video has good information about FH technique if you can sort out what it means:

 

[Archosaurus]

The technique I demonstrated in the slow loop video and the one I was doing today are different entirely. I've watched all of Brett's videos, and I understand the concepts and can apply them.

I just feel that the rubber I'm using won't spin the ball unless I apply maximum force in exactly the right way. Table tennis is a very technique oriented game, so I am willing to accept that those shots can easily be performed by a better player, even with the same equipment. It's probably so.

Thus I need to learn how to consistently execute that contact with that force, and then optimize it. Preferably with a good rubber.


But, the point is that I'm getting somewhere. I'm not just mashing at the ball, hoping to magically increase my spin. I've found what I want to do, I just don't know exactly how.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Watch this video. Just watch Primorac's arm motion and tell me what you see. Lets see if you can see it. If you can do it, you will be able to see it.

And this:

But, the point is that I'm getting somewhere. I'm not just mashing at the ball, hoping to magically increase my spin. I've found what I want to do, I just don't know exactly how.

Is good. It may take a while but it is good that things are changing. Even if, not as fast as you think or as fast as you want them to change.

 

[ttmonster]

let me say this, if you have described the level of your opponents correctly , and if your technique is correct, when you hit a decent slow loop none of them should be able to block a single loop back. If that is happening consistently may be you are getting somewhere. The only other option to may be get an idea of how much spin you are generating is to film your loop from the side and see the amount of arc you are generating ...

 

[Archosaurus]

Carl, the forearm lags slightly behind the upper arm, and the wrist lags behind the forearm. It's because he's relaxed. It essentially creates a whip because they snap forward on contact without conscious action from the player.

monster, the arc on my slow loops is noticeable, and people usually push them off the edge, but I don't think they're that spinny. There is a pronounced arc more so because of the lack of speed, not because there's a lot of spin. There is some spin and the ball does roll back to the wall with some speed, but not 1/10 of what I achieved with the powerloops.

 

[ttmonster]

What is the situation on your plan to get a new rubber ? Were you able to convince your dad ? Man , you should get decent equipment asap. believe me I played with premade paddles since I was in school ( say 12 or so ) till when I got my first job , i.e. say around 22. I started getting good coaching in u.s. since say 2013. Believe me I will say I learnt 0.01 % of my skills when I was had premade paddles, you might be doing better, say around 10 percent when I had a decent setup and the rest in the last 2-3 years when I got pro quality paddles and coaching.

There is simply no alternatives to a good setup, the coaching , may be with youtube and videos you can supplement something but unless you have great playing partners who is going to coach you , you have to find somebody who is willing to teach you in person.

No amount of discussion or video analysis can replace that. To know is one thing and to do is another ...

Carl, the forearm lags slightly behind the upper arm, and the wrist lags behind the forearm. It's because he's relaxed. It essentially creates a whip because they snap forward on contact without conscious action from the player.

monster, the arc on my slow loops is noticeable, and people usually push them off the edge, but I don't think they're that spinny. There is a pronounced arc more so because of the lack of speed, not because there's a lot of spin. There is some spin and the ball does roll back to the wall with some speed, but not 1/10 of what I achieved with the powerloops.

 

[Archosaurus]

I understand.


I might be able to convince my dad. I have more than enough free money from my birthday for a 60eur setup. I'm looking to order the best one I can as soon as I can.

I will still keep working on my technique, though. Even if my setup is a premade, it does seem to reward good technique over bad technique. Probably nowhere near as playable as a good setup, but it's not entirely useless. Extremely hard to produce good spin with, so I am looking to replace it asap, though.

 

[ttmonster]

What is the situation on your plan to get a new rubber ? Were you able to convince your dad ? Man , you should get decent equipment asap. believe me I played with premade paddles since I was in school ( say 12 or so ) till when I got my first job , i.e. say around 22. I started getting good coaching in u.s. since say 2013. Believe me I will say I learnt 0.01 % of my skills when I was had premade paddles, you might be doing better, say around 10 percent when I had a decent setup and the rest in the last 2-3 years when I got pro quality paddles and coaching.

There is simply no alternatives to a good setup, the coaching , may be with youtube and videos you can supplement something but unless you have great playing partners who is going to coach you , you have to find somebody who is willing to teach you in person.

No amount of discussion or video analysis can replace that. To know is one thing and to do is another ...

Carl, the forearm lags slightly behind the upper arm, and the wrist lags behind the forearm. It's because he's relaxed. It essentially creates a whip because they snap forward on contact without conscious action from the player.

monster, the arc on my slow loops is noticeable, and people usually push them off the edge, but I don't think they're that spinny. There is a pronounced arc more so because of the lack of speed, not because there's a lot of spin. There is some spin and the ball does roll back to the wall with some speed, but not 1/10 of what I achieved with the powerloops.

 

[Archosaurus]

Well it seems my post got eaten.

So, have this edit I made. I might be able to convince my dad.

I'm thinking of buying a Stiga Allround Classic alongside Friendship 729 FX on both sides, in either standard or blue sponge, whichever is better. From TT11.

Experiences with the handles? I'm using flared now on all my blades, but I could try straight. What would be a good sponge thickness for me? 1.8mm? Blue sponge or normal sponge?

It'd run me 57.50eur (shipping included) which is quite a bit but it's a very good price for a solid setup, I'd think. Free lacquering and assembly.

Good idea/bad idea?

 

[NextLevel]

What is the situation on your plan to get a new rubber ? Were you able to convince your dad ? Man , you should get decent equipment asap. believe me I played with premade paddles since I was in school ( say 12 or so ) till when I got my first job , i.e. say around 22. I started getting good coaching in u.s. since say 2013. Believe me I will say I learnt 0.01 % of my skills when I was had premade paddles, you might be doing better, say around 10 percent when I had a decent setup and the rest in the last 2-3 years when I got pro quality paddles and coaching.

There is simply no alternatives to a good setup, the coaching , may be with youtube and videos you can supplement something but unless you have great playing partners who is going to coach you , you have to find somebody who is willing to teach you in person.

No amount of discussion or video analysis can replace that. To know is one thing and to do is another ...

So important it had to be said twice...

 

[ttmonster]

Great Idea !!! Go for it !!
I am one for Flared handles but it all depend on the handle size and your hands , but then @UpSideDownCarl has given the breakdown on Stiga blade handles somewhere, if not PM him or just wait he will be here soon ...

In your situation I would get max on both sides simply because it will last longer ... make sure you get the blade a decent table tennis blade pouch and take care of the rubbers , wipe it with water before you put it back in the bag.

Well it seems my post got eaten.

So, have this edit I made. I might be able to convince my dad.

I'm thinking of buying a Stiga Allround Classic alongside Friendship 729 FX on both sides, in either standard or blue sponge, whichever is better. From TT11.

Experiences with the handles? I'm using flared now on all my blades, but I could try straight. What would be a good sponge thickness for me? 1.8mm? Blue sponge or normal sponge?

It'd run me 57.50eur (shipping included) which is quite a bit but it's a very good price for a solid setup, I'd think. Free lacquering and assembly.

Good idea/bad idea?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Ideas for makeshift return board/spin "measurement" device

What is the situation on your plan to get a new rubber ? Were you able to convince your dad ? Man , you should get decent equipment asap. believe me I played with premade paddles since I was in school ( say 12 or so ) till when I got my first job , i.e. say around 22. I started getting good coaching in u.s. since say 2013. Believe me I will say I learnt 0.01 % of my skills when I was had premade paddles, you might be doing better, say around 10 percent when I had a decent setup and the rest in the last 2-3 years when I got pro quality paddles and coaching.

There is simply no alternatives to a good setup, the coaching , may be with youtube and videos you can supplement something but unless you have great playing partners who is going to coach you , you have to find somebody who is willing to teach you in person.

No amount of discussion or video analysis can replace that. To know is one thing and to do is another ...

So, for the last year, my life has been getting crazier and crazier--I know, who would've thought, right!--and it has been about a year since I did a session with a coach. I know tons of training drills and I am decent at sorting out drills that will help me improve skills I need to work on.

Most of the guys I train with are between 1500 and 2100 (USATT). So all of them can play somewhat. Some of them are decent. Interestingly, the ones who are lower level are excellent to train with because of their lack of consistency. Sometimes they try to hit the ball to the FH and it goes to the BH, sometimes they loop and I am like, "how did that have no spin!" The random element is totally accidental and it is worth learning to read and adjust to that.

However, for the first time in a long time I got to do a full on session with a coach, a guy who is over 2500 and can really help people improve their technique.

Sorry, there isn't much that can replace that kind of work. When you work with someone who can read what you need to work on and pull out training drills for exactly that, on the spot, those sticking points are going to go away a lot faster. You can't really get around that. Even though, off the court, you can still work on lots of things and on the court with training partners you can also work on lots of things.

 

[Archosaurus]

Carl, could I have a laydown on the Stiga handles?

I already have a case, and I wipe my rubbers, so that's no problem.

 

[SilentRain]

@Archosaurus

http://stigatabletennis.com/en/tech-specs/blade-tech-specs/

See the link and scroll down to see all the different handle types. I find that most people use 4(Master) handle types for FL which i find nice with my big hands. Don't know much of their ST handles but if its anything like buttefly's JM ZLC and TB ALC ST handles, then Im game.